why not print our money with valuable inks

[gilliganscorner]

So who would issue the currency?

 

[scandinaviany3]

You would have to change your unit of currency.

A "dollar", "peso", "pound" etc etc are nothing more than arbitrary units of purchasing power. Those units have no weight and no measure and that is why fiat is so relative and "flexible" - usually at our loss.

Could we have our bills that have units of denomination like: milligram, gram, decagrams where the bills have the defined weight of gold in them?

If I had a few ounces of gold and was willing to invest in a printing press, could I print off bills to compete with yours? If the gold makes your bill good, it would make my bill good as well.

Could I print them and loan them out at interest? Hey, I could be a bank! If my bank failed, my bills in circulation would still be good, wouldn't they?

for barter ...yes always good as they should be since you bartered your work and value for this time.

Not sure why anyone in their right mind would try to counterfit printing gold

Very high margins to get off the ground. Making it very easy for anti counterfitting efforts to be prevented, gold is also very easy to detect in the media with sensor techologies.

But for legal and tender currency exchange it would still be counter fit if you print your own US dollars since this money would still have security tracking inks, etc. and only the US can regulate the commerce and coin money.

You wouldnt be able to keep up with the mint and they could change anything without you knowing it and catch you.

 

[gilliganscorner]

for barter ...yes always good as they should be since you bartered your work and value for this time.

Not sure why anyone in their right mind would try to counterfit printing gold

Very high margins to get off the ground. Making it very easy for anti counterfitting efforts to be prevented, gold is also very easy to detect in the media with sensor techologies.

But for legal and tender currency exchange it would still be counter fit if you print your own US dollars since this money would still have security tracking inks, etc. and only the US can regulate the commerce and coin money.

You wouldnt be able to keep up with the mint and they could change anything without you knowing it and catch you.

Whoa.

I am not suggesting I counterfeit anything.

I am talking about printing my own bills with clearly defined weights of gold in them. I would come up with my own design and put correctly advertised amount of gold in them. Hell, I could even put on my bills, "Not legal tender." but STILL have the correct amount of gold in them.

If the embedded gold gives the State bills value, MY bills have value too.

 

[fgd]

Gold is too malleable and will be rubbed out of the bills eventually, diminishing their value.

I think the proper solution is small gold bars encased in polymer, with a wire grid surrounding them leading to an RFID chip containing a PGP-signed message using the coining authority's key so the money can be authenticated against adulteration without being tracked.

 

[gilliganscorner]

You need to understand what gives the Federal Reserve Point power:

1) It is backed by debt. Our debt. Nothing more. It is irredeemable as per design. Why? Because no limit can be set to prevent printing more of it.
2) It is backed by State violence against you. They State demands payment in taxes in it. You must work for Federal Reserve Points. No employer will pay you in anything else, as State violence forces employers to steal from you before you get your paycheck. Your employer is an uncompensated State collection Agent.
3) As a result of (1) and (2) the State can and will steal from you via the insidious inflation tax. They will NEVER give that up. What do you think American support for the war would be if the State had to raise the taxes of each family by 4-5000 thousand dollars per year to pay for it? Exactly. If they did try it, people would riot and torch State trolls.

If government produced money valued by gold content, eventually agorism would take flight. And that is not. allowed. to. happen.

 

[xtravar]

There are sealants for waterproofing inks today...

Kodak has such a sealant that they use in making their inks permanent..even when you dip them over and over again in the water, agitate, etc...

Nothing would prevent money or anything for wear and tear in a physical nature though...coins suffer the same problem, chips, breaks, etc.

That is why you dont put a large amount into any bill and disperse it and seal it so that this happens.

Logically the money circulation has to be for reliability tracked to maintain the holdings of the precious metals in the media just like color permance and water fastness we have done in the printing markets for years.

Wouldn't all of this sealing technology make a dollar bill as unwieldy to carry as, say, a slightly thick photograph? The government is constantly circulating in new dollars (and destroying old ones) because they get so scrunched and raggy.

I'm not opposed to the idea; I just think that it would involve the unfortunate risk of losing a lot of gold in random places. Gold isn't very valuable when you find trace amounts in your back jean pocket.

 

[Rhys]

I have to ask... isn't this price fixing?

It seems to me, the only sound solution is Ron Paul's... we need competing currency. The problem of a sound currency would be solved, but scarcity would increase above the rate of value increasing, deflation. Deflation is not bad, don't get me wrong.... however, it seems that it could be as damaging as monetary inflation if... the deflation comes from hoarding rather than an increase in production.

If currencies were not issued by the government, but instead, private entities, your gold print would be very good. In fact, I'd like to start a company now that issues gold, silver, platinum and copper ink money. This way, as one gets hoarded, the other gains in popularity.

Any of you ever played an online role playing game? They always have three currencies, usually copper, silver and gold. In the early stages of the game, weapons and potions are scarce and hard to come by. The money is very valuable so you can buy stuff. By the end of the game, everything is plentiful and nobody even cares about money. This is because production has increased and deflation has come about through natural processes.

 

[Ninja Homer]

One idea a friend suggested to me the other day on this crisis was why dont we print our money with valuable inks.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-7089091/Ink-jet-printing-for-high.html

http://www.mcgpaper.com/silgolmetinp.html

He said if you only put a 400 or 500th of an ounce of gold for instance into the paper then the dollar would really be worth a dollar. And for each domination of money larger than a dollar you only need to print a larger area on the bill with gold.

Doing this would minimize cost and waste as compared to legacy processes of minting. Also as gold, or other precious metals are bought up on the market this would inherently increase the value of the money held in banks and in the persons of the people since supply would diminish. Making everything they exchanged their work for at the time always become cheaper. This to him sounded like the smart way to do money.

When you think about this that would mean all paper bank holdings for money during this crash would have a minimal market value that the FED could not effect and would safe guard the floor of the economy from going to zero.

hmmm... interesting idea. The only remaining concern I have after reading your answers to the other questions in this thread is how to keep people from scratching a little of the gold off each bill and then spending the bill. I'm sure there must be some way to prevent that, but I'm not sure what it would be.

For this to be a legal currency, it would have to be accepted by congress as a competing currency. I don't think it could replace the dollar right off the bat, because everybody would want to cash out into these dollars because the stuff in the bank isn't backed by gold, and there probably isn't enough gold to back it.

Something like this could be produced right now (without congressional approval), just not as "legal tender". It would be more for trade like Disney Dollars or gold and silver coins.

 

[gilliganscorner]

We already have a competing currency: Gold and Silver Eagles.

A gold eagle is valued at $50.00 in Federal Reserve Points.
A silver eagle is valued at $1.00 in Federal Reserve Points.

Have a look at the story about the man who tried to use this competing currency:

http://www.liberty-watch.com/volume03/issue08/coverstory.php

 

[jkr]

me likey

print it on hemp paper...

 

[gilliganscorner]

Respectfullly, this thread is missing the point.

You are asking the State to help you implement a mechanism that severely limits the power of the State: The power to print money infinitely.

The State will not help you.

We need to develop trading networks using sound money (i.e. gold and silver) as the mechanism for settlement, outside of the taxation/inflation system a.k.a "the red market" we are all enslaved to. Google "Agorism".

 

[Xenophage]

Its not necessary to circulate gold itself as the currency as long as the dollar can be converted to gold anyway.

 

[jkr]

but it would give it intrinsic value, or at the least industrial value...hmm ive seen carbide steel engagement rings lately, tungsten, steels...anyone remeber dragon lance? gold was worthless, steel was the money.

 

[jkr]

bUmp for an answer...

 

[scandinaviany3]

The model would be different

Wouldn't all of this sealing technology make a dollar bill as unwieldy to carry as, say, a slightly thick photograph? The government is constantly circulating in new dollars (and destroying old ones) because they get so scrunched and raggy.

I'm not opposed to the idea; I just think that it would involve the unfortunate risk of losing a lot of gold in random places. Gold isn't very valuable when you find trace amounts in your back jean pocket.

Doubtful that this cant be worked...key thing is the media printed in or on haveing value. Plastics, paper, and many things can be printed on and sealed in small regions. You could even embed in waxes so their is no easy way to touch these areas...so the gold wouldnt be going anywhere.

 

[scandinaviany3]

the problem is that then it can be easily manipulatedq

Its not necessary to circulate gold itself as the currency as long as the dollar can be converted to gold anyway.

As long as you the individual do not have control, and all you have is something representative of the value, manipulation and control of the money supply will run amuck