Why even bother looking for a job anymore?

[rp08orbust]

ok, how about this: " A horrible new Madonna album came out, I do not like it but will protest it by buying it, and driving up her sales, so she thinks she is a good musician when she really isn't ... where she will eventually be exposed as a fraud."

There would certainly be nothing immoral about that. However, it would help keep Modonna in business, not put her out of business.

On the other hand, increasing the federal deficit must eventually put the federal government out of "business".

 

[newbitech]

How can liberty activist take money from the gov't? This blows me away. I have been laid-off 3 times in the past two years, also I went from making $25.00 an hour to now making $8.25. I went from being skilled labor (flooring installer) to being huddled over a grill for 6-10 hours a day. Most people are too embarrassed or too good for these jobs but I now take pride in it. On my days of (two or one a week) I mow lawns for one person and install tile for another. This wasn't an easy decision but I would of been an incredible hypocrite if I didn't. Instead I have restored my credibility in doing what it takes to survive.

The first thing to go with my good wages was my lifestyle, I no longer can drive. (sold my truck) I ride my bike generally about 125 miles a week. I have no bills almost what-so-ever (40 phone bill) working fast food I get 50% discount on food, despite it's quality I find it delicious. We need to pull ourselves up by our boot straps and work no matter what.

Look for a job who cares about the pay, be productive not a parasite. Sorry if you feel that is rude but I can't stand excuses.

I work on the side too, but I don't accept cash, I barter. This is the difference between paying for things in fiat and paying for things with labor. Sure I use the benefit payoff my bills, this is what allows me to set up the barter network that I will use in the future when fiat collapse. I think you might want to do the same thing. But see you are stuck in your $8 job. Cause you can't quit otherwise you won't get the check. So get yourself fire and you won't lose any money, then you can spend 40 hours a week setting up your business and barter system.

We don't call Ron Paul a hypocrite for earmarking money for his district because that is money that flowed out of his district. Same thing for people on unemployment. I put in 14 years and paid into the system. I am taking a year back. This is what it takes for me to survive now and into the future. $20-$30 jobs aren't coming back, and sorry but I can't be independent on $8 an hour. Not in this inflated economy and certainly not in the hyper-inflated economy that is coming up.

Good luck to you tho. I used to cook years ago as a second job. Its a rewarding career if you are good at it. But I realized that I had more to contribute to society and I felt like I was wasting my life doing it. But i would do it again if I HAD to. Right now, I don't HAVE to.

Oh and..

not to argue with you, but when I think about your situation I say, no bills? who pays your power and water for starters? Then who pays your rent?

 

[rp08orbust]

How can liberty activist take money from the gov't? This blows me away. I have been laid-off 3 times in the past two years, also I went from making $25.00 an hour to now making $8.25. I went from being skilled labor (flooring installer) to being huddled over a grill for 6-10 hours a day. Most people are too embarrassed or too good for these jobs but I now take pride in it. On my days of (two or one a week) I mow lawns for one person and install tile for another. This wasn't an easy decision but I would of been an incredible hypocrite if I didn't. Instead I have restored my credibility in doing what it takes to survive.

If you have spent your life condemning those who accept government welfare payments, then it would indeed make you a hypocrite to begin accepting them yourself. However, hypocrisy is also a victimless crime, and anyone who ever changes their ethical beliefs risks becoming a hypocrite. The Iraq-war-supporting neocons we are attempting to convert to libertarianism will become hypocrites the moment they begin opposing the occupation of Afghanistan. Very few of us have had the good fortune of beginning our adult lives, like Ron Paul, with the correct ethics in the first place so that we would never risk hypocrisy by having to change them.

 

[talkingpointes]

I work on the side too, but I don't accept cash, I barter. This is the difference between paying for things in fiat and paying for things with labor. Sure I use the benefit payoff my bills, this is what allows me to set up the barter network that I will use in the future when fiat collapse. I think you might want to do the same thing. But see you are stuck in your $8 job. Cause you can't quit otherwise you won't get the check. So get yourself fire and you won't lose any money, then you can spend 40 hours a week setting up your business and barter system.

We don't call Ron Paul a hypocrite for earmarking money for his district because that is money that flowed out of his district. Same thing for people on unemployment. I put in 14 years and paid into the system. I am taking a year back. This is what it takes for me to survive now and into the future. $20-$30 jobs aren't coming back, and sorry but I can't be independent on $8 an hour. Not in this inflated economy and certainly not in the hyper-inflated economy that is coming up.

Good luck to you tho. I used to cook years ago as a second job. Its a rewarding career if you are good at it. But I realized that I had more to contribute to society and I felt like I was wasting my life doing it. But i would do it again if I HAD to. Right now, I don't HAVE to.

Oh and..

not to argue with you, but when I think about your situation I say, no bills? who pays your power and water for starters? Then who pays your rent?

I live with a person that owns a few houses and doesn't have the time to work on them. So I paint and install floors as well as any other general maintenance. As for my going-no-where-$8-job, that isn't necessarily true, I had to eliminate my bills by getting rid of things I don't need and paying things off. So my money is being saved not spent. I might not make a ton but it adds up. Also since it is not much and I have to work hard for it I am more intent on spending it strictly on needs and not wants.

We don't call Ron Paul a hypocrite because the money is going to be spent no matter what. That still doesn't make it ok, I would think he would rather not have to divvy up the loot. The whole idea of well I paid into the system so I am just getting my money back is moot in my opinion. Did you want to pay that money, also why not collect it all back ? My opinion is that it makes us lazy...

 

[talkingpointes]

If you have spent your life condemning those who accept government welfare payments, then it would indeed make you a hypocrite to begin accepting them yourself. However, hypocrisy is also a victimless crime, and anyone who ever changes their ethical beliefs risks becoming a hypocrite. The Iraq-war-supporting neocons we are attempting to convert to libertarianism will become hypocrites the moment they begin opposing the occupation of Afghanistan. Very few of us have had the good fortune of beginning our adult lives, like Ron Paul, with the correct ethics in the first place so that we would never risk hypocrisy by having to change them.

Well above all I think credibility means a lot. Especially when you surround yourself with responsible people that live by their word. I haven't always had these thoughts but I think it is a sound foundation to become a responsible adult with.

 

[Working Poor]

I started working when I was a child and worked more than one job most of the time in business for myself for much of the time. I have been looking for a job for a very long time before I found one. I am grateful my family was able to help me otherwise I would have had to move in with them. I don't feel bad about having food stamps for a year. When I went to the food stamp office I felt bad about all the illegals that are taking advantage of the services here....

 

[rp08orbust]

We don't call Ron Paul a hypocrite because the money is going to be spent no matter what. That still doesn't make it ok, I would think he would rather not have to divvy up the loot. The whole idea of well I paid into the system so I am just getting my money back is moot in my opinion. Did you want to pay that money, also why not collect it all back ? My opinion is that it makes us lazy...

You are quite possibly right about leeching off the government making the leech lazy, which could be a good consequentialist argument against it. However, I'm focusing on the ethics of it.

talkingpointes, have you ever called the police about anything on your own behalf? If not, then would you ever call the police?

If so, then how would you justify using such a government service? How would it differ, in ethical terms, from accepting a welfare payment? In both cases, you did not earn the service, and both services are at least partially paid for out of stolen loot.

 

[talkingpointes]

You are quite possibly right about leeching off the government making the leech lazy, which could be a good consequentialist argument against it. However, I'm focusing on the ethics of it.

talkingpointes, have you ever called the police about anything on your own behalf? If not, then would you ever call the police?

If so, then how would you justify using such a government service? How would it differ, in ethical terms, from accepting a welfare payment? In both cases, you did not earn the service, and both services are at least partially paid for out of stolen loot.

Good question my answer is: no. I have two guns in the next room and both are loaded, the only thing the police would be called for is to report a crime, and possibly to clean up the mess. But that is protocol and my hands are tied on the matter. I have no reasons to really ever call the police and never have, self-defense is a must.

 

[rp08orbust]

Good question my answer is: no. I have two guns in the next room and both are loaded, the only thing the police would be called for is to report a crime, and possibly to clean up the mess. But that is protocol and my hands are tied on the matter. I have no reasons to really ever call the police and never have, self-defense is a must.

OK, I applaud you for your self-reliance in the area of self-defense. (Though I would also applaud you for running the police out of business by calling them every 30 minutes )

While I can't say for certain without knowing you, I suspect that if we analyzed your life closely enough, we could find subtle ways in which you do rely on government benefits to some extent.

For example, do you have, or have you ever had, any interest-bearing US bank accounts? If so, then it could be argued that at least a portion of that interest is equivalent to welfare from the FDIC. Without the FDIC guaranteeing your deposit, you would be forced to demand security for your deposit from either the bank itself or from some other private source, and in exchange for that security, you would receive less in interest.

 

[talkingpointes]

OK, I applaud you for your self-reliance in the area of self-defense. (Though I would also applaud you for running the police out of business by calling them every 30 minutes )

While I can't say for certain without knowing you, I suspect that if we analyzed your life closely enough, we could find subtle ways in which you do rely on government benefits to some extent.

For example, do you have, or have you ever had, any interest-bearing US bank accounts? If so, then it could be argued that at least a portion of that interest is equivalent to welfare from the FDIC. Without the FDIC guaranteeing your deposit, you would be forced to demand security for your deposit from either the bank itself or from some other private source, and in exchange for that security, you would receive less in interest.

Rather then trying to find subtle ways I use government, commend me for what I am and live for. Nobody is perfect, but we can always work on ourselves and serve as a good example for others. Life is hard, but nobody ever said it was going to be easy.

 

[MelissaWV]

I will keep my answer directed at the OP and leave the metaphors to those flinging them...

Why bother looking for a job? This country needs people do work, and that's the simple, basic truth. What sectors they work in changes quite often. We once created things, but now we lean towards servicing things, and even that is being shifted away. We might someday just be a nation that thinks about things. God help us. If there are people hiring, then one should continue looking. It's very simple.

But why! There's so many programs that will pay for you to sit on your tush and watch television! The reality is that, for most people, being on welfare isn't some kind of magic meal ticket to a rich lifestyle. Foodstamps only go so far. You need to figure out transportation costs. You need to realize that the "benefits" you get are not the best you can do. Yes, it's a leg up, and it can help you get back on your feet, but by no means is it an eternal solution, and it CERTAINLY is not a solution that will help you leave anything to your children, family, or friends but a burden and a lot of debt.

The real bottom line is that you should look for a job because 1) there are jobs to be had and 2) making it on your own is way better than sucking at the Government teat forever, especially since that milk is only going to go sour with time.

If you can't seem to find a job, perhaps a change of focus? From an AP article:

In a brutal job market, here's a task that might sound easy: Fill jobs in nursing, engineering and energy research that pay $55,000 to $60,000, plus benefits.

Yet even with 15 million people hunting for work, even with the unemployment rate nearing 10 percent, some employers can't find enough qualified people for good-paying career jobs....

Economists say the main problem is a mismatch between available work and people qualified to do it. Millions of jobs with attractive pay and benefits that once drew legions of workers to the auto industry, construction, Wall Street and other sectors are gone, probably for good. And those who lost those jobs generally lack the right experience for new positions popping up in health care, energy and engineering.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091004/ap_on_bi_ge/us_good_jobs_unfilled

 

[rp08orbust]

Why bother looking for a job? This country needs people to work

Without Godwinning myself, I'll just say that's the worst reason I've ever heard for getting a job

 

[tmosley]

I will keep my answer directed at the OP and leave the metaphors to those flinging them...

Why bother looking for a job? This country needs people do work, and that's the simple, basic truth. What sectors they work in changes quite often. We once created things, but now we lean towards servicing things, and even that is being shifted away. We might someday just be a nation that thinks about things. God help us. If there are people hiring, then one should continue looking. It's very simple.

But why! There's so many programs that will pay for you to sit on your tush and watch television! The reality is that, for most people, being on welfare isn't some kind of magic meal ticket to a rich lifestyle. Foodstamps only go so far. You need to figure out transportation costs. You need to realize that the "benefits" you get are not the best you can do. Yes, it's a leg up, and it can help you get back on your feet, but by no means is it an eternal solution, and it CERTAINLY is not a solution that will help you leave anything to your children, family, or friends but a burden and a lot of debt.

The real bottom line is that you should look for a job because 1) there are jobs to be had and 2) making it on your own is way better than sucking at the Government teat forever, especially since that milk is only going to go sour with time.

If you can't seem to find a job, perhaps a change of focus? From an AP article:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091004/ap_on_bi_ge/us_good_jobs_unfilled

Nazi Germany might have needed workers, but that was no reason to run out and work for the Zyclon B factory.

This country is screwed. It needs failure like a spoiled child needs a spanking.

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

newbitech, do you feel bad or remorseful at all that you are on governemnt money? even though one of the tenants of "freedom" movement is being selfsufficient and not having huge govt' social programs?

I'm on unemployment too. The way I look at it is they TOOK that money out my check for so many years. I am just getting it back. Do I feel bad? NO. Its MY money!

 

[Revolution_Ready]

I grew up a dirt poor kid, but never took a time from the government. It was healthy for me. There is no way I could be proud of it or profess it's no longer time to look for a job. NEVER....I love this forum but there are sure a lot of negative losers on here. I would expect more from ron paul supporters!

I worked my ass off since then and have lived WAY below my means to save up enough dough to buy undervalued real estate that cash flows. Now I am called rich by my friends, not that I feel that way. I still live way below what I could, and am gearing up to buy commercial property that idiots paid too much for from the banks.

Guys get positive and wake up! You can make a lot of money right now, but only if you don't have a loser attitude!

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

I find it hard to believe you guys can't at least find a low paying job.

There is unemployment unemployment, and then there is "I can't find a job that meets my standards". Not trying to be harsh here, I may just be ignorant of your circumstances.



Once the mother fucker hits rock bottom, what resources will you have to make due? At what point do you detach yourself from the mofo and start flying solo? To pick a random analogy, it seems like trying to wait for the last possible second until you have to deploy your parachute.

Yeah but when your unemployment pays MORE than those low end paying jobs, why work? That would be totally STUPID to do. I have been paying off debt, that accumulated whilst working, that I would not have had if I didn't have to pay such high taxes. When the debt gets paid off, then I won't NEED a high paying job and can take any job I want.

 

[tmosley]

I grew up a dirt poor kid, but never took a time from the government. It was healthy for me. There is no way I could be proud of it or profess it's no longer time to look for a job. NEVER....I love this forum but there are sure a lot of negative losers on here. I would expect more from ron paul supporters!

I worked my ass off since then and have lived WAY below my means to save up enough dough to buy undervalued real estate that cash flows. Now I am called rich by my friends, not that I feel that way. I still live way below what I could, and am gearing up to buy commercial property that idiots paid too much for from the banks.

Guys get positive and wake up! You can make a lot of money right now, but only if you don't have a loser attitude!

I wouldn't call people "losers". Generally, those who are on government "aid" are likely pursuing other "interests", if you catch my drift, and almost all are preparing. The way I, and many people see it, this is a war, and and wars can be waged with dollars just as easily as they can be waged with guns. In fact, it's even easier, as it makes one almost invisible and tough to identify, even while draining the enemy of resources that he can use to oppress you.

 

[phill4paul]

The way I, and many people see it, this is a war, and and wars can be waged with dollars just as easily as they can be waged with guns. In fact, it's even easier, as it makes one almost invisible and tough to identify, even while draining the enemy of resources that he can use to oppress you.

I think this sums it up.
Yes, it is one thing to have a good work ethic and a determination to overcome your adversity.
It is quite another thing to recognize the source of your adversity (i.e. adversary) and determine the best course of action to overthrow them.
They have the big guns, however to operate the big guns they need money.
Screw 'em! Ethics and civility apply, like respect, to those that are willing to extend the same.
I'm not an anarchist, but it is time for a reset.

 

[talkingpointes]

Yeah but when your unemployment pays MORE than those low end paying jobs, why work? That would be totally STUPID to do. I have been paying off debt, that accumulated whilst working, that I would not have had if I didn't have to pay such high taxes. When the debt gets paid off, then I won't NEED a high paying job and can take any job I want.

Good luck finding a job after being out of the force for more then 6 months. That is quite the gap and going to need a lengthy explanation. Even if unemployment makes more then a job, it is a lazy substitute. And frankly I think it reflects some of the character. I could of just as easily taken unemployment 10x over, I could have also collected food stamps. After all I have paid into all these government programs, in fact why don't I get a bail-out I paid into that too. Furthermore why don't I get rides on the USS Reagan I helped pay for that, and maintain it. Or I can work hard make connections and add more experience to my resume.

 

[rp08orbust]

Good luck finding a job after being out of the force for more then 6 months. That is quite the gap and going to need a lengthy explanation. Even if unemployment makes more then a job, it is a lazy substitute. And frankly I think it reflects some of the character. I could of just as easily taken unemployment 10x over, I could have also collected food stamps. After all I have paid into all these government programs, in fact why don't I get a bail-out I paid into that too. Furthermore why don't I get rides on the USS Reagan I helped pay for that, and maintain it. Or I can work hard make connections and add more experience to my resume.

No doubt there are pros and cons to every form of combat against the state, no matter how ethically justified they are. Those who choose to weaken the state by leeching off welfare can become too comfortable doing so and lose the will to improve themselves. Those who choose to use defensive violence against the state can become too comfortable with killing and lose their sensitivity. Those who practice civil disobedience can lose their careers and families.

I'm not arguing that one method is better than another; I'm just providing an ethical defense for those who choose leeching.