Why aren’t libertarians rejecting Rand Paul’s fight against Planned Parenthood?

[nikcers]

To me I don't oppose cutting funding to planned parenthood because that's all its doing, its cutting government funding from an organization not prohibiting anyone from doing anything they want to do. If you want to contribute to planned parenthood then go ahead open your wallets and contribute.

 

[Sola_Fide]

My whole point about ethics being grounded in subjective desires is that that's the same question.

"X is wrong" = "I dislike X"

"Why is X wrong?" = "Why don't you like X?"

No those don't equal each other. If they did equal each other, then you would be proposing relativism, which you said you weren't.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

No those don't equal each other. If they did equal each other, then you would be proposing relativism, which you said you weren't.

Not at all.

As I already explained, the fact that ethics are expressions of subjective desire does not entail that a person should tolerate all ethical views.

Just as the fact that taste in food is an expression of subjective desire does not entail that a person should like all foods equally.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Not at all.

As I already explained, the fact that ethics are expressions of subjective desire does not entail that a person should tolerate all ethical views.

Just as the fact that taste in food is an expression of subjective desire does not entail that a person should like all foods equally.

So to you, the question of something like murder is on the level of food choice.

You haven't thought through your worldview. Your view of "ethics" is the foundation for the most egregious tyrannical situations in the world.

 

[LibertyRevolution]

Resident atheist libertarian checking in here...

I don't view a first trimester fetus as a person, so I don't consider an abortion at that point an act of aggression towards another person.

That being said, I still think Planned Parenthood should be defunded.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

So to you, the question of something like murder is on the level of food choice.

Both are rooted in subjective desire, though obviously the one is much more important than the other (i.e. the corresponding subjective desire is much more strongly felt).

Your view of "ethics" is the foundation for the most egregious tyrannical situations in the world.

How so?

 

[dillo]

Im pretty undecided on this issue, but ive talked to sever pro choicers that are disgusted by planned parenthood.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Both are rooted in subjective desire, though obviously the one is much more important than the other (i.e. the corresponding subjective desire is much more strongly felt).



How so?

How so? Because you have no foundation for an argument against Stalin's subjective desire to send you to death for crimes against the state.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

How so? Because you have no foundation for [or] against Stalin's subjective desire to send you to death for crimes against the state.

I would oppose Stalin's effort, obviously. My view of ethics (as expressions of subjective desire) does not prevent me from doing so.

So, what's the problem exactly?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Resident atheist libertarian checking in here...

I don't view a first trimester fetus as a person, so I don't consider an abortion at that point an act of aggression towards another person.

That being said, I still think Planned Parenthood should be defunded.

No. You are an atheist, but not a libertarian:

http://www.l4l.org/library/bepro-rp.html

 

[Sola_Fide]

I would oppose Stalin's effort. My view of ethics (as expressions of subjective desire) does not prevent me from doing so.

So, what's the problem exactly?

Because your view reduces to might makes right, which is the foundation for tyranny. You haven't even thought through your worldview enough for it to defend freedom.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Because your view reduces to might makes right

You mean that I'm advocating that might makes right?

If so, that's obviously not the case. I'm advocating libertarian ethics.

 

[Sola_Fide]

You mean that I'm advocating that might makes right?

Yes you are. Stalin's subjective desire to send you to death has more power than your subjective desire to not go to your death.

If so, that's obviously not the case. I'm advocating libertarian ethics.

Well, you are getting some or all of that from some kind of natural law formulation, and that just speaks to how deficient natural law is in defending freedom.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Yes you are. Stalin's subjective desire to send you to death has more power than your subjective desire to not go to your death.

Stalin has more might, sure, but where did I say his action was right (or what in my position implies that he's right)?

Well, you are getting some or all of that from some kind of natural law formulation, and that just speaks to how deficient natural law is in defending freedom.

Nothing to do with natural law. Natural law (as the very name implies) is based on the mistaken idea that ethics are objective. I'm suggesting precisely the opposite.

 

[nikcers]

Yes you are. Stalin's subjective desire to send you to death has more power than your subjective desire to not go to your death.



Well, you are getting some or all of that from some kind of natural law formulation, and that just speaks to how deficient natural law is in defending freedom.

Why do internet arguments on RPF always end up in a Hitler/Stalin paradigm? Can't we all just be Rand Paul Republicans?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Stalin has more might, sure, but where did I say his action was right (or what in my view implies that he's right)?



Nothing to do with natural law. Natural law (as the very name implies) is based on the mistaken idea that ethics are objective. I'm suggesting precisely the opposite.

You have no foundation to say Stalin is wrong. You said it yourself. It's his subjective desire, which is just as legitimate as yours.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Why do internet arguments on RPF always end up in a Hitler/Stalin paradigm? Can't we all just be Rand Paul Republicans?

We're having a friendly discussion, no worries.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

You have no foundation to say Stalin is wrong. You said it yourself. It's his subjective desire, which is just as legitimate as yours.

To whom? Not to me, obviously.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Why do internet arguments on RPF always end up in a Hitler/Stalin paradigm? Can't we all just be Rand Paul Republicans?

Please don't view the thread if it makes you uncomfortable.

 

[Sola_Fide]

To whom? Not to me, obviously.

To Stalin, who has just as legitimate a subjective desire as you have (according to you).