Why such little support for Whole Foods?

[amy31416]

Whole Foods about a lot more than just "organic". I've got one a few blocks away from my place in Miami Beach and a larger one right by my gym, and while I don't shop there for the bulk of my food (too overpriced when it comes to basic things) I do go there every week to get certain things. The true advantage of Whole Foods is the selection of stuff they have that the regular Supermarket doesn't. Cheese for example. Their selection is huge compared to Publix, and much better quality. Same thing with their selection of oatmeals, grains of all kinds, and rices. Their produce section is a lot nicer than Publix, and has a few exotic things you won't find at a regular Supermarket.

And while I don't see how life is worth living if you don't eat meat, the place is a gold mine for people who for whatever reason, choose to be vegetarians or even, God forbid, Vegans. They also have a relatively large wine selection for a Supermarket, and this is one area where they are cost competitive with other Supermarkets.

Agree 100%, their cheese selection is amazing. In regards to grains, if you haven't tried quinoa, you must! I made grilled shrimp, marinated in lime and ginger and served it on a bed of quinoa with cilantro and vegetables--it's amazing. And it's fantastic for you.

Just curious though, are all vegans apeshit and mean? And is it because they don't get enough protein and fatty acids?

 

[Ninja Homer]

Organic ‘has no health benefits’from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8174482.stm

That article has already been thoroughly debunked: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=202158

 

[jmdrake]

They all said the study showed no significant difference in health effects. Don't kill the messenger . Ask Dr. Dangour.

And if the MSM says it then it must be true. I'm not "killing the messenger". (Assuming that you aren't really planning to eat a rat poisoned apple). I'm pointing out that the "message" is bogus. The claim of organic food isn't that there's more vitamins in it but that there are less toxins. The stupid article you posted totally ignored that.

 

[Ninja Homer]

I do think that a lot of the prepackaged organic food isn't really all that much better for you than the regular stuff, but I know just from the flavor and texture of home-grown organic stuff that I produce that it tastes a heck of a lot better than big-ag produce. If you ever taste free-range chicken vs. the mass-produced stuff, the difference is night and day.

Organic stuff may or may not taste better than the big-ag produced vegetables, it depends on the crop, the soil conditions, when it was harvested, how it was transported and for how long. The big-ag stuff is not bred for flavor or nutrition, it's bred for shelf-life and hardiness, organic generally is not.

I grew some lettuce this year that tasted a bit "off." My sister-in-law's father, who is pretty savvy about this stuff, told me that the soil I grew it in was nutrient deficient--and he's probably right. So, at the end of this year, I'll be amending that spot with manure, peat moss and compost. Farming and gardening is still one huge experiment, in my opinion.

You nailed it. The biggest differences in taste and nutrition are in meat and dairy.

I've done my shopping, and I can now get all organic meats for cheaper than the crap you find at the local grocery store. The trick is to buy in bulk directly from the farm. I can get half a cow's worth of beef for under $2.50/pound, and that's including ALL cuts, not just ground beef. Whole or half hogs are around $2.25/pound (again, all cuts). Whole chickens are $2.75/pound. They're all portioned, vacuum packed, and frozen, so they last a damn long time. I get some awesome Amish eggs for $1.75/dozen. I can get organic raw milk for $5/gallon.

When I first switched to organic and was buying from an organic grocery like Whole Foods, it was still cheaper over all than when I was eating conventional foods. The food was more expensive, but I stopped eating out as often, stopped eating fast food, stopped drinking soda (although I do still enjoy a little cola with my bourbon ), and stopped eating as much junk food. Now that I've found cheap sources for meat and dairy, and I get most of my veggies from the local farmer's market (when it's in season) it's a hell of a lot cheaper then what I used to spend on food.

After I started practicing alternative health, and hadn't had so much as a cold for a couple years, I realized there was no point to having the full coverage health care I was paying for. Drop that, and get some cheap health insurance with a high deductible in case of emergencies and freak accidents, and that's when the real savings start kicking in.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

Ya, lets soak the ground in a bunch of chemicals, that's going to be real sustainable We won't need even more dangerous chemicals later, who cares

Organic farming is about feeding the soil. The soil feeds the plants. That s how we have been farming for fucking 5,000 years, then you come along and try to tell me that it is wrong, and this new modern method that completely destroys the soil in the long run is so much better.. Give me a break.

Non-organic farming is about using chemicals to directly feed the plants. It is bad for the environment, and it goes against property rights.

Dude, they use TONS of chemicals in organic farming. Most of which are MORE harmful because they refuse to use synthetics fertilizers or pesticides. This is one of the biggest lies about organic. People actually believe they are not using chemicals and pesticides. Do some research.

 

[Bucjason]

Dude, they use TONS of chemicals in organic farming. Most of which are MORE harmful because they refuse to use synthetics fertilizers or pesticides. This is one of the biggest lies about organic. People actually believe they are not using chemicals and pesticides. Do some research.

Really . I'd rather a little pesticide than to bite into a worm the next time i eat an apple.....

 

[amy31416]

Really . I'd rather a little pesticide than to bite into a worm the next time i eat an apple.....

What are ya? Some sorta smarmy vegan?

Worms are an excellent source of protein, and you should have to pay extra for them! You could use it for fishing, compost, start a worm farm...

Seriously though, I haven't seen a significant different in the number of bugs on organic vs. inorganic.

 

[SooperDave]

re: Organic ‘has no health benefits’ from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8174482.stm

of course the nutritional value is similar, but it's the chemicals and drugs which are used that becomes concerning

 

[dgr]

I checked the store map, there a 4 stores in my state, all but one are in solid liberal areas, and the other is in the richest area of the city. So it would seem he opposes his shopping base.
In trying to get people in my area to boycott Concord Mills, for throwing out Truth Warrior, they were shocked that I wouold want to harm the merchants for their landlords actions, well I didn't see any of the merchants coming to TW defense so they are silently appeasing their master, and don't deserve my money.
As for Whole foods, like there people are giong to shop anywhere else, I'll bet they will be all talk and no action

 

[dannno]

Dude, they use TONS of chemicals in organic farming. Most of which are MORE harmful because they refuse to use synthetics fertilizers or pesticides. This is one of the biggest lies about organic. People actually believe they are not using chemicals and pesticides. Do some research.

Uhh, not the organic farms I've seen. Most organic farms are small family farms. They use compost and manuere for their fertilizer, and things like neem oil for pest control. You can also grow certain plants near other plants to keep away pests. It's amazing what you can do without a bunch of chemicals when you combine the knowledge of farmers across the globe.

If they are using chemicals then it isn't organic, I don't fucking care who is calling it organic, they are wrong. If the USDA made it OK for "organic" farms to use chemicals, then the USDA doesn't have the proper definition of organic. That is why we need the free market to step in here so we can get some real information about our food, not the information from the establishment that bucjason seems to worship so much.

Look, mainstream grocery stores have organic food now (i.e. Vons).. which means that there ARE big corporations growing organic food.. but I don't BUY organic food at Vons or any of those places. I try to stay local.

I'm sure you can come up with some information about these sleezy organic farms that are selling to the likes of Vons, but you aren't going to convince me to buy your trashy conventionally grown bullshit using synthetic fertilizers and harmful pesticides.

 

[paulitics]

You nailed it. The biggest differences in taste and nutrition are in meat and dairy.

I've done my shopping, and I can now get all organic meats for cheaper than the crap you find at the local grocery store. The trick is to buy in bulk directly from the farm. I can get half a cow's worth of beef for under $2.50/pound, and that's including ALL cuts, not just ground beef. Whole or half hogs are around $2.25/pound (again, all cuts). Whole chickens are $2.75/pound. They're all portioned, vacuum packed, and frozen, so they last a damn long time. I get some awesome Amish eggs for $1.75/dozen. I can get organic raw milk for $5/gallon.

When I first switched to organic and was buying from an organic grocery like Whole Foods, it was still cheaper over all than when I was eating conventional foods. The food was more expensive, but I stopped eating out as often, stopped eating fast food, stopped drinking soda (although I do still enjoy a little cola with my bourbon ), and stopped eating as much junk food. Now that I've found cheap sources for meat and dairy, and I get most of my veggies from the local farmer's market (when it's in season) it's a hell of a lot cheaper then what I used to spend on food.

After I started practicing alternative health, and hadn't had so much as a cold for a couple years, I realized there was no point to having the full coverage health care I was paying for. Drop that, and get some cheap health insurance with a high deductible in case of emergencies and freak accidents, and that's when the real savings start kicking in.

You one of them smart people, aint ya.

 

[libertarian4321]

The CEO of Whole Foods shoots off his mouth, catches heck for it, and I'm supposed to go buy the overpriced stuff at his stores?

I don't think so.

He knew what he was doing, he certainly must have been savvy enough to know he'd get backlash. Its not my problem.

 

[Natalie]

What the hell are you talking about??? Do you even know what organic food is?!?!? As I said before, it's the food we've been eating for the last 5,000 years!! The ignorance here astounds me.

I have been eating organic for years, I assure you that the taste of organic food is generally better than the watery, stale, tasteless grocery store food grown with toxic chemicals.

I guess some people just prefer the taste of chemicals.

 

[Natalie]

I tried to shop at Whole Foods for a little while, but it was too expensive, so I switched back to regular grocery stores.

 

[dannno]

The CEO of Whole Foods shoots off his mouth, catches heck for it, and I'm supposed to go buy the overpriced stuff at his stores?

I don't think so.

He knew what he was doing, he certainly must have been savvy enough to know he'd get backlash. Its not my problem.

He didn't shoot off his mouth, he espoused free market ideals.. and that's pretty friggin brave of him considering his customer base is generally to the left.

His food is not overpriced... his competition has underpriced food because it is SUBSIDIZED by the government, and you help support those subsidized assholes which leads to more lobbying and more subsidies and more taxes. Thanks a fucking lot.

It's amazing how little some libertarians know about what they are paying for things. Some just think that cheaper is better, and they don't put the quality of product or the effects of manufacturing the product into the equation at all. These are the type of libertarians who make people in our movement look like a bunch of selfish assholes.

 

[phill4paul]

If there were a whole foods in my area I would support it. I'm not gonna get into the health aspect, but the taste of organics are much better.
So instead I support the local growers through the community market(when I don't grow it myself). Also there is an organic "beef farm" that, frankly, is a much better tasting beef. The hamburger and steaks from them are the top choice hands down. Even the local meat market that is not organic has better cuts for a fraction over the cost of grocery store beef.

 

[BenIsForRon]

If there were a whole foods in my area I would support it. I'm not gonna get into the health aspect, but the taste of organics are much better.
So instead I support the local growers through the community market(when I don't grow it myself). Also there is an organic "beef farm" that, frankly, is a much better tasting beef. The hamburger and steaks from them are the top choice hands down. Even the local meat market that is not organic has better cuts for a fraction over the cost of grocery store beef.

Yeah, it seems we're in a market correction, from the ultimately inefficient factory farms to the more efficient small farms. When you look at decades instead of years, the family farm wins in efficiency of resource use, because they're not destructive to the land (among many other reasons).

 

[libertarian4321]

He didn't shoot off his mouth, he espoused free market ideals.. and that's pretty friggin brave of him considering his customer base is generally to the left.

You say brave, other's may say foolish. Either way, he's a big boy, it's not my job to pull his ass out of the fire. He is free to say what he wants, but he must also understand that if he pisses off his customer base, he's going to suffer the consequences. That's part of the whole capitalism thing.

His food is not overpriced... his competition has underpriced food because it is SUBSIDIZED by the government, and you help support those subsidized assholes which leads to more lobbying and more subsidies and more taxes.

I buy what I want, based on what I believe is in my best economic interests, and I don't need lectures from some twit on an internet forum who thinks he has all the answers.

It's amazing how little some libertarians know about what they are paying for things. Some just think that cheaper is better, and they don't put the quality of product or the effects of manufacturing the product into the equation at all. These are the type of libertarians who make people in our movement look like a bunch of selfish assholes.

I've been pretty successful in life. I was able to retire in my 40s. Part of that was having a decent income and investing well, but it also included LIVING BELOW MY MEANS. Making wise purchases (and that includes not overpaying for things) is a huge part of that.

BTW, this "selfish asshole" probably donates more to charity in an average year than you earn, but thanks for the lecture. Freedom is a wonderful thing- even stupid people can rant...

 

[BenIsForRon]

One of the problems here is that we're linking Whole Foods with the organic movement, which isn't totally true. Whole Foods is better, but not great. We gotsta get back to our roots.

 

[phill4paul]

Yeah, it seems we're in a market correction, from the ultimately inefficient factory farms to the more efficient small farms. When you look at decades instead of years, the family farm wins in efficiency of resource use, because they're not destructive to the land (among many other reasons).

Agree 100%. However, my ability to get this good stuff comes down to location. City folk wouldn't have this choice.