Wisconsin Senate PASSES Gov. Walker's anti-Collective Bargaining Bill

[Inkblots]

The plain fact of the matter is that all public employees' pay and compensation comes out of taxation - that is, using the the coercive force of government to expropriate money from private citizens. In light of this, it is absolutely right and fair that public employees should accept as part of their terms of employment certain restrictions upon themselves to prevent abuse of this power. This is why I favor the banning of public sector unions, and prohibiting public employees from organizing by force of law - if they use the coercive force of government to be paid, they must accept some coercive restrictions in turn.

If, on the other hand, they want to join the productive economy by working in the private sector, no one will defend their right to organize more strongly than myself. Private employees should have the ability to form and join unions, and work for whatever employers will accept their terms. Only those whose payment is compulsory, rather than voluntary, should be stopped from unionizing.

 

[madfoot]

Because I apparently haven't made myself very clear in the past few weeks, I'll clarify my position before I get off the computer. I'm not a fan of Big Union. I think they're lazy, inefficient, and corrupt. But I'm not against the very concept of unions themselves, and that includes public unions. I don't think, just because they're employees of the state, they should necessarily sacrifice the right to unionize. Public employees aren't statists.

If Walker was rational about this whole thing, and discussed reform rather than dismantlement, I'd be on his side with this thing. But his solution was like bring a gun to a knife fight; it was clearly not about budget, but about ideology. I don't respect that.

 

[madfoot]

The plain fact of the matter is that all public employees pay and compensation comes out of taxation - that is, using the the coercive force of government to expropriate money from private citizens. In light of this, it is absolutely right and fair that public employees should accept as part of their terms of employment certain restrictions upon themselves to prevent abuse of this power. This is why I favor the banning of public sector unions, and prohibiting public employees from organizing by force of law - if they use the coercive force of government to be paid, they must accept some coercive restrictions in turn.

If, on the other hand, they want to join the productive economy by working in the private sector, no one will defend their right to organize more strongly than myself. Private employees should have the ability to form and join unions, and work for whatever employers will accept their terms. Only those whose payment is compulsory, rather than voluntary, should be stopped from unionizing.

It sounds like you just don't like public employees, period. Which I sympathize from an ideological POV - taxation is bad, statism is wrong, etc. - but I don't think the ideological solution is always the best one.

 

[Inkblots]

It sounds like you just don't like public employees, period. Which I sympathize from an ideological POV - taxation is bad, statism is wrong, etc. - but I don't think the ideological solution is always the best one.

I note that you failed to respond to my point. If public employees collect their pay using the coercive force of law, how is it unjust that the coercive force of law should also regulate the terms of their employment?

If they elect to forgo coercion by working in the private sector, I will equally fight to stop the force of law being used to regulate their employment.

 

[silverhandorder]

madfoot here is a tip don't pretend or make people guess your positions. When you say things like not very libertarian like without backing it up concretely it pisses people off. It is quite clearly trolling.

Look I have no problem with lefties arguing here or even just people from the left that support Ron Paul. Just realize people will not agree with you on economic issues. Don't try to claim they are un-libertarian when to the contrary that is the libertarian position. If you are really honest work on building bridges where we agree such as civil liberties and war. On other issues be a bit more honest and try to observe forum etiquette.

 

[Ninja Homer]

Because I apparently haven't made myself very clear in the past few weeks, I'll clarify my position before I get off the computer. I'm not a fan of Big Union. I think they're lazy, inefficient, and corrupt. But I'm not against the very concept of unions themselves, and that includes public unions. I don't think, just because they're employees of the state, they should necessarily sacrifice the right to unionize. Public employees aren't statists.

Do yourself a favor and read this: http://mises.org/daily/5072/The-Political-Economy-of-Government-Employee-Unions

People on this forum generally make arguments based on sound logic and historical evidence. It seems to me that you're making arguments based on opinion and emotion. It isn't a fair fight.

 

[angelatc]

I wish the right wing was as reactionary as the left.

Remember how we all ran to DC and took over the Capitol when they shoved Obamacare down our throats? Me either.

 

[dealerjim]

....

 

[dealerjim]

I wish the right wing was as reactionary as the left.

Remember how we all ran to DC and took over the Capitol when they shoved Obamacare down our throats? Me either.

Unlike most of these liberal protesters, we actually have jobs to do and families to take care of. After all, somebody has to pay taxes so those protesters can get a check each week.

 

[devil21]

Seems they are not reacting well

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hu...isconsin-capitol-vastly-outnumbering-security

 

[Jack Bauer]

The six-figure proletariat will rise again! Walker has been warned!

 

[Lucille]

Seems they are not reacting well

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hu...isconsin-capitol-vastly-outnumbering-security

Misean wins the thread!

"It's hilarious to watch religious zealots attacking their holy shrines!"

 

[amy31416]

Unlike most of these liberal protesters, we actually have jobs to do and families to take care of. After all, somebody has to pay taxes so those protesters can get a check each week.

Weird. The liberals say the same exact thing about the tea party folks. Practically word for word...they're just referring to SS checks instead of public worker's checks.