Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

So, its been over a year since people were posting a lot on this topic. The government continues to expand beyond control and our chances at freedom coming first from the national level are dwindling. Now more than ever I believe that we need to concentrate activism in one area so we have a better shot at success. Even with the few hundred people that have made the move early, the FSP is having some great successes. Imagine if we got 20,000 to make the move!

So I ask again, one year later, if you have not signed up for the Free State Project (which only means you will pledge to move within 5 years after 20,000 others sign), what is holding you back?
 
Moving to NH as part of the Free State Project was one of the best decisions in my life. I am so glad to be here with so many others who love liberty. Moving here was instantly rewarding and just keeps getting better as more people move!
 
I'd love to be with you guys in NH, but there's no way I can afford the property taxes in Keene. Is Grafton any better?
 
I may visit just to check it out, but as far as moving there goes... ehhhh. Maybe when I finish college. I currently live in California, and it will be hard to leave paradise for New England.
 
I'd love to be with you guys in NH, but there's no way I can afford the property taxes in Keene. Is Grafton any better?

Keene is one of many places in NH and has the 2nd highest property taxes in the state. Can you really afford to keep living where you are? Sure is nice being around an ever-increasing number of liberty-lovers. Is that happening anywhere else?
 
I may visit just to check it out, but as far as moving there goes... ehhhh. Maybe when I finish college. I currently live in California, and it will be hard to leave paradise for New England.

I moved from Florida and I'd rather be cold with people who love freedom than on the beach with statists.
 
Keene is one of many places in NH and has the 2nd highest property taxes in the state. Can you really afford to keep living where you are? Sure is nice being around an ever-increasing number of liberty-lovers. Is that happening anywhere else?

That's happening in very few other places around the country, I must admit. I'm not trying to knock the FSP in any way; in fact, I love the idea and I've been bugging the crap out of my family to go to Porcfest with me for a couple years now. I'm just curious if there's either a low-tax haven in the state, or a remote possibility of a lowering of property taxes now that FSPers have picked up some state and local seats.
 
That's happening in very few other places around the country, I must admit. I'm not trying to knock the FSP in any way; in fact, I love the idea and I've been bugging the crap out of my family to go to Porcfest with me for a couple years now. I'm just curious if there's either a low-tax haven in the state, or a remote possibility of a lowering of property taxes now that FSPers have picked up some state and local seats.

Everywhere outside of Keene is lower-taxed. You could live in a surrounding town, enjoy the convenience of Keene, and not have to pay the same taxes. That said, despite the burden of property taxes in NH, do remember that the overall tax burden is comparatively low to other states. No income or sales tax (though there is an awful meals tax).

Also, buying a multifamily home and renting to other activists is a great way to cover the costs of living in Keene.

Yes, of course there is a chance for tax reform, but it's still pretty early for that. Maybe you could come help with that process?
 
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I'm no longer a "Free Stater"

I've known Ian for 6 years now and I signed up for "The Free State Project" about that time. I've since decided that although it's a good idea, it will not work. I spent a great deal of those 6 years listening to Ian's "Freetalk Live" and calling the show and posting on his BBS. I have to say that it's hard to find a meaner bunch of people than those associated with "Freetalk" when it comes to one having a "belief" in a "Creator".

The entire 6 years I called about liberty issues and even nurtured Ian along on his path to liberty. Many of the very arguments he makes daily now I presented to him on his show. I certainly do not claim 100% of the credit as many other liberty minded people also called him and helped him along the path to liberty. Yet he still doesn't get something very basic to the success of the liberty movement - YOU NEED A BIG TENT!!! There's no way 10000 people will ever make a difference in this big land we call the USA (a legal fiction...). Even a million will make no difference. You must not exclude those who are "close" to understanding liberty.

Ian is very good a being a "divider". He will accept your call to his show but if you do not accept HIS idea of what a liberty minded person is, he will shut you down. I no longer listen to his show or call in anymore because he decided that I was not "good enough" for his show and rather than have the balls to tell me so, he would put me on hold for 1-2 hours until the end of the show. Those in his circle and those on his BBS will spew hatred toward any who have a belief in the creator, but they will accept with open arms any kind of fringe behavior. You can see what I put up with for 6 years on his BBS with my thread "Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer" http://bbs.freetalklive.com/hijack-free-zone/christian-anarchy-is-the-only-sensible-answer/

I always presented my arguments in a civil tone and was frequently met with hostile tones and spamming tactics like posting porn in my thread. I put up with it for a long time until I decided to fight fire with fire and I started posting awful gory death photos in the threads of those who were attacking me. That pretty much put an end to those tactics but then they decided to simply ignore me in hopes that I will go away but that hasn't worked either. I'm too damn stubborn!! ;)

Anyway, I said all that to say this: Many of the "liberty activists" who seem to be associated with the Freestate Project are rabidly anti-christian (I suppose they are also rabidly anti-Jewish and anti-Arab but they don't have the courage to take such a politically incorrect stance). They (especially Ian) are also quick to try to divide the liberty movement on minor issues - even actively attacking Rand Paul (and Dr. Paul too) on minor issues instead of supporting him on the issues that really count. If it were up to Ian, he would love to have seen Rand lose that seat.

If you review my thread above, you will see that I never tried to shove my belief down anyones throat but rather made my points and let others respond in kind. It was civil unless someone else decided to get nasty.

So what you have with Ian and perhaps to a lessor extent others in NH are DIVIDERS. People who want to EXCLUDE men like Rand Paul (and of course me as well) because they differ on 10% of the issues. As long as they have this attitude of exclusion, they will never succeed and so I have decided that my family WILL NOT move to NH. Really there is no need as people across the continent are waking up to the ideas of liberty. The chains are becoming apparent to more and more people every day and the house of cards is falling. It is more likely that the federal government will cease to exist before 10000 liberty minded people move to NH.
 
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Hey Christian Anarchist,

I guess you didn't know that Michele Seven, our Monday night co-host is a devoted Christian.

Sorry you don't like my rule that frequent callers come last. The point is to get new voices on the air if possible, so your listeners don't keep hearing from the same ten chronic callers.

Good luck to you in Tennessee.
 
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Also, Gene cites the behaviour of people on the FTL BBS as somehow representative of the Free State Project, which doesn't make any sense. Perhaps his critique would be more valid if he'd actually talked to Free State Project participants in real life at the Liberty Forum or Porcfest.

There are some of the nicest Christians here without chips on their shoulder, and I enjoy their company as much as the un-churched and the atheists.
 
Anyway, I said all that to say this: Many of the "liberty activists" who seem to be associated with the Freestate Project are rabidly anti-christian (I suppose they are also rabidly anti-Jewish and anti-Arab but they don't have the courage to take such a politically incorrect stance). They (especially Ian) are also quick to try to divide the liberty movement on minor issues - even actively attacking Rand Paul (and Dr. Paul too) on minor issues instead of supporting him on the issues that really count. If it were up to Ian, he would love to have seen Rand lose that seat.

Finally, this is just misinformed. I have called out the Pauls when they were wrong on liberty, but I contributed hundreds of dollars to Ron Paul's campaign. (Though not a dime to Rand - I can't support an advocate of aggressive war.)

Anyway, the Free State Project has Christians and atheists and Quakers, and agnostics, and Jews, and Buddhists, and others, and we all get along fine, from what I've seen. Liberty brings people together, it doesn't divide. Even though we don't all agree on what the best path to liberty is, we all agree that it's here in NH. If you think you'll be free someday where you are, you shouldn't move.
 
Gene, I think you are pretty far off on your critique. Although I think Ian can be quite stubborn at times and tend to agree with Mark on things (despite being an anarchist), he does not and cannot represent all the present or future movers for the Free State Project. I don't see how the show Free Talk Live and/or its message board has any bearing on what the Free State Project can accomplish.

There are many FSP signers/movers like myself who are fine with a very broad tent despite being extremely principled on the ideas of liberty. And what does religion have to do with liberty? I am "rabidly" anti-religion but that is a separate belief from liberty in my opinion. And myself and others would never put down people because of their beliefs.
 
Whatever Ian and Mark say, it certainly shouldn't discourage anyone for joining and moving to NH. They really don't even show up at most of the events in Keene and they don't go up to liberty activists that don't like them at events are start acting rude to them. Heck, even if you hated Ian you could still have a great time in Keene and almost never see him. Of course, no one here is that petty, anyway :)

Additionally, Keene is just one city in NH. There are around 200 different towns/cities for you to chose from. And the temperature even varies some from place to place, as does snowfall amount.
 
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Ian's "faulty memory"

Hey Christian Anarchist,

I guess you didn't know that Michele Seven, our Monday night co-host is a devoted Christian.

I do not remember ever hearing her - she must be new

Sorry you don't like my rule that frequent callers come last. The point is to get new voices on the air if possible, so your listeners don't keep hearing from the same ten chronic callers.

This is either poor memory on your part, or an outright lie. Only you know which. I had ceased being a "frequent caller" having only called your show 3 times in a month. You still put me on hold for over 1.5 hours and then came on the line after the show to try to claim that you were unable to get me on. Just man up Ian and tell me the truth. You don't like me and you don't want me on your show. I'm a man, I can take it...

Also, your show USED to be about the callers and you would only do your preaching bit when there was a break in the action, but now your show is no longer "about the callers" and it's dishonest of you to make that claim. Now your show (well, at least the last time I tried listening to it) is composed of guests and your rants. Only a small percentage of the show is about callers anymore and even then, you are cherry picking your callers (as evidenced above). How are you any different than Rush?
 
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Whatever Ian and Mark say, it certainly shouldn't discourage anyone for joining and moving to NH. They really don't even show up at most of the events in Keene and they don't go up to liberty activists that don't like them at events are start acting rude to them. Heck, even if you hated Ian you could still have a great time in Keene and almost never see him. Of course, no one here is that petty, anyway :)

Additionally, Keene is just one city in NH. There are around 200 different towns/cities for you to chose from. And the temperature even varies some from place to place, as does snowfall amount.

My point was not that "people were mean to me so don't move to NH". My point was that the federal government fiction will cease to be an issue long before you get your goal in NH. No harm in trying though. I hope you succeed...
 
Also, Gene cites the behaviour of people on the FTL BBS as somehow representative of the Free State Project, which doesn't make any sense. Perhaps his critique would be more valid if he'd actually talked to Free State Project participants in real life at the Liberty Forum or Porcfest.

There are some of the nicest Christians here without chips on their shoulder, and I enjoy their company as much as the un-churched and the atheists.

A few months ago I posted that I was planning a trip to NH to check it out and guess how many people responded? One. Mark was the only one who responded at all. If that's all the interest I can muster for a trip to N.H. then I really can't waste my time and money. (I'm going to a surgeon this week to see about having that chip removed)
 
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This is either poor memory on your part, or an outright lie. Only you know which. I had ceased being a "frequent caller" having only called your show 3 times in a month. You still put me on hold for over 1.5 hours and then came on the line after the show to try to claim that you were unable to get me on. Just man up Ian and tell me the truth. You don't like me and you don't want me on your show. I'm a man, I can take it...

Also, your show USED to be about the callers and you would only do your preaching bit when there was a break in the action, but now your show is no longer "about the callers" and it's dishonest of you to make that claim. Now your show (well, at least the last time I tried listening to it) is composed of guests and your rants. Only a small percentage of the show is about callers anymore and even then, you are cherry picking your callers (as evidenced above). How are you any different than Rush?

I do not listen to FTL anymore for the same reason. After having a similar experience and emailing Ian, I received the same justification. Despite the fact I think it's a shitty practice to string someone up on hold for a couple hours just because they are a regular caller, I do not hold any animosity against Ian personally, the FSP, or anyone in Keene over what I personally deem to be a crappy practice.

I still maintain an interest in Keene, the FSP, and check their sites occasionally to keep updated. When I was an active listener of FTL I thought they put on a good show and discussion.
 
Gene, I feel no negativity towards you and I appreciate that you have participated in FTL and been a listener.

Even though you were calling less-often, I still made you hold because I want new callers to have priority. Sorry you don't like that, but I can't please everyone. You insisted on calling on Saturday nights, when we have a high load of calls from newbies. Had you called on a weeknight, you'd have gotten in much faster. Sometimes we will go a full hour without a single phone call.

It's nothing personal against you. Any caller I recognize goes to the end of the line.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Where did you post your message about visiting NH, Gene? If it was on the FTL BBS then you should not be surprised at not getting a response - THAT IS NOT AN FSP FORUM! Most of the people there have nothing to do with NH activism. Try http://forum.freestateproject.org instead.
 
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