Why Dr. Paul lost my support

I am a Christian and am glad to further the cause of true religious freedom. True faith cannot exist in a theocracy, because true faith must be voluntary. Voluntary faith cannot exist under a theocracy.

I believe in a Federal government that does not poke its nose at all into religion except where religion becomes disruptive to society. For example, Federal bans on spoken Christian prayer in school is a flat-out violation of the First Amendment because it is a law (judicial legislation) recognizing the establishment of religion. Unless spoken prayer is disruptive to the class, it should be allowed by all people of all faiths. At the same time, no law should be made hindering a Muslim's right to practice or an atheists right not to practice, as it may be, nor should any Federal law be made favoring Christianity or atheism.

In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment, which is, in my opinion, one of the most important Subsequent Amendments to the Constitution, extends the right to practice to everybody and rightly imposes the First Amendment upon the State and local governments. As long as the government does not make any law either way, church and state can coexist peacefully. That is what Thomas Jefferson meant when he wrote about the Separation of Church and State (which, by the way, is not mentioned in any law, so Ron Paul is correct there). Mr. Jefferson did not mean that there should be no church within state or no state within church as the result of a natural course. When you try and forcibly remove religion from public life, you get a specific type of socialism most prevalent in France, which results in widespread discrimination, especially against the most religious (which, in France's case, happens to be the large Muslim population).
 
I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.


How do you feel about Don't Ask, Don't Tell? That's the policy that prevents gays and lesbians in the military from revealing the fact that they're gay or lesbian. Most liberals are adamantly against DADT, especially on free speech grounds. But what they don't seem to connect with, is that the way they're interpreting "separation of church and state" is in a DADT manner. Liberals cannot stand it when a politician or other official, right down to the kindergarten aide, acknowledges their faith in front of others, and they do everything they can to stuff a sock in it so that nobody anywhere is permitted to so much as admit that they are Christian, much less boast about it. Liberals have made sure that to do so will get them censured or fired. It's DADT applied to religion, and it's sad really when 90+% of this country is Christian in some manner.

How would you react if I said, to borrow your own words: "I am straight, I have no problem with gays, but they have no place in our government."
 
How would you react if I said, to borrow your own words: "I am straight, I have no problem with gays, but they have no place in our government."

You're taking this out of context to make an improper comparison. The religion quote dealt with an idea while your quote uses people. The proper comparison using that quote would be: "I am straight, I have no problem with gays, but laws concerning sexual orientation have no place in our government."
 
Wasn't this country formed by Christian principles? I'm sure Ron Paul would never push any kind of religion down our throats either, so it's pretty much a non-issue. He also follows the Constitution and knows very well the meaning of the First Amendment. The principles of being good and having peace towards all and such are fine by me.
 
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You're taking this out of context to make an improper comparison. The religion quote dealt with an idea while your quote uses people. The proper comparison using that quote would be: "I am straight, I have no problem with gays, but laws concerning sexual orientation have no place in our government."

No we're clear it up even finer with this statement: "I am straight, I have no problems with homosexuality, but it has no place in our government."

For the record, I don't support DADT-style policies no matter what human characteristic they're applied to. I am merely trying to prompt the original poster to consider the actual boundaries of "separation of church and state." I don't believe the Constitution supports a complete blackout of religion, but I believe that's what the original poster wants himself. Prohibition of faith is just as much in violation of the 1st Amendment as Official Endorsement would be.
 
I don't think Ron Paul has been ambiguous about things.

Let's not act like the noise in this thread topic has anything to do with what Paul has stated as his position.

It's not that hard folks, freedom can be a big responsibility, but you don't have to be so scared.

All manner of things will be alright. But, first, you need to be free.
 
Ever since I heard about Dr. Paul and what he stood for I really wanted to do everything I could to get him elected. Over the past few months I have noticed a lot of things I really don't like. Today I read 2 quotes from him that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs". — Ron Paul

"Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage." - Ron Paul

I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.

You are missing the point - when our founders said we have been endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights - they were saying that no person or group of people (government) shall dictate who is worthy of liberty and who is not. Whether you believe you are on this planet as the result of a god or good luck is irrelevant. The key here is that our rights are as indivduals exist totally apart from any man-made political organization. Come on anyone who understands what Ron Paul is all apart understands this.
 
This guy sounds like the same person but under a different name on a different Ron Paul forum.

It's almost word for word...

If you think that Ron Paul would push Christianity on the American people, then you don't know much about Ron Paul and probably didn't really support him in the first place.

If you really understood where Ron Paul stands on these issues, you would never have asked the question.
 
I'm just cautious to react to someone who doesn't have many post under their belt.

You are out of line or don't you remember when you had only 10 posts?

His comment about state and religion makes more sense to me than what you posted.
 
You are out of line or don't you remember when you had only 10 posts?

His comment about state and religion makes more sense to me than what you posted.

ummm. ok? just trying to look out for trolls. sorry.
besides, my tenth post wasn't about why I don't support ron paul, placed on a ron paul forum. it would be like me, signing up on a fred thompson board and posting why fred lost my support. it makes sense to question the integrity of this thread. And to say it makes no sense... well, that is like Rudy saying he's never heard of such an explanation for 9/11.
Think. that is all I ask. remember. i'm on your team. had a bad day at work? kick a tree or something.
 
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No we're clear it up even finer with this statement: "I am straight, I have no problems with homosexuality, but it has no place in our government."

For the record, I don't support DADT-style policies no matter what human characteristic they're applied to. I am merely trying to prompt the original poster to consider the actual boundaries of "separation of church and state." I don't believe the Constitution supports a complete blackout of religion, but I believe that's what the original poster wants himself. Prohibition of faith is just as much in violation of the 1st Amendment as Official Endorsement would be.
I don't think religious freedom means a religious blackout. That is a point I made in my initial post in this thread. If the government recognizes it has no place in regulating religion, for or against, then religion will go on alongside government, and even possibly intermingling as part of a natural course of inculturation, but not by any law. Otherwise, what you have is French Socialism, which incites discrimination against the religious and violence in the streets.
 
This guy sounds like the same person but under a different name on a different Ron Paul forum.

It's almost word for word...

If you think that Ron Paul would push Christianity on the American people, then you don't know much about Ron Paul and probably didn't really support him in the first place.

If you really understood where Ron Paul stands on these issues, you would never have asked the question.

TROLL!
10 posts, negative thread title and no interest in the responses on this thread=TROLL
He got his negative little title in and he's gone.
 
Here are some of his other posts. He was here last at the time of the Bill Maher show.

Will Dr. Paul be on Real Time tonight?

This is gonna be a good one boys and girls!!! I will post a torrent of the show later, rest assured, you will be able to watch it.

Well that sucked! Number one, Dr. Paul was not a panelist. Number 2, the second he walked off stage they quit taking him seriously and concluded that Romney would get the nod. I will post the torrent as soon as its up.


He came here in May, posted the above, comes here now and makes this thread.

TROLL ALERT!

Can someone flag this guy? I don't know how to do that.
 
Non Argument

This is a silly non-argument.

Taken out of context, no supporting evidence, etc. etc.

Please research quotes before you post your glass half-empty fears.

1) Under the Constitution, the states will work it out.

2) Every major candidate is a globalist. Pro NAU which means the destruction of National Sovereignty and the Constitution. What you're telling us is, that's ok with you?

Is this CENTCOM disinfo bullshit or a cry for help?
 
The 14th Amendment was designed to ENSLAVE.

I am a Christian and am glad to further the cause of true religious freedom. True faith cannot exist in a theocracy, because true faith must be voluntary. Voluntary faith cannot exist under a theocracy.

I believe in a Federal government that does not poke its nose at all into religion except where religion becomes disruptive to society. For example, Federal bans on spoken Christian prayer in school is a flat-out violation of the First Amendment because it is a law (judicial legislation) recognizing the establishment of religion. Unless spoken prayer is disruptive to the class, it should be allowed by all people of all faiths. At the same time, no law should be made hindering a Muslim's right to practice or an atheists right not to practice, as it may be, nor should any Federal law be made favoring Christianity or atheism.

In addition, the Fourteenth Amendment, which is, in my opinion, one of the most important Subsequent Amendments to the Constitution, extends the right to practice to everybody and rightly imposes the First Amendment upon the State and local governments. As long as the government does not make any law either way, church and state can coexist peacefully. That is what Thomas Jefferson meant when he wrote about the Separation of Church and State (which, by the way, is not mentioned in any law, so Ron Paul is correct there). Mr. Jefferson did not mean that there should be no church within state or no state within church as the result of a natural course. When you try and forcibly remove religion from public life, you get a specific type of socialism most prevalent in France, which results in widespread discrimination, especially against the most religious (which, in France's case, happens to be the large Muslim population).

I agree with a lot of what you say except in bold and underlined italics.

NOTHING in our Constitution "extends the right" to WE THE PEOPLE. Our Individual Rights are UNalieniable. Our Rights PRE-date our Constitution. They are natural Rights.

The perverted idea that the Constitution of our American Republic "extends us rights" is communistic' bullshit, and is exactly how things were turned around to control you. IMO, this demonic idea is the furthest thing away from true Christianity that I know.

Also, the unConstitutional 14th Amendment was not properly ratified. It "granted" no Rights to Individuals that our federal Constitution, before that "Amendment," did not already protect or respect. The whole thing was a scam by our criminal Congress. It was an unConstitutional and invalid Amendment that was designed to look like it FREED but actually ENSLAVED.

(Yes, even back then, which President Andrew Jackson objected to its constitutionality by the way, our Congress were full of criminals like it is today.)

The design was to turn every "state Citizen" into a federally controlled "U.S. citizen." Have you ever signed anything that asked you "Are you a U.S. citizen?" Did you acknowledge you were?

Americans really need to learn their history to find out what happened to them.

In times of War, the General Government uses its opportunity to oppress its Countrymen.

op·press - to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: a people oppressed by totalitarianism.

"It is difficult to emphasize strongly enough, the importance of this memorandum written by Judge Perez. History is always written by the 'victor'. In this case — again — the victor was the small group of powerful U.S. and International financiers who have orchestrated every war in which Americans have fought and died, and who have installed their minions in all levels of both federal and state government today... executive, legislative, judicial, bureaucratic. Because this group also controls the media and the educational system in America, they have successfully promulgated their version of the War of Northern Aggression which they labeled the 'Civil War'."

For more about the fourteenth amendment, go to ...

http://www.SweetLiberty.org/fourteenth.amend.htm


Keep your eyes wide open my Liberty Seekers! :)

- SL
 
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ummm. ok? just trying to look out for trolls. sorry.
besides, my tenth post wasn't about why I don't support ron paul, placed on a ron paul forum. it would be like me, signing up on a fred thompson board and posting why fred lost my support. it makes sense to question the integrity of this thread. And to say it makes no sense... well, that is like Rudy saying he's never heard of such an explanation for 9/11.
Think. that is all I ask. remember. i'm on your team. had a bad day at work? kick a tree or something.

I feel that it is the right of a "troll" to post just like every one else, after all we must be awared of what the other side are thinking.
I say "If you only agree with what everyone else writes then you may as well placed a mirror infront of you and talk to yourself"

Even I have been called a troll for what I say against the Zionists... love it.
 
I agree with a lot of what you say except in bold and underlined italics.

NOTHING in our Constitution "extends the right" to WE THE PEOPLE. Our Individual Rights are inalieniable.

The perverted idea that the Constitution of our American Republic "extends us rights" is communistic' bullshit, and is exactly how things were turned around to control you.

Also, the unConstitutional 14th Amendment was not properly ratified. It "granted" no Rights to Individuals that our federal Constitution, before that "Amendment," did not already protect or respect. The whole thing was a scam by our criminal Congress. It was an unConstitutional and invalid Amendment that was designed to look like it FREED but actually ENSLAVED.

(Yes, even back then, which President Andrew Jackson objected to its constitutionality by the way, our Congress were full of criminals like it is today.)

The design was to turn every "state Citizen" into a federally controlled "U.S. citizen." Have you ever signed anything that asked you "Are you a U.S. citizen?" Did you acknowledge you were?

Americans really need to learn their history to find out what happened to them.

"It is difficult to emphasize strongly enough, the importance of this memorandum written by Judge Perez. History is always written by the 'victor'. In this case — again — the victor was the small group of powerful U.S. and International financiers who have orchestrated every war in which Americans have fought and died, and who have installed their minions in all levels of both federal and state government today... executive, legislative, judicial, bureaucratic. Because this group also controls the media and the educational system in America, they have successfully promulgated their version of the War of Northern Aggression which they labeled the 'Civil War'."

For more about the fourteenth amendment, go to ...

http://www.SweetLiberty.org/fourteenth.amend.htm


Keep your eyes wide open my Liberty Seekers! :)

- SL

Good post...
 
I feel that it is the right of a "troll" to post just like every one else, after all we must be awared of what the other side are thinking.
I say "If you only agree with what everyone else writes then you may as well placed a mirror infront of you and talk to yourself"

Even I have been called a troll for what I say against the Zionists... love it.

When you KNOW you're standing up for Liberty, and yet others still attack you, then BE PROUD! Rest assured, you're dealing death blows to their bad ideas of enslavement, and you are fighting for Liberty for us all. I thank you!

The REAL War ... is the FIGHT against bad ideas that enslave mankind.

To Liberty and Justice for ALL! :)

- SL
 
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Here are some of his other posts. He was here last at the time of the Bill Maher show.

Will Dr. Paul be on Real Time tonight?

This is gonna be a good one boys and girls!!! I will post a torrent of the show later, rest assured, you will be able to watch it.

Well that sucked! Number one, Dr. Paul was not a panelist. Number 2, the second he walked off stage they quit taking him seriously and concluded that Romney would get the nod. I will post the torrent as soon as its up.


He came here in May, posted the above, comes here now and makes this thread.

TROLL ALERT!

Can someone flag this guy? I don't know how to do that.

Yet his posted has incited some excellent discussion here. So I'm not sure what the problem is.
 
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