Who was the Worst Anti-Liberty American of All Time? (Fun Poll)

Who was the Worst Anti-Liberty American of All Time? (Fun Poll)


  • Total voters
    235
The blacks were not allowed to vote in the secession talks.

lol, good point. Or women...the only ones who voted were the redneck southern farmers who were liqoured up and looking to pick a fight with those damn "nigga lovin yankees"...

Not exactly a legitimite reason for secession...
 
I noticed Ronald Ray-gun didn't get any votes. I guess this is because he did not start any major wars, and talked up small government. However, Reagan started this whole debt mess by raising the debt ceiling 3 times. He also blew up the size of gov't and expanded gov't far more than ol Jimmy Carter.
 
I noticed Ronald Ray-gun didn't get any votes. I guess this is because he did not start any major wars, and talked up small government. However, Reagan started this whole debt mess by raising the debt ceiling 3 times. He also blew up the size of gov't and expanded gov't far more than ol Jimmy Carter.

It's because compared to the other jackasses on here, he's not even close. Not nearly.
 
That's a hard one. (Lincoln or Marshall....hmm..) I picked Marshall. I am surprised no one else did!! *Edit* Lincoln did receive the most votes so maybe it's not as bad as I thought.

P.S.
Marshall's court and big government votes paved the way for Lincoln.

THOMAS JEFFERSON
"But it is not from this branch of government we have most to fear. Taxes and short elections will keep them right. The judiciary of the United States is the subtle corps of sappers and miners constantly working under ground to undermine the foundations of our confederated fabric. They are construing our constitution from a co-ordination of a general and special government to a general and supreme one alone. This will lay all things at their feet, and they are too well versed in English law to forget the maxim, "boni judicis est ampliare juris-dictionem." We shall see if they are bold enough to take the daring stride their five lawyers have lately taken. If they do, then, with the editor of our book, in his address to the public, I will say, that "against this every man should raise his voice," and more, should uplift his arm. Who wrote this admirable address? Sound, luminous, strong, not a word too much, nor one which can be changed but for the worse. That pen should go on, lay bare these wounds of our constitution, expose the decisions seriatim, and arouse, as it is able, the attention of the nation to these bold speculators on its patience. Having found, from experience, that impeachment is an impracticable thing, a mere scare-crow, they consider themselves secure for life; they sculk from responsibility to public opinion, the only remaining hold on them, under a practice first introduced into England by Lord Mansfield. An opinion is huddled up in conclave, perhaps by a majority of one, delivered as if unanimous, and with the silent acquiescence of lazy or timid associates, by a crafty chief judge, who sophisticates the law to his mind, by the turn of his own reasoning. A judiciary law was once reported by the Attorney General to Congress, requiring each judge to deliver his opinion seriatim and openly, and then to give it in writing to the clerk to be entered in the record. A judiciary independent of a king or executive alone, is a good thing; but independence of the will of the nation is a solecism, at least in a republican government."
-Thomas Jefferson

JAMES MADISON
"Critics of the decision also included James Madison, who as president of the United States (1809–1817) had signed the bill creating the Second Bank of the United States into law, and who generally supported most of the Supreme Court's nationalist rulings during the second decade of the nineteenth century. Despite this, he believed “that the occasion did not call for the general and abstract doctrine interwoven with the decision of the particular case.” The real danger of Marshall's decision, Madison believed, was “the high sanction given to a latitude in expounding the Constitution which seems to break down the landmarks intended by a specification of the powers of Congress, and to substitute for a definite connection between means and ends, a legislative discretion as to the former to which no practical limit can be assigned.” Among other things, the decision seemed to sanction a federal program of internal improvements. Such a program would have involved not only the building of roads, canals, and bridges, but also an assortment of educational, scientific, and literary institutions throughout the country. Both Jefferson and Madison favored such a program on policy grounds, but believed the jurisdictional problems raised by it were so complex and controversial that they could only be clarified through an amendment to the Constitution"

-James Madison

""In the great system of Political Economy having for its general object the national welfare,everything is related immediately or remotely to every other thing; and consiquently a Power of any one thing\, if not limited by some obvious andprecise affinity, may amountto a power over every other. Ends and meansmay shift their characgter at the will & according to the ingenuity of the Legislative Body. What is an end in one case may be a means in another; nay in the same case, may be either an end or means at the Legislative option."


Madison had an extremely harsh opinion of the Supreme Court's decision for giving congress latitude as to means "to which no practical limit can be assigned" (thus, he might have added, effectively rejecting the teaching of Madisons's Bonus Bill Veto Message). The court was abandoning its task of policing the limits of congressional authority;"

-James Madison

Dear Sir



I have recd. your favor of the 22d Ult inclosing a copy of your observations

on the Judgment of the Supreme Court of the U. S. in the case of M'Culloch

agst. the State of Maryland; and I have found their latitudinary mode of

expounding the Constitution, combated in them with the ability and the force

which were to be expected.



It appears to me as it does to you that the occasion did not call for the

general and abstract doctrine interwoven with the decision of the particular

case. I have always supposed that the meaning of a law, and for a like

reason, of a Constitution, so far as it depends on Judicial interpretation,

was to result from a course of particular decisions, and not these from a

previous and abstract comment on the subject. The example in this instance

tends to reverse the rule and to forego the illustration to be derived from

a series of cases actually occurring for adjudication.



I could have wished also that the Judges had delivered their opinions

seriatim. The case was of such magnitude, in the scope given to it, as to

call, if any case could do so, for the views of the subject separately taken

by them. This might either by the harmony of their reasoning have produced a

greater conviction in the Public mind; or by its discordance have impaired

the force of the precedent now ostensibly supported by a unanimous & perfect

concurrence in every argument & dictum in the judgment pronounced.



But what is of most importance is the high sanction given to a latitude in

expounding the Constitution which seems to break down the landmarks intended

by a specification of the Powers of Congress, and to substitute for a

definite connection between means and ends, a Legislative discretion as to

the former to which no practical limit can be assigned. In the great system

of Political Economy having for its general object the national welfare,

everything is related immediately or remotely to every other thing; and

consequently a Power over any one thing, if not limited by some obvious and

precise affinity, may amount to a Power over every other. Ends & means may

shift their character at the will & according to the ingenuity of the

Legislative Body. What is an end in one case may be a means in another; nay

in the same case, may be either an end or a means at the Legislative option.

The British Parliament in collecting a revenue from the commerce of America

found no difficulty in calling it either a tax for the regulation of trade,

or a regulation of trade with a view to the tax, as it suited the argument

or the policy of the moment.



Is there a Legislative power in fact, not expressly prohibited by the

Constitution, which might not, according to the doctrine of the Court, be

exercised as a means of carrying into effect some specified Power?



Does not the Court also relinquish by their doctrine, all controul on the

Legislative exercise of unconstitutional powers? According to that doctrine,

the expediency & constitutionality of means for carrying into effect a

specified Power are convertible terms; and Congress are admitted to be

Judges of the expediency. The Court certainly cannot be so; a question, the

moment it assumes the character of mere expediency or policy, being

evidently beyond the reach of Judicial cognizance.



It is true, the Court are disposed to retain a guardianship of the

Constitution against legislative encroachments. "Should Congress," say they,

"under the pretext of executing its Powers, pass laws for the accomplishment

of objects not entrusted to the Government, it would become the painful duty

of this Tribunal to say that such an act was not the law of the land." But

suppose Congress should, as would doubtless happen, pass unconstitutional

laws not to accomplish objects not specified in the Constitution, but the

same laws as means expedient, convenient or conducive to the accomplishment

of objects entrusted to the Government; by what handle could the Court take

hold of the case? We are told that it was the policy of the old Government

of France to grant monopolies, such as that of Tobacco, in order to create

funds in particular hands from which loans could be made to the Public,

adequate capitalists not being formed in that Country in the ordinary course

of commerce. Were Congress to grant a like monopoly merely to aggrandize

those enjoying it, the Court might consistently say, that this not being an

object entrusted to the Governt. the grant was unconstitutional and void.

Should Congress however grant the monopoly according to the French policy as

a means judged by them to be necessary, expedient or conducive to the

borrowing of money, which is an object entrusted to them by the

Constitution, it seems clear that the Court, adhering to its doctrine, could

not interfere without stepping on Legislative ground, to do which they

justly disclaim all pretension.



It could not but happen, and was foreseen at the birth of the Constitution,

that difficulties and differences of opinion might occasionally arise in

expounding terms & phrases necessarily used in such a charter; more

especially those which divide legislation between the General & local

Governments; and that it might require a regular course of practice to

liquidate & settle the meaning of some of them. But it was anticipated I

believe by few if any of the friends of the Constitution, that a rule of

construction would be introduced as broad & as pliant as what has occurred.

And those who recollect, and still more those who shared in what passed in

the State Conventions, thro' which the people ratified the Constitution,

with respect to the extent of the powers vested in Congress, cannot easily

be persuaded that the avowal of such a rule would not have prevented its

ratification. It has been the misfortune, if not the reproach, of other

nations, that their Govts. have not been freely and deliberately established

by themselves. It is the boast of ours that such has been its source and

that it can be altered by the same authority only which established it. It

is a further boast that a regular mode of making proper alterations has been

providently inserted in the Constitution itself. It is anxiously to be

wished therefore, that no innovations may take place in other modes, one of

which would be a constructive assumption of powers never meant to be

granted. If the powers be deficient, the legitimate source of additional

ones is always open, and ought to be resorted to.



Much of the error in expounding the Constitution has its origin in the use

made of the species of sovereignty implied in the nature of Govt. The

specified powers vested in Congress, it is said, are sovereign powers, and

that as such they carry with them an unlimited discretion as to the means of

executing them. It may surely be remarked that a limited Govt. may be

limited in its sovereignty as well with respect to the means as to the

objects of his powers; and that to give an extent to the former, superseding

the limits to the latter, is in effect to convert a limited into an

unlimited Govt. There is certainly a reasonable medium between expounding

the Constitution with the strictness of a penal law, or other ordinary

statute, and expounding it with a laxity which may vary its essential

character, and encroach on the local sovereignties with wch. it was meant to

be reconcilable.



The very existence of these local sovereignties is a controul on the pleas

for a constructive amplification of the powers of the General Govt. Within a

single State possessing the entire sovereignty, the powers given to the

Govt. by the People are understood to extend to all the Acts whether as

means or ends required for the welfare of the Community, and falling within

the range of just Govt. To withhold from such a Govt. any particular power

necessary or useful in itself, would be to deprive the people of the good

dependent on its exercise; since the power must be there or not exist at

all. In the Govt. of the U. S. the case is obviously different. In

establishing that Govt. the people retained other Govts. capable of

exercising such necessary and useful powers as were not to be exercised by

the General Govt. No necessary presumption therefore arises from the

importance of any particular power in itself, that it has been vested in

that Govt. because tho' not vested there, it may exist elsewhere, and the

exercise of it elsewhere might be preferred by those who alone had a right

to make the distribution. The presumption which ought to be indulged is that

any improvement of this distribution sufficiently pointed out by experience

would not be withheld.



Altho' I have confined myself to the single question concerning the rule of

interpreting the Constitution, I find that my pen has carried me to a length

which would not have been permitted by a recollection that my remarks are

merely for an eye to which no aspect of the subject is likely to be new. I

hasten therefore to conclude with assurances.

JAMES MADISON to THOMAS JEFFERSON

We arrive at the agitated question whether the Judicial Authority of the U.

S. be the constitutional resort for determining the line between the federal

& State jurisdictions. Believing as I do that the General Convention

regarded a provision within the Constitution for deciding in a peaceable &

regular mode all cases arising in the course of its operation, as essential

to an adequate System of Govt that it intended the Authority vested in the

Judicial Department as a final resort in relation to the States, for cases

resulting to it in the exercise of its functions, (the concurrence of the

Senate chosen by the State Legislatures, in appointing the Judges, and the

oaths & official tenures of these, with the surveillance of public Opinion,

being relied on as guarantying their impartiality), and that this intention

is expressed by the articles declaring that the federal Constitution & laws

shall be the supreme law of the land, and that the Judicial Power of the U.

S. shall extend to all cases arising under them. Believing moreover that

this was the prevailing view of the subject when the Constitution was

adopted & put into execution, that it has so continued thro' the long period

which has elapsed, and that even at this time an appeal to a national

decision would prove that no general change has taken place, thus believing

I have never yielded my original opinion indicated in the "Federalist" No.

39 to the ingenious reasonings of Col: Taylor agst. this construction of the

Constitution.


I am not unaware that the Judiciary career has not corresponded with what

was anticipated. At one period the Judges perverted the Bench of Justice

into a rostrum for partizan harangues. And latterly the Court, by some of

its decisions, still more by extrajudicial reasonings & dicta, has

manifested a propensity to enlarge the general authority in derogation of

the local, and to amplify its own jurisdiction, which has justly incurred

the public censure. But the abuse of a trust does not disprove its

existence. And if no remedy of the abuse be practicable under the forms of

the Constitution, I should prefer a resort to the Nation for an amendment of

the Tribunal itself, to continual appeals from its controverted decisions to

that Ultimate Arbiter.



In the year 1821, I was engaged in a correspondence with Judge Roane, which

grew out of the proceedings of the Supreme Court of the U. S. Having said so

much here I will send you a copy of my letters to him as soon as I can have

a legible one made, that a fuller view of my ideas with respect to them may

be before you.



I agree entirely with you on the subject of seriatim opinions by the Judges,

which you have placed in so strong a light in your letter to Judge Johnson,

whose example it seems is in favor of the practice. An argument addressed to

others, all of whose dislikes to it are not known, may be a delicate

experiment. My particular connexion with Judge Todd, whom I expect to see,

may tempt me to touch on the subject; and, if encouraged, to present views

of it wch. thro' him may find the way to his intimates.
 
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That's a hard one. (Lincoln or Marshall....hmm..) I picked Marshall. I am surprised no one else did!! *Edit* Lincoln did receive the most votes so maybe it's not as bad as I thought.

P.S.
Marshall's court and big government votes paved the way for Lincoln.

THOMAS JEFFERSON


JAMES MADISON


JAMES MADISON to THOMAS JEFFERSON

If Marshall were around today, he would be a small government conservative.
 
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