Why even bother looking for a job anymore?

[devil21]

I'm getting unemployment too. I've exhausted the first term of benefits, and now I'm on "emergency" unemployment. I am opposed to unemployment, but rationalize accepting benefits because I've paid into it for years.

Do you think that by the 60 or 70th week you've taken a little more than your fair share? The main point of my OP was that they keep extending it and they will continue to keep extending it. I don't have a problem with taking back what you paid in. I don't know what the figures are of money paid into unemployment but if someone knows where to find that info it might be eye opening.

 

[youngbuck]

Do you think that by the 60 or 70th week you've taken a little more than your fair share? The main point of my OP was that they keep extending it and they will continue to keep extending it. I don't have a problem with taking back what you paid in. I don't know what the figures are of money paid into unemployment but if someone knows where to find that info it might be eye opening.

For me, personally, at 60 or 70 weeks I would be taking in a little more than my fair share. However, if someone has paid into the system for 20+ years, I doubt they would be extinguishing their fair share by 60-70 weeks.

But, not every state is the same. Unlike some state, my "emergency" UE kicked in after 6 months, so I'm nowhere close to 60 weeks yet.

 

[newbitech]

I wouldn't call people "losers". Generally, those who are on government "aid" are likely pursuing other "interests", if you catch my drift, and almost all are preparing. The way I, and many people see it, this is a war, and and wars can be waged with dollars just as easily as they can be waged with guns. In fact, it's even easier, as it makes one almost invisible and tough to identify, even while draining the enemy of resources that he can use to oppress you.

nope I wouldn't call me a loser either. I give people on this forum and on unemployment a lot more credit than I give the "status quo" crowd.

What makes anyone think that people who are collecting unemployment are sitting around watching tv all day and living it up on the government dime?

To me that is a ridiculous notion. First off, anyone collecting unemployment is obviously not some lazy slob who isn't working by choice. Not only do you have to have a job to collect the benes, but in order to collect max benes, you had to have had a relatively good paying job for at least a couple of years.

Not one person on unemployment would rather be sit there and watch tv than go out and make what he/she was making before they got fired FOR NO FAULT of there own. Not a single one.

Of course, there are things that you "discover" when you are on unemployment. There are "websites" you discover while surfing the internet because you have exhausted all your leads FOR THAT DAY. And by the way, there is a requirement to show your job searches to keep collecting. You have to certify that you are looking for work. Not that they enforce it, but anyways, to get extended benes, yeah you have to submit an affidavit with job names and numbers that you contacted.

But like I am saying. One of the things you discover is that your time is even MORE valuable than you thought it was when you were making a killing. You also discover that you can get more politically involved when you are not tied down to your corp slave job. You also have time to dig up the truth about "stuff". You can get out and meet your neighbors. You can finish those nagging projects that you have been dying to finish.

So I completely REJECT this label that being unemployed and collecting my insurance claim that I PAID for is somehow making me lazy. That is called STIGMA. Anyways, I guess I responded to you because how you said "interests". I am growing some nice crops now, setting up barter with neighbors, gearing up to start a business that I always wanted to do but never had the time.

Anyways, I wouldn't lump people in this movement who are on unemployment in with the Lazy TV watchers so carelessly as others in this thread have done. I've seen too much from this movement to call anyone in it, no matter their circumstances lazy or "losers".

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

Good luck finding a job after being out of the force for more then 6 months. That is quite the gap and going to need a lengthy explanation. Even if unemployment makes more then a job, it is a lazy substitute. And frankly I think it reflects some of the character. I could of just as easily taken unemployment 10x over, I could have also collected food stamps. After all I have paid into all these government programs, in fact why don't I get a bail-out I paid into that too. Furthermore why don't I get rides on the USS Reagan I helped pay for that, and maintain it. Or I can work hard make connections and add more experience to my resume.

I have multiple references from attorneys to back me up when or if I need them. I won't have a problem finding work IF I decide to go back to work for a firm, or anywhere else. If anything my previous job would prevent me from getting a lower end job because its happened before. "Youre too educated, you will get bored here, we can't pay you what you are used to." etc. Ive heard it all before.

I paid a lot into the system over the years. Its my money, it was NEVER the governments money, or their RIGHT to take it out of my check. I'm sorry, I just will not feel guilty for taking unemployment. You pay into a system, and have an allotted amount. If you don't take it then, thats your problem.

Lazy? No, there is just nothing out there that is available that will be WORTH taking. I'm not going to go from making 30 dollars an hour, to 6.50 an hour just because a job is available, until I HAVE to. Besides, you know what I am doing over here and its hardly "lazy".

 

[talkingpointes]

I have multiple references from attorneys to back me up when or if I need them. I won't have a problem finding work IF I decide to go back to work for a firm, or anywhere else. If anything my previous job would prevent me from getting a lower end job because its happened before. "Youre too educated, you will get bored here, we can't pay you what you are used to." etc. Ive heard it all before.

I paid a lot into the system over the years. Its my money, it was NEVER the governments money, or their RIGHT to take it out of my check. I'm sorry, I just will not feel guilty for taking unemployment. You pay into a system, and have an allotted amount. If you don't take it then, thats your problem.

Lazy? No, there is just nothing out there that is available that will be WORTH taking. I'm not going to go from making 30 dollars an hour, to 6.50 an hour just because a job is available, until I HAVE to. Besides, you know what I am doing over here and its hardly "lazy".

Everyone has to get harassed ok!

 

[newbitech]

Do you think that by the 60 or 70th week you've taken a little more than your fair share? The main point of my OP was that they keep extending it and they will continue to keep extending it. I don't have a problem with taking back what you paid in. I don't know what the figures are of money paid into unemployment but if someone knows where to find that info it might be eye opening.

search for "how much does unemployment insurance cost"

ok.. here ya go.. glad I looked this up before I posted my original response. It is state specific but it appears to be pretty standard from the states I hit on in the search

Who Pays for It? You, the employer, pay for unemployment compensation through a tax managed by the Florida Department of Revenue. It is one of your business costs. Workers do not pay unemployment tax and employers must not make payroll deductions for this purpose. The consumer bears this cost in the price of the goods or services you sell. Thus, the burden of unemployment is shared by all. Your payments go into a fund from which monies are paid to eligible claimants. After a qualifying period, employers with a stable employment history will receive a lowered tax rate.

The tax rate for new employers is .0270 (2.7 percent). The first $7,000 in wages paid to each employee during a calendar year is taxable. Any amount over $7,000 for the year is excess wages and is not subject to tax. Excess wages can never be greater than gross wages.

So its $189 a year for every person who works in FL. Doesn't seem like much, but think about it. Even when I am unemployed, it still cost me to be unemployed

So considering I have earned over $7000 a year for the last 14 years... I personally have paid in $2,646 as a wage offset. Still not much. Ahhh but wait what is this?

Your Tax Rate

Only taxable wages that are reported by the end of the quarter immediately preceding the quarter for which the rate is calculated can be used in the tax rate calculation. When a new employer becomes liable for the tax, the rate is .0270 (2.7 percent) and will stay that until the employer has reported for 10 quarters (11 quarters in some cases). The account will then be rated by dividing the total benefits charged to the account (6 quarters) by the taxable payroll reported for the first 7 of the last 9 quarters immediately preceding the quarter for which the rate is effective. The one exception would be employers liable by succession and who choose to accept the tax rate of the previous employer, along with the responsibility of paying any outstanding amounts due. At that time, a tax rate will be calculated using the employment record and the rating factors, which are built into the Unemployment Compensation Law. The maximum tax rate allowed by law is .0540 (5.4 percent), except for employers participating in the Short Time Compensation Program. Rate notices are mailed to all employers that have a tax rate. You may appeal the tax rate within 20 days from the date of notification (date printed on the rate notice).

So double that. Now its at 5.4 percent cause you just KNOW employers are going to increase there prices in preparation for the worse case scenario and of course reduce wages at the same time to compensate.

so now I have "paid in" $5292 in wages alone. But how do you calculate the damage done by this invisible "tax" to the cost of goods and services? Well you can't. Well sort of. The Florida government makes it pretty clear that 5.4% of the cost of goods and services gets passed on as a labor tax to the consumer. So basically 5.4% of everything that I have bought in the last 14 years is also money I spent for OTHER people to be unemployed and collect.

So if I made average of 27k gross in the last 14 years, thats what? 378k? And I am now currently broke... that means I spent 378k - income tax. Well lets see lets be generous and knock off 25% for money i "spent" on "visible" taxes. That means I paid $283,000 to businesses that have to pay this payroll tax. So... 5.4% of that money being the "tax" that got passed on in the form of inflated prices to cover the cost of doing business for those folks I purchased goods and services from is ....

$15,309. Well lets do some math on that shall we? I get $300 a week in FL. Divide that into this price inflation and hey! What do you know? 51 weeks! Oh and lets go ahead and divide that $300 into the lost wages as well, cause you just know business are going to recoup that cost of doing business on the expense side as well. And hey look at there and extra 17.5 weeks in "emergency" compensation. For a grand total of 68.5 weeks.

That is how long I will stay on welfare. Its mine, I earned it. And what the hell, I will wave the interest charge as terms of settlement.

 

[newbitech]

Good luck finding a job after being out of the force for more then 6 months. That is quite the gap and going to need a lengthy explanation. Even if unemployment makes more then a job, it is a lazy substitute. And frankly I think it reflects some of the character. I could of just as easily taken unemployment 10x over, I could have also collected food stamps. After all I have paid into all these government programs, in fact why don't I get a bail-out I paid into that too. Furthermore why don't I get rides on the USS Reagan I helped pay for that, and maintain it. Or I can work hard make connections and add more experience to my resume.

so what kind of connections are you making at 8 bucks and hour? The kinds of jobs that I apply for would rather see a lengthy explanation on my 1 year hiatus than see me post up line cook at dagwoods grill. Seriously man, think about what you are saying. Have you ever hired someone before or been a part of that decision making process? Chances are, the person that is going to be hiring me in my next corp slave jobs will know TONS of people who got laid off and might even be an ex layoff themselves. Trust me, once I find my next job, they will understand what has been going on the last 2 years.

You have to understand, in a recession as bad as this, its not just individuals getting axed. Its whole damn industries taking dumps. Massive dumps. And LOL at the USS Reagan. Yer damn right, you could get paid to ride on that sucker. Just sign up, same thing you do for unemployment. But you know what, I'd wager that the line to get on that boat isn't as long as the unemployment line, but that ride is probably getting popular about right now too, considering UEC is drying up pretty fast.

 

[devil21]

So if I made average of 27k gross in the last 14 years, thats what? 378k? And I am now currently broke... that means I spent 378k - income tax. Well lets see lets be generous and knock off 25% for money i "spent" on "visible" taxes. That means I paid $283,000 to businesses that have to pay this payroll tax. So... 5.4% of that money being the "tax" that got passed on in the form of inflated prices to cover the cost of doing business for those folks I purchased goods and services from is ....

I admire your number crunching but I think you leave out important details. How much of your pay went toward debt obligations? Car loan? Credit cards? Mortgage? Student loan repayment? It wasn't just plain consumer spending. Basically anything that's not just "passed on in the form of inflated prices"? By your measure, any spending you ever do is paying into the unemployment fund. There may be some truth to that but the 2.7% figure is still miniscule on a person by person basis.

It sounds like you're blaming inflation alone as the justification to keep collecting money from .gov and since you paid into the Ponzi scheme then you should benefit in inflated dollars at a later date. That's part of the problem I think. Let's be realistic here. What you paid in was spent a long time ago. What you're collecting now is money taken from others yesterday, money borrowed from China, or money fresh off Uncle Ben's printing press. This is why the system is unsustainable. Your payments weren't put into trust for your benefit at a later date. Your checks are out of someone else's pocket today.

Btw, not trying to go after you for collecting. I just see it being another piece in the big unsustainable financial picture of the nation. It's also a big key for the establishment to keep people from getting too antsy. 20% of the country, 1 in 5 people, going bankrupt and struggling to even survive, let alone keep a roof over their head, would be hard to ignore and Washington would be hearing about it. A control tool.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[Jordan]

Lazy? No, there is just nothing out there that is available that will be WORTH taking. I'm not going to go from making 30 dollars an hour, to 6.50 an hour just because a job is available, until I HAVE to. Besides, you know what I am doing over here and its hardly "lazy".

Lazy ass pot smokers.

 

[newbitech]

I admire your number crunching but I think you leave out important details. How much of your pay went toward debt obligations? Car loan? Credit cards? Mortgage? Student loan repayment? It wasn't just plain consumer spending. Basically anything that's not just "passed on in the form of inflated prices"? By your measure, any spending you ever do is paying into the unemployment fund. There may be some truth to that but the 2.7% figure is still miniscule on a person by person basis.

It sounds like you're blaming inflation alone as the justification to keep collecting money from .gov and since you paid into the Ponzi scheme then you should benefit in inflated dollars at a later date. That's part of the problem I think. Let's be realistic here. What you paid in was spent a long time ago. What you're collecting now is money taken from others yesterday, money borrowed from China, or money fresh off Uncle Ben's printing press. This is why the system is unsustainable. Your payments weren't put into trust for your benefit at a later date. Your checks are out of someone else's pocket today.

Btw, not trying to go after you for collecting. I just see it being another piece in the big unsustainable financial picture of the nation. It's also a big key for the establishment to keep people from getting too antsy. 20% of the country, 1 in 5 people, going bankrupt and struggling to even survive, let alone keep a roof over their head, would be hard to ignore and Washington would be hearing about it. A control tool.

oh no doubt its a rough cut number. I was just trying to illustrate how to come up with a way to analyze how much someone paid in vs how much they can reasonably take out and claim their own.

Like I said before, I am not on unemployment cause I want to be. I am on unemployment because I HAVE to be. Sure let me go out and take an 8 dollar an hour job away from an entry level person. Someone who is fresh out of high school or trying to make it through college. The fact is, there are not enough jobs. People can tell all the stories they want about feeling good about taking a job that pays 3 times less then they were making before. Well consider this, you are taking a job from someone who has no chance to go on unemployment. How is that fair? How is that even good?

Anyways, you are using the low figure as if companies bank on the low end of expense. Any company counting on the bottom end of expense is already out of business in this market. And with all the layoffs, most companies are going to be forced to pay more in the payroll tax.

You are right, the money I paid in was already spent, it was spent on people who collected while I was earning for them. It was also priced in to the goods and services I bought, then and am buying now. So every time I spend this check on something, guess what 5.4% goes in marked up prices. That is why I said even though I am unemployed I am still paying for myself to be unemployed.


Of course it is totally unsustainable. No doubt. I can't wait until everyone realizes it and demands changes. My goal tho is not to make the system collapse by accepting this handout. My goal is to use that money wisely and prepare myself and other for when the changes start to occur, either by force of nature or force of man. Regardless, I think spending that handout wisely is the best thing I could do for anyone that is forced to pay it, even if they don't know they are being forced to. Even if they don't care.

I am not blaming inflation and using that as a justification to collect the money. I don't even think I need to justify it. Its the law and according to the law I am doing nothing that requires justification. Maybe there is a moral argument against what I am doing, but it won't stop me from doing it, because regardless of the best moral argument against what I am doing, as long as I believe that I am taking the best moral decision and act accordingly, then no one else has a right to judge me. Until you can prove that the money I am taken belongs to YOU, and how much, then I just will ignore your case against me. And hey look, if it will make you feel better, I will give you your share too. Just tell me how much I owe you and once I start working again, in about 6 months, I'll be happy to pay you back, by choice or by not.

 

[newbitech]

Well I am not sure about you but Newbitech on the other hand is all for the constitution and legalizing force through taxation. After all the government does have the power to tax. So in Newbitech's case it is not his money. And any money that has been paid in has already been spent because the government is broke. So a big simultaneous thank you and your welcome.

That is such a bullshit statement. Legalizing force through taxation? What kind of crap speak is that? No one forced you to pay taxes. You decide you are going to pay taxes when you decide that you want to go get a corp job. Or use the government to sanction your business.

So down with the Constitution right? There is already a thread for that.

And LOL at its not my money. Tell me, who does the 15k that I am "stealing" supposedly belong to? And how do you plan on returning that "stolen" money back to its rightful owner?

No, I am taking back what was "stolen" from me so that I can turn right around and get back to setting myself up to get "stolen" from again. Of course, there is a slight variation to that theme that I am working on. I am using MY money to go ahead and get prepared to defend myself from anyone that thinks about touching my money without my permission in the future. Get back to me in a few months and when you can calculate how much I owe you, I will go ahead and make sure you get back everything I "stole" times 10.

By the way, thanks for helping to keep my family alive for the last 3 months. I appreciate it. And if you are having some hard time through no fault of you own in the future, I'll be here. I have no problem donated some of this "stolen" treasure to politics that I agree with and have a chance of changing the system, and I have also contributed some of this stolen loot to other liberty lovers who needed it more than me.

 

[klamath]

This thread explains a lot. Wow, why don't you guys even come up with an original excuse. "Anyway to break the system, man. I paid in, I am going to get it back, man" Did I just get a 60's and 70's flashback!
Good grief if you can't find work to support yourselves when the US economy is still employing 80 to 90 percent of the people what will you do when 60% of the workforce is unemployed and there is no more government programs because you broke the system? Shoot your neighbor and take his food using some excuse that he was a neocon or a liberal so deserved it? If you can't survive in this great economy how are you going to survive when the government isn't there to bail you out.
In the late 70's and early 80's the unemployment rate was higher than now plus there was 16% interest rates and 12 percent inflation.
I never took government aid then and I won't now. I damned near starved to death but that was my freedom.

For those that are just sitting on the dole, smoking dope and ranting how much they hate the government and they want to break the system there is no hope for unless they take some time to reflect on themselves personally.

For those that have drive and fire in their heart here is a thread for you.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/self-employment-different-way-170955.html

 

[cheapseats]

Simple Simon met a pieman going to the fair;
Said Simple Simon to the pieman "Let me taste your ware"
Said the pieman to Simple Simon "Show me first your penny"
Said Simple Simon to the pieman "Sir, I have not any!"

Simple Simon went a-fishing for to catch a whale;
All the water he had got was in his mother's pail.
Simple Simon went to look if plums grew on a thistle;
He pricked his fingers very much which made poor Simon whistle.
He went for water in a sieve but soon it all fell through;
And now poor Simple Simon bids you all "Adieu"​

 

[devil21]

BUMP

Senate is on the way to extending unemployment benefits up to 99 weeks! It's approaching 2 YEARS!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/extending-jobless-benefits-clears-senate-hurdle-2009-10-27

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The Senate moved closer Tuesday to approving an extension of unemployment benefits for an extra 20 weeks.

The Senate agreed on an 87-13 procedural vote to bring the measure to a final vote, killing a Republican filibuster that had delayed action for more than a week.

If the bill is approved by both chambers on Capitol Hill and is signed by the president, those who cannot find work would be eligible for a maximum of 99 weeks of benefits.

The Senate bill would extend benefits for 14 additional weeks in all states, and an additional six weeks in states with unemployment rate above 8.5%. In September, 26 states and the District of Columbia had unemployment rates above 8.5%.

Nationally, the unemployment rate was 9.8% in September, the highest in 26 years. Most analysts expect the unemployment rate to reach 10% soon and to remain above 9% for at least another year, even if the economy continues to recover.

The House has approved a similar extension that would give 13 extra weeks of benefits to people in high unemployment states. The two different versions of the bill would have to be reconciled before final passage.

Usually, unemployment benefits are available for up to 26 weeks to people who lose their job through no fault of their own. Benefits are typically extended during recessions, but have never before been available for longer than a year. Read more about the unemployment system under stress.

Benefits are paid for by a tax on employers. The extended benefits would be paid for by extending a federal employment tax that's already in place.

Each state sets its own tax rate, payment level and eligibility requirements. For the nation as a whole, unemployment benefits replace about 60% of the income lost when a job is lost. Benefits are based on how much the laid-off worker made and the worker's job history.

The least-generous state is Mississippi, where the average benefit is $193 a week. The most-generous state is Minnesota, where the average is $408.

The National Employment Law Project, a private advocacy group, has estimated that as many as 1.5 million people will exhaust their benefits by the end of the year.

More than half of those who file for benefits ultimately exhaust their regular state benefits six months later without finding a job.

A total of 9.3 million people are now claiming benefits, including 3.9 million collecting extended federal benefits, according to the most recent data from the Labor Department.

In September, more than 5.4 million people had been jobless for longer than six months, accounting for a record 35.6% of those who are officially classified as unemployed.

Finding a job is increasingly difficult. According to the Conference Board, the percentage of consumers who think jobs are hard to find rose to 49.6% in October from 47% in September. Just 3.4% think jobs are plentiful.

In August, there were 14.9 million officially unemployed people but only 2.4 million job openings. Countless more want work but are discouraged about their prospects.

 

[s35wf]

for those that can collect unemployment; thats great. for those of us who have always been self employed & cannot; this economy s*cks.

good thing when i made $ I saved it. im living on the $ i had planned to use for my retirement years. when im old enough to retire at this rate there will/maybe nothing left.

one can only "hope" things get better.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

CASH is KING!

Screw this Government Servitude and indebted slavery horseshit! When you take it all into account, .Gov are the ones destroying the economy and creating all the inflation. plus debt.

 

[swirling_vortex]

The way I look at it, I view it the same way Ron Paul views earmarks: If the money isn't going to the constituents, then it's going to the executive branch. Now, I know some of the Objectivsts would be appalled at anyone taking government handouts, but I see things differently. If the government didn't create the mess, then I might see things in a more pragmatic way, but as long as the government is tilting the field, then I don't want to be at a disadvantage.

Good grief if you can't find work to support yourselves when the US economy is still employing 80 to 90 percent of the people what will you do when 60% of the workforce is unemployed and there is no more government programs because you broke the system? Shoot your neighbor and take his food using some excuse that he was a neocon or a liberal so deserved it? If you can't survive in this great economy how are you going to survive when the government isn't there to bail you out.
In the late 70's and early 80's the unemployment rate was higher than now plus there was 16% interest rates and 12 percent inflation.
I never took government aid then and I won't now. I damned near starved to death but that was my freedom.

More power to you, but that still doesn't change the fact that:

-The system is already broken and has been for some time
-If you're not reclaiming your tax dollars, then somebody else is

I'd like to live in a society where I didn't have to worry about interest rates being manipulated by the Fed, regulations, and tax rates. But until that happens, the pragmatic approach isn't always the realistic approach.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I went through about a year unemployed the last time it got to double digit unemployment in the 1980's. I had a little money saved (was no longer living with my parents) and got no unemployment. I finally took a job bagging groceries for about minimum wage (took three weeks pay just for my rent at the time) but was glad to have a job. That was with a college degree and two majors (Economics and Political Science). I was literally down to about $50 when I got my first check. That taught me to apreciate having a job and the value of working hard (as the new guy I got all the crap jobs to do but did them anyways since I wanted to get a better position). I also learned what was a "need" (food, place to stay) or a "want" (stereo, TV,- didn't have computers then) and to get by on less. Now that I make more money, I still live like I don't make as much as I do. That is helping me now as my employer has reduced my hours.

Was it anybody's fault I lost my job? No. Well, maybe it was people at the company who allowed/ caused it to go bankrupt. But that will happen in a capitalist society. Was it anybody else's responsiblity to pay me to not work? No. It was up to me to get out there and do something. Even if it does not pay much, there are still some jobs out there. Some people have their standards set too high for what they will accept. As you get hungrier, those will come down.

We can bitch about taxes- but they are not going to go away. I am glad I have a job so I have money to pay taxes with (not saying I enjoy paying them) .
Ben Franklin:

in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.

 

[Pants]

oh well

I would LOVE to see Obama extended unemployment benefits. Since the unemployment data is based on those who are claiming.. A 14% unemployment rate would ensure the lesser evil party takes Congress next year.

Starting a war is what ended the Great Depression.. I think Bush dodged a very deep recession in 2001-2002 by going to war.. BUT these wars are endless, and are bottomless money pits. WWII was only 3 to 4 years.

I also think when you take steps to prevent a recession and the Government gets involved to put band aid fixes to lessen the impact of the recession. It either prolongs the recession or causes the next recession in the economic cycle to be aggressively worse. I often think how much easier it would have been if we just took the recession in 2001.. and not have done stimulus packages, bank bailouts, and Auto industry bailouts in 2008 and 2009.. We probably would have hit rock bottom.. But I bet if we hit rock bottom, there would have been no place else to go except up. ,