Will the Libertarian Party Field A Candidate Against Presidential Candidate Rand Paul?

[torchbearer]

Justin Amash doesn't support baby murder, so the Libertarian Party probably doesn't view him as being an authentic libertarian.

why do you feel a need to lie?
the delegation has no consensus on the matter.
Ron Paul was the LP nominee at one time.
you are worse than fox news.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

apparently, libertarians aren't as superficial as you are.
they don't care what you do for a living, they care what your ideas are.
You are an example of the general populations superficiality.
An example why the LP will never win. the problem is the superficiality of the minds of people, not the LP running waitresses.

Politics is like any other endeavor. You need experience and qualifications to hold office. Asking for the votes of the citizens of a district/state/town is asking them to employ you for the job you are running for. The waitress running for governor of Kansas is asking the voters of Kansas to elect her to a position where she would be managing a budget of over $25 billion and oversight of 80,000 state employees. There is nothing in her experience, either political or in her career that has even a hint of qualification for the job. That is not being superficial, it's being intelligent.

 

[torchbearer]

Hopefully not

the nomination will happen as a matter of party rules.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

That's worked real well for them. They are 0 for ??? in the last 20 years.

I'm not defending their actions and I'm not sure if it is working or not. I (think) that this is a new strategy, I've only been associating with the folks at the NJLP for about a year but that seems to be the strategy.

And you said before that they should focus on the ground up. I agree with that.

 

[torchbearer]

Politics is like any other endeavor. You need experience and qualifications to hold office. Asking for the votes of the citizens of a district/state/town is asking them to employ you for the job you are running for. The waitress running for governor of Kansas is asking the voters of Kansas to elect her to a position where she would be managing a budget of over $25 billion and oversight of 80,000 state employees. There is nothing in her experience, either political or in her career that has even a hint of qualification for the job. That is not being superficial, it's being intelligent.

the people running for office are intellectually capable of defending your rights.
all the other crap is superficial.
if all the candidates elected were LP waitresses, you wouldn't have to worry about them managing a big budget.
it would be a really small budget. i'd donate a calculator to the cause.
Our representatives should not be our managers. This is where you are so wrong.
Its like, you think as a socialist thinks, but don't realize- you are a socialist?

 

[Christian Liberty]

why do you feel a need to lie?
the delegation has no consensus on the matter.
Ron Paul was the LP nominee at one time.
you are worse than fox news.

I'm not saying they're so superficial as to decide on one issue, but the LP platform is worded in a fashion that seems to justify a pro-choice position.

They say they "Understand the different views" but at the end of the day they defend "An individual's right to choose"... aka pro-choice.

Justin Amash doesn't support baby murder, so the Libertarian Party probably doesn't view him as being an authentic libertarian.

I have minor issues with a couple things with Amash, namely that he did say he would hypothetically agree to raise taxes as a "compromise" and that he has voted for sanctions. So he's not my perfect libertarian either. That said, he's close enough, all things considered.

Of course, some here will take my disagreement as an attack, but I'm not attacking Amash. I like Amash a lot.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I'm not saying they're so superficial as to decide on one issue, but the LP platform is worded in a fashion that seems to justify a pro-choice position.

They say they "Understand the different views" but at the end of the day they defend "An individual's right to choose"... aka pro-choice.


I have minor issues with a couple things with Amash, namely that he did say he would hypothetically agree to raise taxes as a "compromise" and that he has voted for sanctions. So he's not my perfect libertarian either. That said, he's close enough, all things considered.

Of course, some here will take my disagreement as an attack, but I'm not attacking Amash. I like Amash a lot.

Who gives a shit? Completely off topic.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm not defending their actions and I'm not sure if it is working or not. I (think) that this is a new strategy, I've only been associating with the folks at the NJLP for about a year but that seems to be the strategy.

And you said before that they should focus on the ground up. That seems to be their focus, but they are also running people for Governor and other important seats.

I lived in NJ for a lot of years and it was never their strategy before. Some maybe they finally have someone with a little sense there. The problem they have always had (and this goes for other minor parties as well), is they spread themselves too thin. If there are say 100 state rep seats up for grabs, they will run a candidate in every one that they can find someone willing to run, instead of logically looking at the most vulnerable seats (open seats for example), finding someone who has some political / business / community experience, pooling their resources (because they don't have many) and running to win.

 

[Brett85]

why do you feel a need to lie?
the delegation has no consensus on the matter.
Ron Paul was the LP nominee at one time.
you are worse than fox news.

Their platform contains a plank in favor of legal abortion, and that's an issue that Gary Johnson has criticized other libertarians on.

 

[torchbearer]

I'm not saying they're so superficial as to decide on one issue, but the LP platform is worded in a fashion that seems to justify a pro-choice position.

really?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Their platform contains a plank in favor of legal abortion, and that's an issue that Gary Johnson has criticized other libertarians on.

The word "Other" is unnecessary. Gary Johnson is a moderate liberal, not a libertarian.

 

[Brett85]

really?

Yes.

http://www.lp.org/platform

"Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."

 

[torchbearer]

Their platform contains a plank in favor of legal abortion, and that's an issue that Gary Johnson has criticized other libertarians on.

well, here is one for my state:

Union


Federalism
Louisiana is a sovereign State jealous of its territories and powers and zealously guards them. We have a reciprocal responsibility to our fellow States to bind the national government with the chains of the Federal Constitution. We pledge in this union, assistance to protect all from Invasion from without and to maintain republican government in our own territory.

International Relations
We jealously guard our national and state sovereignty against any attempt to institute a supranational government, organization, or instrument designed towards such ends. International relations should be conducted on a case by case basis only with relevant nations. We will not subordinate public money to foreign interests, nor interfere with the governing of, or initiate the use of force against, sovereign peoples. We encourage limited, legal immigration, for our general benefit.

Militias
Louisiana is responsible for maintaining the general militia for the protection of itself, the Union, and to execute the laws. Each able individual has the responsibility to be knowledgeable and safe in the proper use of force so that he may provide for the defense of himself, his family, and the People. To these ends, the individual right of each to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Laissez Faire Markets
All markets should be free of regulation and interference by government, using an honest weight and measure as a medium of exchange. All markets shall be kept free of any fraud and coercion. The free flow of goods, services and information among the several States should not be hindered.

Taxes
Taxation should be limited in its scope and light in its impact. Congress should be held to the constitutional restrictions on taxation in both form and purpose. Direct, apportioned taxes are preferred for both state and national revenue. Louisiana must ensure that the tax laws are not misapplied or improperly enforced to the detriment of the citizen. All taxation should be approved by a three-fourths majority of the legislature and three-fourths of the people. No tax passed for any purpose shall last longer than five years.

National Party Platform
We adopt, affirm, and agree with the planks of the Libertarian Party Platform insofar as they are consistent with and supportive of the concepts of limited republican government as espoused in the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution for the United States of America.

Justice


Citizenship
We hold that all Men born in Louisiana, or in any one of the several United States, now domiciled in Louisiana, regardless of race or gender, are Citizens of Louisiana, and enjoy all of the benefits, rights, powers, authorities, prerogatives, and privileges of a sovereign. At no time is any Citizen of Louisiana in any way subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, while within the territory of Louisiana.

Individual Rights
We affirm the principles espoused in the Declaration of Independence - that all Men are created equal, with inalienable rights; that the sole purpose of government is to protect these rights; that it is the responsibility of the People to alter or abolish their form of government whenever it becomes destructive of this purpose, instituting new government more conducive to their liberty.

Contracts
We uphold the right to freely contract with others outside of interference or coercion. Government has the obligation to enforce performance of private contracts, when requested by a counter-party, without regard to public policy.

Corporations
Corporations are chartered by government for the benefit of the People generally and no one specially. Corporations do not enjoy, nor should they be bestowed, the same individual and inalienable rights of Men. No Man should ever be deemed to be, or be treated as, a corporation.

Public Resources
Those resources, natural or otherwise, held in the public trust, are held so for the benefit of all the People generally and none specially. The holding of public resources in trust by government does not confer any power to government to restrict or otherwise regulate the use or enjoyment of those resources by any one of the people except so as to preserve its future use for all. Any Man or Corporation deriving profit from use of public resources shall owe a royalty to the Treasury, to be used for the benefit of the People generally.

Juries
All jurors have the power to decide both the Law and the Facts in every case. It is the responsibility of all jurors to serve as a check against overreaching government and find for acquittal if in their opinion the law or its enforcement is unjust. Juries must be given all evidence relevant to their decision, and they should be present for all proceedings affecting the defendant.

Confidence


Elections
All elections should be secure and free from tampering or fraud. All votes should have a permanent paper record, and a publicly accessible electronic record, and should be counted in each precinct in full public view. The process, machines, or software used to count votes, be they manual, mechanical, or electronic, shall be open to the public.

Accountability
All public officials, elected or otherwise are fully and personally, legally and financially accountable to the people. Non elected positions should be bonded, and All Officials should be subject to a Grand Jury of the People, assembled for the purpose, should they be deemed to have violated their oath of office, the law, or enjoy personal benefit while acting under color of law. All proceedings of government, in any form or fashion whatsoever, should be open to the public, either at the time of their occurrence or by publishing of their activities.

Preparedness
Government officials have the duty to maintain civil defense procedures and emergency supplies or supply networks, held in trust for the People. All due diligence should be exercised in anticipating contingencies and relief needs. In No case should the government ever hinder or prevent the People or any one of Them from securing their own personal Safety and Security or that of their family or neighbors.

Constitutions
Our Federal and State Constitutions are the supreme law of the land. They should be maintained as general, yet absolute temporary delegations from the people, of powers to various institutions of government. They should not be amended for light or transient causes, nor should their basic provisions be constructed so as to require amendment to assent to laws which would otherwise be in the purview of the Legislature or the People themselves.

Budgets
Government has the duty and obligation to spend within the means of the Treasury. Debt should not be incurred unless in dire emergency as invasion or rebellion or natural disaster as shall not admit of any other remedy. A full cash and accrual basis accounting of all Public resources and Monies shall be issued to the People no less than once per calendar year. Louisiana shall not accept or cause to be accepted, any Thing except Gold or Silver coin as a tender in the payment of debt as required by the United States Constitution.

Initiatives
We recognize the imperfection of vesting all power in government. We support the People in reserving their right of Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Initiative, and of Legislative Referenda. We also hold that our state constitution should reflect this right of the People, and outline a structure and guidelines for the People to properly exercise their power.

I posted this one because i was part of that epic convention that actually completed a platform without suffering from debate exhaustion. I was Vice-Chair at the time. (platforms are hard to pass in the LP- imagine the debate here x100)

and this is all the national plaform has to say:

1.4 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

that has been hotly debated- but at least within the LP, an honest debate can be had.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I lived in NJ for a lot of years and it was never their strategy before. Some maybe they finally have someone with a little sense there. The problem they have always had (and this goes for other minor parties as well), is they spread themselves too thin. If there are say 100 state rep seats up for grabs, they will run a candidate in every one that they can find someone willing to run, instead of logically looking at the most vulnerable seats (open seats for example), finding someone who has some political / business / community experience, pooling their resources (because they don't have many) and running to win.

This is the type of topics the party is discussing now. The president in NJ is a great guy, really a one-man-band. It's all voluntary, they have no paid members which is a big problem.

But from what I've seen so far with my time there they are thinking more like you are.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

the people running for office are intellectually capable of defending your rights.
all the other crap is superficial.
if all the candidates elected were LP waitresses, you wouldn't have to worry about them managing a big budget.
it would be a really small budget. i'd donate a calculator to the cause.
Our representatives should not be our managers. This is where you are so wrong.
Its like, you think as a socialist thinks, but don't realize- you are a socialist?

Oh let me guess you are one of the pie in the sky libertarians.

Well guess what, right now Kansas (since we are using that as the example) has a $25 billion dollar budget. You don't get from there, to a limited government without a lot of movement. Additionally, she would have to work with a legislature that, is not going to be made up with people that agree with her on all issues. I'm not a socialist, I am realistic. You don't go from $25 billion to nothing just because you think its the ideal way that things should be. And to be perfectly honest, look at history. Even in colonial days, and pre-1860 America, government officials came from backgrounds where they had experience and leadership.

But go ahead, keep running unqualified people for office. Keep thinking that Americans are stupid because they won't elect an unemployed welder as their next Senator. Enjoy your obscurity, because frankly I think you feed off it.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

This is the type of topics the party is discussing now. The president in NJ is a great guy, really a one-man-band. It's all voluntary, they have no paid members which is a big problem.

But from what I've seen so far with my time there they are thinking more like you are.

Maybe they found the notes from the meeting back in the 70's LOL

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Maybe they found the notes from the meeting back in the 70's LOL

Any relation to the assemblyman?

 

[FrankRep]

Yes.

http://www.lp.org/platform

"Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."

Well boom. The Libertarian Party just legalized murder.

 

[Brett85]

that has been hotly debated- but at least within the LP, an honest debate can be had.

If a large number of Libertarian Party members are pro life, I would think that they would want to just leave the abortion issue out of their platform and not take a position on it.

 

[torchbearer]

Oh let me guess you are one of the pie in the sky libertarians.

the only unqualified person, is the person who doesn't know the proper role of government. No matter how many large corporations they've managed.
We've been running this 'show' your way for at least a hundred years.
superficial bullshit is what we are all about now.

that is the reason for Rand's 'dap and dance'.