Why the H-1B Visa Racket Should Be Abolished, Not Reformed

[oyarde]

Does anyone really think jobs would go unfilled or undone without this program ? I am not seeing that .I ran many different large specialized facilities without ever using any and I have only been out of that for a year.

 

[juleswin]

I don't mind you "calling out" corporations for their "immorality". What I hate is when you support government power to infringe on my natural rights. In this case the right of a business to hire who it wants, which affects me indirectly because now I have to pay more for stuff.

What a irony coming from people who supported Trump in the election. A man with next to zero morals who would do just about anything to attain the almighty dollar. He outsourced production for his clothing line, palled around with crooked Hillary and rapey Bill, used eminent domain to boot old ladies out of their homes, owned and profited from casinos, used bankruptcies to evade paying his debts, worked with the mob etc etc.

People who supported Trump on this site shouldn't be lecturing anyone about the morality of elites. You lack the minimum amount of credibility need to have that discussion.

 

[kahless]

I don't mind you "calling out" corporations for their "immorality". What I hate is when you support government power to infringe on my natural rights. In this case the right of a business to hire who it wants, which affects me indirectly because now I have to pay more for stuff.

There is no logic to the argument we cannot find good people out out the 325 million people that live in the US. By your reasoning we should just open up the immigration flood gates to allow a billion people to come here to be slave laborers over Americans since Madison320 is effectively anti-American citizen.

Yep, lets screw over all the people that live here for that purpose for you and the elites regardless of the wide ranging ramifications. No your policy will not destabilize the economy or create civil unrest.

 

[kahless]

What a irony coming from people who supported Trump in the election. A man with next to zero morals who would do just about anything to attain the almighty dollar. He outsourced production for his clothing line, palled around with crooked Hillary and rapey Bill, used eminent domain to boot old ladies out of their homes, owned and profited from casinos, used bankruptcies to evade paying his debts, worked with the mob etc etc.

People who supported Trump on this site shouldn't be lecturing anyone about the morality of elites. You lack the minimum amount of credibility need to have that discussion.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It was preferable to over look Trump's immorality on some issues given those that oppose him were of greater immorality including those that promoted policies that favored foreigners over American citizens.

Since there were no other competing choices I would painfully make that decision again. Getting something rather than nothing is still better than the alternative which is the opposite of everything I prefer.

 

[oyarde]

Which tax payers? business people, shareholders, customers who get more affordable goods and services are tax payers too and I think they see an upside or else they won't be asking for it.

Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .

 

[PierzStyx]

So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

Does this epitomize the classical liberal idea of laissez-faire?

So the solution to having a mixed economy is to lean even harder into socialism and big government? Sorry, that is stupid. Immigration regulation by the government is nothing but socialism because it is the limiting of the free market through government regulations on the free movement of human capital. Supporting government regulation of immigration isn't just unconstitutional but it is socialism and if you support it then you are a socialist.

The rest of the article is equally idiotic. Workers willing to work for less is a feature of the free market that keeps production low and point of sale costs even lower. Calling to "hire/buy American" and prevent economic competition among laborers is the kind of protectionist bullcrap that comes spewing out of Bernie Sander's mouth than any supporter of the free market. Companies aren't using this as a system to take advantage of anyone, if anything they're using the only outlet they have to escape burdensome government regulation. You have a problem with the government? Then get rid of the government and stop trying to force your dieals and beliefs about how teh world should work on everyone else through it, otherwise you're just another Progressive.

 

[PierzStyx]

Response sin bold.

There is no logic to the argument we cannot find good people out out the 325 million people that live in the US. By your reasoning we should just open up the immigration flood gates to allow a billion people to come here to be slave laborers over Americans since Madison320 is effectively anti-American citizen.

What kind of idiocy are you even talking about?

Yep, lets screw over all the people that live here for that purpose for you and the elites regardless of the wide ranging ramifications. No your policy will not destabilize the economy or create civil unrest.

What a great example of doublethink. The only elites I see are the ones that favor giving regulatory power to control society over to a few politically connected powers and taking that power out of the hands of private people and businesses. In other words, people like you serve the needs of the elites quite well. Removing form the government the power to control who goes where when, why, and how would be shrinking the power of the State and taking power out of the hands of the elites.

 

[juleswin]

Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .

I sympathize with anyone in a situation you described where people's livelihood is dependent on one company that could go overseas(or something like that). But how is this any kind of reply to the question I asked you?

 

[PierzStyx]

Sorry but the stupidity of this article hurts my neurons. This part in particular.

So while public property is property funded by taxpayers through expropriated taxes; belongs to taxpayers; is to be managed for their benefit—at least one million additional immigrants a year, including recipients of the H-1B visa, are allowed the free use of taxpayer-supported infrastructure and amenities. Every new arrival avails himself of public works such as roads, hospitals, parks, libraries, schools, and welfare.

Ummm....H1B visa holders pay taxes. Many of them pay more taxes than the average native born American. And most of them send their kids to private schools because, frankly, American public schools suck. I can see complaining about immigrants using welfare or the public school system. But complaining about immigrants using "muh roads?" Seriously?

Okay. Substitute "tourist" for "H1B visa holders." It would be wrong to give tourists food stamps. But should you keep tourists off the roads? If they are driving, they buy gas and pay gas taxes. If they are paying someone else to drive, like an Uber driver, the person they hired is buying gas and paying gas taxes. Maybe you can make the argument that tourists are using "welfare" when they use public transportation so....ban tourism?

Really, anti immigrant conservatives are as bad as statist liberals. Once in a family law class the teacher brought up "octomom" (the lady that had 8 kids at once.) Most of the class was like "Oh....that's so terrible! That should be banned!" Mind you everyone was all for any type of "alternative" family. Two guys or two gals? Perfect. Family having 8 kids? Terrible! Their reasoning "They are using up our precious resources." I was like "But what if they aren't on welfare?" One particularly angry witch droned "I used to work in a public school and I saw how all these kids come in and they use this and that." so I said "And if the kids are home schooled?" She was like "They use our electricity!" So I countered "And if they are off grid?" Then she shut up.

I'm seeing the same thing with the anti immigrant crowd. Sure, I don't want people coming here and getting on welfare. But getting on our roads? Are you freaking kidding me?

Oh, AND THE ARTICLE FLAT OUT LIED BY STATING THAT H1B VISA PARTICIPANTS GET WELFARE!

Stupid article. Worst I have ever read on the subject.

In fact there was a study fairly recently that said immigrants pay as much as $2 BILLION dollars a year in taxes. And since people on visas are ehre legally they pay income taxes as well. This article is absolutely moronic.

 

[PierzStyx]

Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .

Blame the State. Minimum wage laws and business regulations have made it cheaper to ship jobs and production overseas. That isn't an immigrants fault. Your beef is with the government.

 

[oyarde]

Since americans are not very bright in general and buy most products made overseas why would you bring workers here ? LOL

 

[PierzStyx]

Another exaggeration about the opposition. The issue is really about the immorality of the elites which clearly is being ignored and their propaganda propagated here. Prior to the 80s they would be called out for their immorality and some corporations would actually serve the people here and their community equally with the quest for profits. But now it is solely about majority shareholder value over everything no matter the consequences and without any allegiance to the people of this country. God forbid you call out their immorality since people have now been brainwashed to believe that some how makes you against free markets, some how promoting regulations or a Communist.

No, what makes you a Communist and against free markets is calling for anti-free market economic protectionist laws that increase the power of the state to regulate and control the flow of human capital across international borders. In other words, you get called a communist because you're endorsing socialism, and the whole purpose of socialism is to lead to communism.

 

[juleswin]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It was preferable to over look Trump's immorality on some issues given those that oppose him were of greater immorality including those that promoted policies that favored foreigners over American citizens.

Since there were no other competing choices I would painfully make that decision again. Getting something rather than nothing is still better than the alternative which is the opposite of everything I prefer.

I understad, you had 2 bad choices in front of you and u have to pick one. Maybe the industrialists and CEO choosing to use foreign workers are facing similar dilemma? Maybe they are also facing multiple bad choices - lose money, go bust or look elsewhere other than the US for workers. If it is OK for you to make one bad decision, why is it bad when they do so?

 

[oyarde]

I sympathize with anyone in a situation you described where people's livelihood is dependent on one company that could go overseas(or something like that). But how is this any kind of reply to the question I asked you?

Well , it seemed to me you think it may be good for customers . I do not see that it matters . I do not think you will get a better product or a cheaper product .

 

[juleswin]

Best I can tell , people in the US are not buying many products made in the US . I am in one of the last few remaining areas heavily involved in Mnfg and there is only one Co here employing these people .

I understand your post now. Well, if the citizens in the richest country in the world aren't buying it, best believe that nobody else can afford it. I don't believe American's aren't buying products made in America. Most of the software (video games, computer programs, etc) are made in the US and many US citizens still buy those products.

Most of the H-1B visas go to computer, scientific/medical research firms. I also think fashion models is also among the top 10. These are in industries that sell massively to American citizens.

 

[tod evans]

Most of the H-1B visas go to computer, scientific/medical research firms. I also think fashion models is also among the top 10. These are in industries that sell massively to American citizens.

Calling computer games, research and modeling "industries" is really a stretch....

Industry has made tangible items throughout time.

And please don't try the data on a disc is tangible argument...

 

[oyarde]

I understand your post now. Well, if the citizens in the richest country in the world aren't buying it, best believe that nobody else can afford it. I don't believe American's aren't buying products made in America. Most of the software (video games, computer programs, etc) are made in the US and many US citizens still buy those products.

Most of the H-1B visas go to computer, scientific/medical research firms. I also think fashion models is also among the top 10. These are in industries that sell massively to American citizens.

Around here they are only engineers . The company that uses them just pays them less . The product will not be cheaper or better. I can see americans would have a tough time finding fashion models . I do not care about any of these jobs , I just see no purpose for the program nor any reason to support it .

 

[juleswin]

Calling computer games, research and modeling "industries" is really a stretch....

Industry has made tangible items throughout time.

And please don't try the data on a disc is tangible argument...

Well, what would you call them?

And yes, they all made tangible items that you can hold in your hand. A software that makes your car break system work well is sold with a car which is tangible, a game is tangible, a medication created by researcher is tangible and a nice looking jeans that you bought because you saw some sexy model wearing it on a billboard is tangible.

Yea, I think nobody would die if no new models were give a H-1B visas. But it is none of my business who a fashion designer chooses to model their design.

 

[Danke]

These arguments always revolve around reductionism to were we just need to get government out of this or that to solve the problem. But the realist know that that will not happen overnight. So as a practical interim solution, let's limit what we can do in the here and now. We know hospitals cannot refuse patients even though many patients have no means to pay. So maybe we should limit those who come to our country without means. (Wall anyone?) As far as the visa program, it has been shown we already have qualified workers here for those positions. But companies don't want to hire them. The result is We have more people unemployed and sucking on the tit of the government rather than being gainfully employed. Passing the buck once again to the taxpayers, not only in direct costs, but indirect cost of broken families, etc.


baby steps, to reach our goal seems more practical.

 

[TheCount]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It should be obvious by now that he is not, and was never, the enemy of your enemy.

including those that promoted policies that favored foreigners over American citizens.

Could you list for us these policies that favor foreigners over Americans? I can't think of any at the moment.