Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

[Libertarian Ideals]

IMHO the FSP is a tool. The name is irrelevant to what the vast majority of us are doing here (almost all activists are anarchists, even those working within the political system). The FSP is just a bus to move here. The name is totally irrelevant.

 

[Libertarian Ideals]

I disagree. I think that trying to shrink government and getting some minarchists into power would result in a much better situation than right now and hopefully pave the way for true freedom. However, I think civil disobedience, non-compliance, and market activism would be a much better route to freedom.

Also, without the minarchists getting the wheels turning in people's heads there would be practically no anarchists. I know I wouldn't be for complete freedom if I wasn't first exposed to what seemed like a much less radical philosophy. It seems like the overwhelming majority of anarchists have followed this path.

You should watch episodes of The Prisoner with us here in Winchester, NH on Wednesdays. Last episode we watched there was an election, a man got into office, he tried to tell everyone they were free and shut down the state apparatus. No one understood him because they forgot what freedom was. Also, the body guards of the state apparatus turned on the elected leader who tried to give people freedom.
You wouldn't seek CEO status of General Motors and then close it down because they were committed mass injustices, you would compete with them (agorism), stage boycotts and civil disobedience, also use Jury Nullification and their Corporate bylaws (allegory to the Constitution) against them to close them down and make your competing businesses (agora, the counter-economy) successful.
Politics has an attractive appeal, but the appeal is deceptive for any large, worthy changes.

 

[RevolutionSD]

You should watch episodes of The Prisoner with us here in Winchester, NH on Wednesdays. Last episode we watched there was an election, a man got into office, he tried to tell everyone they were free and shut down the state apparatus. No one understood him because they forgot what freedom was. Also, the body guards of the state apparatus turned on the elected leader who tried to give people freedom.
You wouldn't seek CEO status of General Motors and then close it down because they were committed mass injustices, you would compete with them (agorism), stage boycotts and civil disobedience, also use Jury Nullification and their Corporate bylaws (allegory to the Constitution) against them to close them down and make your competing businesses (agora, the counter-economy) successful.
Politics has an attractive appeal, but the appeal is deceptive for any large, worthy changes.

Great post and this is my point.

You CANNOT turn the mafia around, and you cannot turn an inherently violent organization like government around.

Even IF you could achieve the dream of a state with small gov't, it would quickly turn back into what we have today- because people would demand it, and politicians would immediately go back to promising the world to get elected.

We need to eliminate the very IDEA that we need government, otherwise, we're just doing what libertarians have done for hundreds of years- spin wheels trying to do the impossible, to reform a criminal organization.

 

[powerofreason]

I turned 18 about a month ago and joined the FSP. New Hampshire is the place to be if you love freedom and want more of it.

 

[OferNave]

385th post!

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Been thinking all day on how to answer this. I don't want to go off on a major tangent, or sound like an attack. My answer in simplistic terms comes down to the primary. Let me try to expand though on that and explain.

It was not so much the fact that Ron Paul did not do well in New Hampshire. He did not do that great anywhere sadly. What made the NH loss so difficult was the hype beforehand. Everyone from the FSP was clamoring about the "Victory" they were going to have. They had spoke of the tons of support, and progress they were making in getting the vote.

Along came the primary and there was completely nothing even close to what had been announced. Ron Paul did just as bad as anywhere else.

So how does this affect a decision not to participate in the FSP? Easily, they have been all hype before. Until I see some true progress then its will by all hyp again as far as im concerned.

 

[mport1]

Been thinking all day on how to answer this. I don't want to go off on a major tangent, or sound like an attack. My answer in simplistic terms comes down to the primary. Let me try to expand though on that and explain.

It was not so much the fact that Ron Paul did not do well in New Hampshire. He did not do that great anywhere sadly. What made the NH loss so difficult was the hype beforehand. Everyone from the FSP was clamoring about the "Victory" they were going to have. They had spoke of the tons of support, and progress they were making in getting the vote.

Along came the primary and there was completely nothing even close to what had been announced. Ron Paul did just as bad as anywhere else.

So how does this affect a decision not to participate in the FSP? Easily, they have been all hype before. Until I see some true progress then its will by all hyp again as far as im concerned.

There are currently only 666 people who are Free State Project members in New Hampshire. You can't expect him to do that well when the project hasn't even really gotten started. The point of the FSP is to move 20,000 liberty lovers to the area once that many sign up (or over 30 times the number who have moved so far). There was very optimistic talk about New Hampshire like other places but as we were shown again and again, the numbers didn't play out in reality. Additionally, there were some factors against him like that he didn't campaign much there, it was early in the primaries and not many people knew about him, there were a number of candidates still in the race diluting the votes for him, etc.

 

[Libertarian Ideals]

Been thinking all day on how to answer this. I don't want to go off on a major tangent, or sound like an attack. My answer in simplistic terms comes down to the primary. Let me try to expand though on that and explain.

It was not so much the fact that Ron Paul did not do well in New Hampshire. He did not do that great anywhere sadly. What made the NH loss so difficult was the hype beforehand. Everyone from the FSP was clamoring about the "Victory" they were going to have. They had spoke of the tons of support, and progress they were making in getting the vote.

Along came the primary and there was completely nothing even close to what had been announced. Ron Paul did just as bad as anywhere else.

So how does this affect a decision not to participate in the FSP? Easily, they have been all hype before. Until I see some true progress then its will by all hyp again as far as im concerned.

As an early mover, I don't think the Free State Project is hyped (not during my time with the Free State Project community anyway. I wasn't a FSPer during the Ron Paul campaign in NH). Most are not convinced until they actually get a whiff of the air of New Hampshire and meet a few of us, makes quite a lot of sense. That's why PorcFest and the Liberty Forum are advertised as much as they are: they are the prime motivator for people to move to New Hampshire.

The Free State Project is looking for 20,000 pledged movers. If 20,000 is not reached, you are not committed to anything (Edit: even more, you can personally choose the specific, individual triggers for a move.) If 20,000 is reached, there would be great reason to stay committed to the previous pledge and make the move, seeing as 19,999 others would be joining you. This would give New Hampshire the highest concentration of libertarians in the world, and probably encourage many more to move. So I would recommend that if you are reasonably interested and and a lover of liberty, go ahead and sign up!

 

[mport1]

On a side note it is good to see that the FSP is now advertising on these boards. Hopefully that will lead to some extra sign ups.

 

[studebaker]

Support the Free State Project

Wow almost 400 posts!
First a comical comment and not picking on anyone ... but posting on a libertarian forum about "I'll move to NH if I'm promised a ...... (fill in what you what someone else to give you)? Made me smile.

I have met people who moved to NH ... singles, couples, families and those that gone on ahead of their families to establish a new place for them to come to and there is not a single mover that I know of (update me on someone I missed) that is not providing for themselves. It can be done, the infrastructure is here, come to PorcFest 2009 http://www.porcfest.com and do some networking. I have been trying to make my move for 2-3 years just from CT so I know the issues involved from moving from a town where four generations of my family have settled. I have set a date of Nov. 2009 to have my new home in Grafton, NH http://www.townofgrafton.com/

Over 35 years I've heard the "talk" about living free ... this is the first time I have met people willing to stand together in the attempt of that goal and I am going there to do my part in supporting them and the goal and hopefully laying the foundation for others to build on.

For those that can't make it right now, try to later. Those with children, educate them on what we are doing in NH so when the time come that they need to "find the own place" we will be here laying the ground work because we believe in the FSP Statement of Intent concept http://www.freestateproject.org/soi and will work in or own ways for personal Liberties and Freedoms.

In the mean time I would ask members here that believe in the idea to at least help us to advertise the FSP, ask for pamphlets, bumper stickers ... ask friends and other forum members to advertise the FSP.
Spread the word, yes it may take decades but I for one will be on the front lines. I decided I will no longer be one that talks of Liberty yet "expects someone else to provide it to me at their expense".

 

[FSP-Rebel]

What studebaker said... I just moved this last Sunday and I've already got active with open carrying and calling my reps/senators to have them keep the seatbelt bill tabled permanently. Progress is being made and we have at least 6 participants that have been elected to the state house and many more that have been elected to local offices. Does any other state have anything close to this many libertarians elected to this many positions? More will come in 2010. Get here soon and you can be a part of it. If not, donate to pro-liberty NH candidates @ http://www.nhliberty.org/donate. Or join us @ http://freestateproject.org, we'd love to have you and your families.

 

[Bruno]

Wow almost 400 posts!
First a comical comment and not picking on anyone ... but posting on a libertarian forum about "I'll move to NH if I'm promised a ...... (fill in what you what someone else to give you)? Made me smile.

I have met people who moved to NH ... singles, couples, families and those that gone on ahead of their families to establish a new place for them to come to and there is not a single mover that I know of (update me on someone I missed) that is not providing for themselves. It can be done, the infrastructure is here, come to PorcFest 2009 http://www.porcfest.com and do some networking. I have been trying to make my move for 2-3 years just from CT so I know the issues involved from moving from a town where four generations of my family have settled. I have set a date of Nov. 2009 to have my new home in Grafton, NH http://www.townofgrafton.com/

Over 35 years I've heard the "talk" about living free ... this is the first time I have met people willing to stand together in the attempt of that goal and I am going there to do my part in supporting them and the goal and hopefully laying the foundation for others to build on.

For those that can't make it right now, try to later. Those with children, educate them on what we are doing in NH so when the time come that they need to "find the own place" we will be here laying the ground work because we believe in the FSP Statement of Intent concept http://www.freestateproject.org/soi and will work in or own ways for personal Liberties and Freedoms.

In the mean time I would ask members here that believe in the idea to at least help us to advertise the FSP, ask for pamphlets, bumper stickers ... ask friends and other forum members to advertise the FSP.
Spread the word, yes it may take decades but I for one will be on the front lines. I decided I will no longer be one that talks of Liberty yet "expects someone else to provide it to me at their expense".

Great 1st post! Welcome!

 

[mport1]

Apparently this years PorcFest was A LOT bigger than the one last year! I suspect that the number of activists in New Hampshire will grow exponentially in future years.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

Apparently this years PorcFest was A LOT bigger than the one last year! I suspect that the number of activists in New Hampshire will grow exponentially in future years.

You can bet your bottom dollar on that. We just had like 5 new movers from the festival and many more are trying to tie up loose ends to make the move before the next fest. We had a major Mi caucus there and it's obvious as to why.

 

[Dreamofunity]

Once I get freed from all liabilities where I'm at I'm thinking about moving up. I wanted to move somewhere north considering I hate the heat here, and if I'm going north I might as well go to New Hampshire. It won't be for a considerable more amount of years if I decide to do it, but there's always the possibility.

 

[literatim]

I would hope Free Staters are trying to get elected in the state senate and house.

 

[mport1]

I would hope Free Staters are trying to get elected in the state senate and house.

There have already been a handful of movers elected (which is impressive considering the small size of people that have moved and the 2 years you must wait before running). There are also a lot of NH Liberty endorsed candidates that won their elections last year.

However, I think the civil disobedience and non-cooperation activism that is going on there is more exciting. I think that is the much faster path to freedom than using the political process.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

There have already been a handful of movers elected (which is impressive considering the small size of people that have moved and the 2 years you must wait before running). There are also a lot of NH Liberty endorsed candidates that won their elections last year.

However, I think the civil disobedience and non-cooperation activism that is going on there is more exciting. I think that is the much faster path to freedom than using the political process.

Regarding NH Liberty Alliance endorsed candidates, there where ~90ish. Regarding civil dis, I'd say it's exciting but most people will realize change through politics, unfortunately. Civil dis is like asking for a target to be put on your back, but be my guest if you have brass balls.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

I meant, 90+ NHLA candidates that won last time around, 2010 will see more. What other state has that many pro-liberty folks winning office anywhere in the country, let alone the FSPers that have won? If you like this progress, look us up @ http://freestateproject.org We also have out-of-the-system activists as well and they do great things, check them out @ http://freekeene.com. We'd love to have ya.

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

Thought I should get around to posting in this thread.

I am not moving for 2 reasons.

1. It's New Hampshire.
2. I already live in the 2nd freeist state in the Union.