You can't be Christian and a Libertarian?

Can't get FB at work... Bob who?
He should know that JRR Tolkein was a devout Catholic with anarchist leanings.
 
who are they to judge you?

that's a no-no!

Not entirely.
Are we to judge people? No. But Scripture is crystal clear about judging aberrant doctrines and behaviors.
If Bob wants to go toe-to-toe about whether a Christian can be libertarian, I'm game. He'll get doctrinally destroyed, and since he won't have an argument, I will judge his position to be the heresy it is.

If he wants to say I'm going to hell because I'm libertarian, then that's judging. Likewise I would not say he's going to hell for his heresy.
 
It's my personal belief that you probably can't.

I think it's because Christians as much as any other believers in a religion have a hard time from trying to convince others of their belief and have a hard time from judging others because of their belief.

I'm not saying every believer is like that but most are. It's inherent in their religion where nonbelievers are characterized as "lost", "evil", "sinners" and what ever else that their religions labels those that don't buy into it.

And of course once one of your core beliefs is a religion you are going to have hard time getting along with people that your religions throws those labels onto so you'll either try to change their beliefs in religion or avoid contact. Avoiding contact is okay and it's the libertarian way since you leave them alone to do as they please but it's not always possible. For instance they could be your coworkers, neighbors, family and in other social ties with you which you can't just break villy nilly. So since you can't avoid their contact you try to change their beliefs and if you fail those nonbelievers become a problem for you and you start to discriminate often infringing on their rights to try and make life harder for them and make them leave since you can't.

Like I said not all are like that, so don't attack me for my beliefs if you think you don't act like that.
 
Last edited:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

I discuss these issues with my Baptist Pastor. I find he is very much in agreement.
 
we all may discern, warn, disassociate, or debate our life experiance with one another.

but i'm not cool with other people defining each other with the particular words, rhetoric, and personal world view they use when reaching out to communicate. most folks are talking about the same things, wants, and needs but the "groups" they cling to and the words they use don't allow them to hear each other
for example, a LOT of folks i meet call the.mselves republican-but they sound & act like democrats.
avoid labels when you can-they are instantly polarizing.

thats why he might say-do not call yourself (or anyone) anything!
 
It is absolutely false that you cannot be a Christian and a Libertarian at the same time. As a matter of fact, I'd go as far to say one can't be a Christian and a neocon or a democrat. I'm a Christian, and I'm a strong believer in the libertarian ideology. Christianity has been used before for personal gain. Just look back around the time just before the Lutheran Reformation. People were literally paying for their sins to be wiped away by buying a piece of paper. This is false practice and sinful, for God has given us our salvation through a promise, and it is not something that has to be earned. He just requests obedience.

Here is an argument against prohibition that I posted in an earlier thread yesterday, and I extrapolate to how the whole neocon or democrat ideologies are false and that the Libertarian ideology is a Godly path.

I agree that a major point to make to Christians that the prohibition is causing more harm than good, and it is more important to point out that it is theologically wrong to attempt prohibition (or ANY type of coercion, inhibition or oppression) in the first place, regardless of the outcome. Many Christians believe that the ends justify the means, but God calls us to have our means justify our ends. Does God want people getting high? There is theological evidence to thoroughly back that he probably does not, but, regardless of this, God doesn't call for coercion of his laws. God does want to see people being faithful toward him, but, just because one is not sinning by tangible action, does not mean that one isn't sinning in one's own heart. Faith requires to believe in one's own heart as well as act faithfully with one's actions. One may not commit adultery with one's physical body, but, if one looks onto another with lust, then one has committed adultery in one's own heart. What's more is that, once one stops watching, the people who commit adultery in their hearts will go out and do it tangibly. It is just as bad before or after stopping them from committing it, and it was wrong to try in the first place. Virtue cannot be coerced. It must be chosen. God has clearly laid out what ends he wants us to accomplish in this world, but, more importantly, is that we do it the way God calls us to accomplish these ends. We must show others that we are Christians by our love, not by oppression.

That's the message we need to be sending out.

As Christians, people cannot complete God's ends that he wants for us if they have to sin (thus showing a lack of faith) in order to complete those ends, for doing so is not completing His ends at all. God wants us to be faithful, and following His law is showing faith, for faith without works is dead. So we get that God calls us to action because of our received promise of a blessing. But being faithful involves following ALL of God's laws and not compromising one law to follow another, and God has promised that you will never have to do that.

I have other arguments as well such as big government is idolatrous or that having a big government creates a weak faith because personal responsibility to follow that faith is gone, meaning that one would no longer be faithful so as to honor God, but to avoid conviction and punishment. I, however, will save those for a rainy day. :)

Oh, and this can be HEAVILY backed by direct scripture quoting, I'm just being lazy right now. I teach God's word weekly in a local prison, and I also am the son of a Lutheran Pastor, so just trust me on this one. haha
 
Last edited:
It's my personal belief that you probably can't.
Couldn't disagree more. Christian libertarians are against government use to propagate Christian beliefs, but rather want private efforts to help enact change. This should make perfect sense, since government's nature is the use of force and thus against Christian beliefs.

Any devout Christian will agree that the ends do not justify the means. A Christian must be a libertarian.
 
Last edited:
One of my least favorite arguments is "you can't be a Christian if..."

How about you can't be a Christian if you go around judging who is a Christian?
 
Couldn't disagree more. Christian libertarians are against government use to propagate Christian beliefs, but rather want private efforts to help enact change. This should make perfect sense, since government's nature is the use of force and thus against Christian beliefs.

Any devout Christian will agree that the ends do not justify the means. A Christian must be a libertarian.

What amazes me is how Christian socialists fail to see that they are actively destroying Christianity by supporting socialism.
When you take the job of the Church and slough it onto the state, what reason do people have to set foot in a church to begin with?
How do they not see that this is the reason why so many American churches have devolved into being Jesus-themed social clubs?
Shouldn't they WANT to take on these jobs?
Like in so many other situations, they leave us with two choices:

-either they know this, meaning they are evil, and are attempting nefariously to maintain their poor-free, problem-free (and Jesus-free) social club, or
-they are morons.

I don't like it when nominal Christians force me to consider them idiots as the charitable explanation to their behavior.
 
Couldn't disagree more. Christian libertarians are against government use to propagate Christian beliefs, but rather want private efforts to help enact change. This should make perfect sense, since government's nature is the use of force and thus against Christian beliefs.

Any devout Christian will agree that the ends do not justify the means. A Christian must be a libertarian.

I'll give you an extreme example. Your soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who say they are Christians are not libertarians. Please prove me wrong.
 
Way to reclaim the Tea Party there Hazek. Go get em tiger!

*stares in amazement*
 
People who use definitions to control people don't seem very libertarian to me, but maybe I have the concept wrong.

Whatever. Ron and Rand are Christian. If Ron isn't libertarian, I'm not sure what about libertarian would attract me.
 
Way to reclaim the Tea Party there Hazek. Go get em tiger!

*stares in amazement*

See folks? This is exactly the kind of hostile behavior I had in mind. He doesn't like me because I publicly doubted his core beliefs so he has to resort to name calling and personal attacks. Very libertarian indeed.
 
I'll give you an extreme example. Your soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who say they are Christians are not libertarians. Please prove me wrong.

I'll counter your example with something outside of Religion... Lindsey Graham says he is a Republican. Please prove me wrong.

In his case, you obviously you look to the party platform, documents, and precedents that establish the foundation of the party. With Christians, you need to look to the original sources, including, but not limited to the Bible. Christians waging war simple need to look at the principle Ron Paul continually refers to: Christian Just War Theory. None of the politicians who wear Christianity on their sleeve want to debate Paul on this, because they know the Iraq war violated the principles contained within.
 
Last edited:
It is my firm thinking that Jesus was a libertarian. So, you would have to be libertarian to be a Christian I would think.
 
Back
Top