Y'all actually aren't voting hard enough.

[TheTexan]

That's not even my point. It is a touchstone of An-cap belief that democracy only runs one way, towards authoritarianism. Empirically it is wrong.

Yes Lenin and Marx all said Democracy would lead to communism. Turns out they were wrong about a great many things.

How are the roads in NZ?

 

[idiom]

With my private insurance, I can get a mammogram, and ultrasound, or almost any other test tomorrow. Tell me that happens in Great Britain or New Zealand.

You get it same day in New Zealand. You will even get a quote first, that is binding, because hospitals don't have exemptions from fraud here. I usually get em from two different private hospitals because my insurance provider isn't in cahoots with the hospitals. I can get the care same day, I don't have to wait til tomorrow. Or I can wait four weeks and get it "free" at a public hospital on presentation of my passport.

Mostly I just pay cash rather than go through an insurer though, because I only want to pay premiums for catastrophic shit.

Can you get binding quotes from hospitals? Can you go out of state? Can you choose your care providers separately from your insurance providers? Can you get just catastrophic insurance?

Can you pay 5 times less than I can for private care?

I am not saying Socialized healthcare is better, I am saying I have free market health care and you don't.

 

[idiom]

How are the roads in NZ?

The smaller the government has gotten, the better the roads get. Politicians have fewer things to focus on.

 

[ifthenwouldi]

It's almost as if the relative physical size and population of a nation affects its democratic efficiency. Next thing you know, somebody will be trying to convince us that the U.S. is too large and populated to be an effective republic. It's too bad no one pointed that out during the country's onset...

 

[idiom]

There is only one "land of the free, home of the brave"

And its america

This is pretty much the attitude that is the problem. Too many Americans genuinely believe they are currently the freest least oppressed people. They think nothing can be improved. Trump/Hillary is as good as it can get. No other country is doing better in any area. They believe they are not being scammed on a mass basis. They reuse to believe their doctors are extorting them, that their lawyers are bilking them, that their bankers are asset striping them wholesale.

That couldn't possibly happen in America.

 

[phill4paul]

That's not even my point. It is a touchstone of An-cap belief that democracy only runs one way, towards authoritarianism. Empirically it is wrong.

Yes Lenin and Marx all said Democracy would lead to communism. Turns out they were wrong about a great many things.

Well, here we come to the point of what is the shitpool which is the definitions of government. I actually took the time to look at N.Z. politics tonight and will spend a couple of days more looking at it. I can't say anything more until I've come to understand it.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

This is pretty much the attitude that is the problem. Too many Americans genuinely believe they are currently the freest least oppressed people. They think nothing can be improved. Trump/Hillary is as good as it can get. No other country is doing better in any area. They believe they are not being scammed on a mass basis. They reuse to believe their doctors are extorting them, that their lawyers are bilking them, that their bankers are asset striping them wholesale.

That couldn't possibly happen in America.

+rep

 

[euphemia]

Can you go out of state?

My insurance is employment based, so I probably could have almost the same policy. My employer operates around the world, and I would get care almost anywhere else.

Our Constitution provides for states' rights. That means every state can make its own law governing insurance. This is one of the things that should change somewhat. I would like providers operating in my state to not have to consider different law somewhere else. I would rather pay for what I need, not what someone in the same pool needs. Insurance is risk management. I have few risk factors, and I feel my premiums should be based on my risk as a nonsmoking, postfertile, nonmale.

 

[idiom]

It's almost as if the relative physical size and population of a nation affects its democratic efficiency. Next thing you know, somebody will be trying to convince us that the U.S. is too large and populated to be an effective republic. It's too bad no one pointed that out during the country's onset...

Fewer than half the states are bigger than New Zealand. Ergo in theory it should be possible to turn them around democratically on a local basis.

Maybe the bigger ones can be turned around, maybe they need federal leverage of the smaller states to change course.

New Zealand was the most free shit army in the west and is now pretty much the least. Not a shot fired. If we can do it, you can do it.

Well, here we come to the point of what is the shitpool which is the definitions of government. I actually took the time to look at N.Z. politics tonight and will spend a couple of days more looking at it. I can't say anything more until I've come to understand it.

Its Unitary and Unicameral, 120 people control the whole country. Its about as direct as democracy gets. The tricky part is the proportional representation combined with regional representation and the Maori seats.

 

[idiom]

My insurance is employment based, so I probably could have almost the same policy. My employer operates around the world, and I would get care almost anywhere else.

Our Constitution provides for states' rights. That means every state can make its own law governing insurance. This is one of the things that should change somewhat. I would like providers operating in my state to not have to consider different law somewhere else. I would rather pay for what I need, not what someone in the same pool needs. Insurance is risk management. I have few risk factors, and I feel my premiums should be based on my risk as a nonsmoking, postfertile, nonmale.

The one thing I forgot to ask was whether your insurance was tied to employment. Mine has never been. Frankly its kind of a weird concept but I understand the history.

One of the main reasons for federation is to make inter-state commerce easy. In a bigger market, a freer market, should be able to better cater to you as an individual and put you in a big pool of very similar cases.

Your health care is 80% government backed extortion. Its not free market in any sense of the term.

 

[ifthenwouldi]

Fewer than half the states are bigger than New Zealand. Ergo in theory it should be possible to turn them around democratically on a local basis.

That would necessarily require a decentralization of taxes, something that has not often happened on this planet without either bloodshed or economic collapse.

120 people control the whole country.

That is not sustainable.

 

[idiom]

That is not sustainable.

Well they get turfed out for the slightest infractions. They are not above the law. Even when they are doing a really good job they still get turfed out just because.

The US has 3 million people per Senator, we have 36,000 per Member.

Maybe it isn't sustainable, but at the moment its doing pretty well. It recognized left wing economics were failing and self-corrected.

That would necessarily require a decentralization of taxes, something that has not often happened on this planet without either bloodshed or economic collapse.

It may be possible to do it without decentralization, and it may be possible to decentralize it without bloodshed or economic collapse.

Revenue is already essentially collected separately by states and the fegov.

What is currently missing is a solid strategy on how to approach such a thing.

It is a few steps down the road from showing that we can effectively run states, this is the more immediate obstacle.

As fun as New Zealand is, with small government politics on both wings, it is far from being proof that liberty-based cohesive ideology can get shit done.

In fact it when or pols adhere too closely to their given ideologies instead of being pragmatic that they tend to fuck up the most.

 

[wmmonk]

Well they get turfed out for the slightest infractions. They are not above the law. Even when they are doing a really good job they still get turfed out just because.

The US has 3 million people per Senator, we have 36,000 per Member.

Maybe it isn't sustainable, but at the moment its doing pretty well. It recognized left wing economics were failing and self-corrected.

I think you just hit the nail on the head on why the U.S. won't self-correct.
3 million people per Senator. 36,000 per Member.

New Zealand has a population of less than 5 million?
New York City has a population of more than 8 million?

I don't have anything against New Zealand, and would like to at least visit one of these days.
I just don't think it's an apple to apple comparison.

Now, Vermin Supreme may sanction a full invasion because of all the sheep. We're gonna have to feed the zombies somehow...

 

[idiom]

I think you just hit the nail on the head on why the U.S. won't self-correct.
3 million people per Senator. 36,000 per Member.

New Zealand has a population of less than 5 million?
New York City has a population of more than 8 million?

I don't have anything against New Zealand, and would like to at least visit one of these days.
I just don't think it's an apple to apple comparison.

Now, Vermin Supreme may sanction a full invasion because of all the sheep. We're gonna have to feed the zombies somehow...

Its just something that hasn't been done before on such a scale.

On the upside, most of the states definitely are small enough to self-correct.

I see it as the most important and interesting experiment of our time

 

[wmmonk]

Its just something that hasn't been done before on such a scale.

On the upside, most of the states definitely are small enough to self-correct.

I see it as the most important and interesting experiment of our time

Based on your example with New Zealand's citizens to representatives numbers though, we only have two choices since that seems to be working so well in New Zealand:
1) People need to move to New Zealand to decrease our population
2) We need to get more members of Congress

Which, point number two, is something that some people think is one solution -
http://www.thirty-thousand.org/

 

[idiom]

Based on your example with New Zealand's citizens to representatives numbers though, we only have two choices since that seems to be working so well in New Zealand:
1) People need to move to New Zealand to decrease our population
2) We need to get more members of Congress

Which, point number two, is something that some people think is one solution -
http://www.thirty-thousand.org/

Well a House of 6000 Members would actually be manageable and smaller than a lot of churches. It would also become prohibitively expensive to lobby.

Returning the Senate to being appointed by states would also mean the senators only had a hundred or so constituents each, also making it very hard to lobby the Senate.

Both of these reforms would radically grease the wheels of representation. While one would require a constitutional amendment, increasing the size of congress takes only a single bill, or even a rider attached to the debt ceiling.

In the mean time most states still have reasonable representation at the state level, although probably still a bit slim. Increase the size of state assemblies and it will help get people used to the idea of a much bigger congress.

 

[Mani]

I definitely plan to visit NZ, check out the shire and see the goodly folk.

I know a couple people who live out there and love it. Just don't ask them about Australia.

 

[idiom]

I definitely plan to visit NZ, check out the shire and see the goodly folk.

I know a couple people who live out there and love it. Just don't ask them about Australia.

Holy Fuck are Australians culturally the biggest nanny staters ever. Australia is actually a really interesting contrast. They are often roughly the same as New Zealand broadly policy wise, I guess though similar pragmatism and pretty fluid democratic machinery, but holy hell their politicians are busy bodies at the local level.

If we have a parking sign, they have a parking sign with *six* supplementary signs underneath it listing vehicles types, special circumstances, details for each day of the week, etc. Its system wide. Just a tonne of god damn information you should be able to figure out yourself.

They also have a "political class" a hang over from having convicts ruled by gentry.

But they are good cunts.

 

[Mani]

Holy Fuck are Australians culturally the biggest nanny staters ever. Australia is actually a really interesting contrast. They are often roughly the same as New Zealand broadly policy wise, I guess though similar pragmatism and pretty fluid democratic machinery, but holy hell their politicians are busy bodies at the local level.

If we have a parking sign, they have a parking sign with *six* supplementary signs underneath it listing vehicles types, special circumstances, details for each day of the week, etc. Its system wide. Just a tonne of god damn information you should be able to figure out yourself.

They also have a "political class" a hang over from having convicts ruled by gentry.

But they are good cunts.

Some of the most attractive women I've seen have come from down under, but egadz they have Ferguson like parking fines that fund their government budgets, not to mention strict regulations all over the damn place on everyone and everything.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

I definitely plan to visit NZ, check out the shire and see the goodly folk.

I know a couple people who live out there and love it. Just don't ask them about Australia.

Oh noes, agenda 21 hobbit homes .