You can't be Christian and a Libertarian?

[hazek]

OK, now please go to my first reply in this thread and reread it. Thank you.

 

[BarryDonegan]

First comment by Bob:

http://www.facebook.com/TheNorthwestReport

It sounds like he's questioning my Christianity because I'm a Libertarian.

Somebody better tell Pat Robertson!

 

[j6p]

Economic blog Portal

http://crashjpm.blogspot.com/

 

[Vessol]

Tolstoy..need I say more?

 

[jack555]

It's my personal belief that you probably can't.

I think it's because Christians as much as any other believers in a religion have a hard time from trying to convince others of their belief and have a hard time from judging others because of their belief.

I'm not saying every believer is like that but most are. It's inherent in their religion where nonbelievers are characterized as "lost", "evil", "sinners" and what ever else that their religions labels those that don't buy into it.

And of course once one of your core beliefs is a religion you are going to have hard time getting along with people that your religions throws those labels onto so you'll either try to change their beliefs in religion or avoid contact. Avoiding contact is okay and it's the libertarian way since you leave them alone to do as they please but it's not always possible. For instance they could be your coworkers, neighbors, family and in other social ties with you which you can't just break villy nilly. So since you can't avoid their contact you try to change their beliefs and if you fail those nonbelievers become a problem for you and you start to discriminate often infringing on their rights to try and make life harder for them and make them leave since you can't.

Like I said not all are like that, so don't attack me for my beliefs if you think you don't act like that.

This is painful to read. Your use of "probably" and "not all are like that" will help you see you yourself know that religion and being a libertarian are compatible.

 

[therepublic]

Well, If you can't be a Christian and a Libertarian...has anyone told Ron Paul he isn't a libertarian?

 

[zyphex]

Instead of opinion, how about those arguing that Libertarianism and Christianity are incompatible list some first principles of Libertarianism and Christianity that come in conflict.

 

[Jordan]

Libertarians understand that the two party system is just a way to keep people divided.

HOWEVER

Libertarian atheists nor the libertarian religious have yet to understand that their views about religion are just a way to keep them divided.

 

[youngbuck]

I'll give you an extreme example. Your soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who say they are Christians are not libertarians. Please prove me wrong.

Lol, you really don't know what you're talking about. How many of the soldiers do you think are devout Christians? You probably also think that Bush was a Christian...

 

[hazek]

This is painful to read. Your use of "probably" and "not all are like that" will help you see you yourself know that religion and being a libertarian are compatible.

The truth is painful.

I never tried to argue that Christians can't be libertarian but only that it's unlikely given the nature of their beliefs.

Lol, you really don't know what you're talking about. How many of the soldiers do you think are devout Christians? You probably also think that Bush was a Christian...

Just like youngbuck points out there are a lot of people who call them selves Christians, even honestly believe they are but are not also libertarians and perhaps not even true Christians. True Christianity most likely is libertarian but you can not forget the human nature and the way our mind works when you analyze a question like in the OP. Like I explained in my first post, many if not most Christians have a problem with those who do not believe and they often try to solve this problem in ways that most certainly aren't libertarian.


So to answer the OP. I think he is wrong in rare cases and right in most. The world is not black and white.

And if you still don't like my opinion on this maybe you should ask your self what's more important:
a) the way things are suppose to be
b) the way things actually are

 

[hazek]

Well, If you can't be a Christian and a Libertarian...has anyone told Ron Paul he isn't a libertarian?

I don't think he himself thinks he is. I always thought he labels himself a libertarian leaning republican.

 

[sailingaway]

I don't think he himself thinks he is. I always thought he labels himself a libertarian leaning republican.

Libertarians often call him libertarian and he won their presidential nomination on the first ballot. If you have a patent on the term, I'd like to see it. You have an opinion, and others differ.

However, Ron tends to say he 'loves liberty' and is a 'Constitutionalist', likely to avoid these arguments. I'm with him. However, you are defining away support.

 

[hazek]

Oh hell no I'm not. I don't care what he is, I only care what he stands for of which I like 100% of it.

 

[MaxPower]

To the contrary, I think libertarianism is the political philosophy by far the most compatible with properly-understood Christianity. Faced with the contrast between the State's use of violence or the threat thereof as its modus operandi and Christ's call for nonviolence, non-retaliation and abstinence from judgment of others, I find it thoroughly apparent that only an extremely limited State or none at all can be considered justifiable from a true Christian perspective.

 

[guitarlifter]

To the contrary, I think libertarianism is the political philosophy by far the most compatible with properly-understood Christianity. Faced with the contrast between the State's use of violence or the threat thereof as its modus operandi and Christ's call for nonviolence, non-retaliation and abstinence from judgment of others, I find it thoroughly apparent that only an extremely limited State or none at all can be considered justifiable from a true Christian perspective.

^^^ That.

 

[tnvoter]

my belief in Jesus' teachings are what lead me to libertarianism.

 

[muzzled dogg]

Libertarians understand that the two party system is just a way to keep people divided.

HOWEVER

Libertarian atheists nor the libertarian religious have yet to understand that their views about religion are just a way to keep them divided.

quoted for empasis

 

[outspoken]

I think the world really needs a book that seeks to unite the thinking of a true Christian with that of the libertarian thinker and philosophy. I'd love to get a few people/writers interested in compiling a book that does just that. I arrived at my Christian spiritual views though my libertarian philosophy. I was raised Catholic, grew to hate the Church dropping all religion for agnostitism, and am beginning anew with my spiritual faith in Jesus and belief that it is libertarianism that offers the best path in creating the highest conscious society possible as Christ initiated. I also value the contributions of other religions as a means of attempting to describe the level of consciousness beyond the 5 senses such as buddhism but believe that ultimately Jesus was most divine, the divine.

Any takers?

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

Here's something I've be rolling around in my mind lately:

"Sure you have free will but love and worship me or suffer eternal damnation in the fires of hell". Doesn't that make God the ultimate coercion, no better than a mugger who says "Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"?

Doesn't that make Christianity (or any religion that has some form of hell) based entirely on coercion and therefore unlibertarian?

 

[noxagol]

Here's something I've be rolling around in my mind lately:

"Sure you have free will but love and worship me or suffer eternal damnation in the fires of hell". Doesn't that make God the ultimate coercion, no better than a mugger who says "Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"?

Doesn't that make Christianity (or any religion that has some form of hell) based entirely on coercion and therefore unlibertarian?

I think that would depend on if what Christianity was turned into in its early years by the Romans is considered true Christianity. I would say no. I believe the only things a Christian should follow would be the teachings of Jesus and nothing else. Everything else, assuming Jesus was infallible, is from man and is fallible and not to be trusted.

From what little I know of Jesus, he totally sounds like a libertarian. He never used force to convert anyone to his teachings and he even saved the one prostitute from being stoned to death for her non-crime. Sounds like a lot of people here really. Granted, I don't really know all that much.