Why do people hate Christianity?

For immorality to exist one must first presuppose a source of ultimate morality to exist, via a chief arbitor of some sort. Attempting to justify our definitions right and wrong simply from nature is wholly circular because we must first define morality from an anthropocentric perspective. No doubt, morality in nature is conditional. And any study of this planet's history and the evolution of life will demonstrate that morality has minimal utility, at best. Take the axiom "murder is immoral." Is murder immoral under all circumstances or just some? Is this an absolute statement or a relative one? Would you not murder, cheat, or steal to feed your starving children? Of course, because evolution has favored those individuals. Those with absolute moral codes simply die because they are always inferior competitors. Largely because they cannot adapt to a changing environment. Ergo, claiming that man can be 'moral' without God is partially correct. He can be moral in his own mind under a subjective, ultimately arbitrary, contrived, bullshit delusion. Therefore, is a man justified in punishing another for what is unilaterally conditional? Therefore, your indignation against the precepts brought forth in the Bible are simply your opinion. A universal moral code cannot accurately be defined without first accepting a Universal Judge from which Truth is absolute.
Haha I can't help but laugh. You spent more words on the subject than is needed. The only moral code I need is the non aggression principle. The bible has over 1k pages and it doesn't even cover that principle. The golden rule comes close but not close enough.

You are the one who cited Luther and Calvin as idols on morality. I pointed out how barbaric they were.

I don't need the bible to be moral. I am more moral than the bible.
 
Haha I can't help but laugh. You spent more words on the subject than is needed. The only moral code I need is the non aggression principle. The bible has over 1k pages and it doesn't even cover that principle. The golden rule comes close but not close enough.

You are the one who cited Luther and Calvin as idols on morality. I pointed out how barbaric they were.

What of those who do not subscribe to the NAP? Would not forcing those individuals to accept such doctrine constitute aggression?

I never said Calvin and Luther were perfect. Actually, I never said they were moral idols, either. I made the (correct) statement that their influence was the primary reason for the Enlightenment and freedom in the United States.
 
The only moral code I need is the non aggression principle.


The only code "you need"?

So you are just wallowing in subjectivism. Why is it wrong to reject the non-aggression principle?
 
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What of those who do not subscribe to the NAP? Would not forcing those individuals to accept such doctrine constitute aggression?
"Forcing those individuals" would not be something I would ever do because it violates the NAP. Instead I'm ready to defend myself against such aggressors.

I never said Calvin and Luther were perfect. Actually, I never said they were moral idols, either. I made the (correct) statement that their influence was the primary reason for the Enlightenment and freedom in the United States.
And I pointed out that they weren't a source of enlightenment. Anyone that executes free thinkers and scientists are the equivalent of cavemen.
 
"Forcing those individuals" would not be something I would ever do because it violates the NAP. Instead I'm ready to defend myself against such aggressors.

But those individuals have done nothing wrong in their mind.

What physical evidence do you present that NAP exists?
 
Christians Murdered Indians



Even in the initial stages of contact between European Christians and
Native Indian people the stage was set for ethnocentrism, and the
attitude towards the Indians was that of Christian superiority. The
Indians were read a proclamation in Spanish which they had no hope of
understanding, they had no hope of understanding the death sentence they
were being read, and it went something like this:
"We ask and require you to acknowledge the church as the ruler and
superior of the whole world and the high priest called pope and in his
name the king of Spain as lords of this land. If you submit we shall
receive you in all love and charity and shall leave you, your wives and
children and your lands free without servitude, but if you do not submit
we shall powerfully enter into your country and shall make war against
you, we shall take you and your wives and your children and shall make
slaves of them and we shall take away your goods and shall do you all
the harm and damage we can."


2000 years ago we were all tribal.
Then came the missionaries with their fucking bible.
1492 began the termination
The holocaust of our Indian nations
Yeah, with Christian love and a moral authority
They killed our medicine men and stole our country
I never claimed this shit was poetry
It's just the fucking lies of Christianity
You will pray to the lord and get down on your knees
Here's a cross for your back and the coughing disease
Though you helped us survive we will laugh while you bleed
Then deny what we did, write our own history
We will kidnap your children and cut off their hair
Silence their language and outlaw their prayers
Beat them blind until they believe
In the blood of Jesus Christ our king
Christians murdered Indians
Columbus murdered children and now we have a holiday
Still you want to deny your history
Look to the sky for your god to justify
As you commit cultural genocide
Christians came and the natives they did hang
13 at a time for Jesus and his gang
We are the ones you had to dehumanize
So your murder and greed could be justified
The belly of the church is full
With the blood of all those heathen fools
Who would not receive the gift of Christ?
So we burned them as a sacrifice
To our baby killing god above
To our mother church and all her love
We will steal their gods and subjugate
Those who don't believe we'll ahnilate

"The Spaniards made bets as to who would slit a man in two or cut of
his head with one blow. They tore babies from their mother's breast by
their feet and dashed their head against the rocks. They hanged Indians
by thirteen in honor and reverence for their redeemer and their twelve
apostles. They put wood underneath and with fire burned the Indians
alive."


Christians murdered Indians
We believe in the earth, the sky and dreams
The universe and the creator who gave us these
The sacred gift of life and human beings
That makes you perpetrate the hate to ahnilate
So here I am the savage civilized
Voice of the dead and my ancestor's cries
And like the ghosts of this land you can't erase
I see blood on the hands of the master race.
500 years of manifest destiny
500 years of resistance to the enemy
You have faith in the rivers, the mountains, the trees
We've a murdering god to replace all of these
With the blood of forgiveness you too can be free
Or the wrath of Jehovah you're sure to receive
We will baptize you with the blood of the lamb
With the sword and the gospel we will conquer your land
You will join our church and be glad to be saved
Or we'll slaughter your children and your women we'll rape.
Christians murdered Indians
I see blood on the hands of the master race.
 
I don't hate anyone or anything, except maybe Friday afternoon traffic. However, Most self proclaimed christians I've met make every effort to hate people who are different than themselves. Even other Christians.. Baptists vs Seventh Days vs Presbyterians vs Lutherans vs Anglicans vs etc. I decided I wanted no part of that hate, so I don't bother to associate with Haters, and thus I have not attended church for anything but funerals in almost 20 years. I have a Mormon, a Catholic, a Baptist, two Muslims, two Buddhists, five Atheists, and a Jew that I consider my close friends who I've never heard any hate from. Hate is a state of mind that I don't need in my life.
 
I think different moral codes can arise from experience and observation.


I'm not an expert in Buddhism, but I think it favors laying out a guide more than commandments or a rigid moral law. Instead it I think it tries to observe and explain cause and effect. That if individuals and communities strive to live wisely they are more likely to be happy in the long run.

On the other hand consider a person like Bernie Madoff. He only had his sights on short term gain even while he probably knew he'd created a house of cards with his Ponzi scheme that would fall apart. It was like a poison to himself and everyone involved with it. We can look at these things and see how plainly destructive bad behavior is.

So one idea I would explore is what secular governments would base their laws on. Some kind of moral code from either philosophers or even a religion? Probably not. I think Law would be based on stopping destructive behavior like Crime. Especially criminal behavior that violates the personal safety and security of other individuals that make up society.

In someways I think invoking Moral Codes causes many of our problems because people try to make these ideas into Law. That is where prohibition came out of. Even some neocons probably have the crazy idea that we are spreading America's exceptionalism and Moral Values to other nations.

The more I think about it, the more I have reservations about things like Moral Codes and religious Commandments. I don't think these things are effective. I think the most we can do is create laws based on a common desire for order and security. Then as long as people don't harm others let them do what they want to.
 
I have a Mormon, a Catholic, a Baptist, two Muslims, two Buddhists, five Atheists, and a Jew that I consider my close friends who I've never heard any hate from.

There wouldn't be any real major disagreements between them theologically. They all believe that they work synergistically with God's grace in salvation. They all believe that their personal righteousness will be acceptable to God.
 
Why is it wrong to violate someone's "natural rights"?
Because it represents their unjustifiable death or stolen property. Stealing and murdering is wrong. Nobody should need religion to explain that. It's common sense.
 
Why is it wrong to steal?
Because actions have consequences. Keep trying to corner me on morality. It won't work. I don't need a man, messiah, or god to justify my actions. The Non aggression principle is better than the bible.
 
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