Who was right? George Orwell and his '1984' or Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World'?

[John F Kennedy III]

Here is some even more amazing trivia;

On November 22, 1963, Aldous Huxley, John F. Kennedy, and C.S. Lewis died.

That's insane.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

That's insane.

batsh** insane!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Here is some even more amazing trivia;

On November 22, 1963, Aldous Huxley, John F. Kennedy, and C.S. Lewis died.

 

[osan]

I would argue that Orwell's vision has come to pass, except it's more subtle than the way he depicted it. Basically, the propaganda here is more effective and less obvious to the untrained observer than in Oceania. JMO

I did fail to mention that bit, but yes I agree, though would point out that it is only marginally so and the margin appears to be narrowing rapidly. We are so deep in it now that it is hard to see just how close to BNW we really are.

If you have seen the movie Robocop, do you recall the news and TV ads depicted there? For those of us who are a bit older, we came up n a time such that when the movie was first released, one of the things that stood out about it was the utterly comical and extremely ridiculous nature of the media. That is the single thing that I took away with me and that sticks to this day. As I saw the various clips of newsmen delivering their wares I could not help but be immediately seized with the impulse to think "how ridiculous" precisely because it seemed superficially unlikely - certainly impossible for that time, that anything of the sort could become real. I also recall that I put the brakes on the impulse and put my reasoning and experience into gear, such as it may have been at the time, and immediately thought that perhaps it was not quite so far-fetched as my gut response was suggesting.

I recall how things were then and even earler, for example back in the mid-60s when Chet Huntley and David Brinkley were ushered in and out of America's living rooms to the strains of Beethoven's Ninth and everything was conducted with such outward professionalism, grace, and respect not only for the news but for their audience. At the time when Robocop was in theaters, TV news already showed a steep fall from those earlier standards of decorum with newsmen behaving in childish and often embarrassingly graceless, even imbecilic fashion, not as freakish rarities to be followed by abject apologies to the public and loss of position, but on a daily basis as they joked and ho-ho-ho'd their way through the news hours with ever shrinking respect for the public and the truth. By that time I had realized there was no basis for rejecting the vision that Robocop depicted, which has turned out to have been prophetic almost to the letter not only in character of depiction of advertising, but of the general state of the culture, how it operated, and the frightful position of the individual therein.

My point here is that things have changed to a degree that few, if any of us can fully appreciate. I am particularly tuned in to this sort of thing and consider myself to be far more sensitive and aware of this shift, yet even I cannot really quite recall the way things were at the gut level. What I mean is that time has greatly mitigated the internalized and living sense of the past. I strongly suspect that were I somehow taken back in time as if the past 40 years had never happened, psychologically and emotionally speaking, that the sudden immersion in today's reality would make me physically ill from the mental stress and shock. That is how I feel we have devolved in terms of behavioral norms. The same might be the case were we to be suddenly thrust 40 years into a future where a leisurely stroll would expose one to adults raping and mutilating infants and then perhaps roasting them over a charcoal fire. It would make any decent person ill, but in those times "decent" will have been redefined from what it is today, just as today's sense is so radically altered from that of 1970.

Because of this inability to hold fast to an emotional standard and avoid being inured to an environment in which one marinades, I think it is difficult for most to see and appreciate just how vacuously inane hug populations really are. I watch people very carefully and the fall has been duly noted in my thoughts and the precipice where we once stood is way the hell up there in the clouds, now obscured to our senses. In BNW one of the qualities that stood out was the utterly childish nature of physical adults - wholly dependent on "government" for even the simplest of things, utterly self-absorbed and preoccupied with tough decisions such as choosing which sex partner was most "pneumatic", not to mention the strict cadences of their daily dosing with contraceptives and "soma". BNW failed ever so slightly in its depiction, but if you blur the lines of scheduling a bit what do we get that is significantly different from what we have right now? Nothing worth the mention.

We are there. Right here. Right now. The only thing left is to reign in that small minority that refuse to get on the train with everyone else. Just as the gentle but steady pull of the starfish defeats the enormous power of the clam in time, so the steady pressure of the greater culture defeats the greater immediate power of human decency. It is easier to go with the current than it is to fight it, especially when carrot and stick are employed in such effective fashion. I do, however, stand by my suspicion that we are witnessing a breakdown in patience and discipline in the ranks of the oligopoly as indicated by the ever increasing use of the club to achieve compliance. But that could all be part of a greater plan as well. The avenue of potential strategies and tactics along these lines of conquest are pretty broad, and for all we know those at the top are perhaps having a little fun as they use the world as their 7th grade science project.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

One need not read fiction to see where we are headed. History bears the fruit of where we are headed. Whether it be the Romans, the French, the Bolsheviks, the Third Reich or any other tyranny to have existed. They always use the same techniques. The only determining factor whether it succeeds or not is the determination and education of those individuals to resist. Let the US burn. I'll take my oasis free from the tyrant. Hence, the importance of the FSP and other movements like it. Nothing is set in stone -- let's shape it for ourselves.

 

[Barrex]

My 4 favorite books:
Animal farm (ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS).. This one I read when I was really young and it started to open my eyes about society and how people can be good and bad and everything in between.
Brave New World ("Expecting Deltas to know what liberty is! And now expecting them to understand Othello! My good boy!")
1984 ("Big brother is watching you")and ("But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.")...after reading second quote I was full of negative emotions...sad, mad, angry, depressed etc.

I was always curious how will the future look like. In elementary school I read "Animal farm" and in gymnasium "BNW" and "1984". All 3 I read in different time of my life and all 3 had different impact on me. Animal farm is when I started journey Some mention Fahrenheit 451, Anthem etc. all good books but for me not good as my favorite 3.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1842779470635110724

 

[acptulsa]

The answer is they were both right. Yes, that's strange, but truth tends to be stranger than fiction.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Who was right? George Orwell and his '1984' or Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World'?

ETA:

The answer is they were both right. Yes, that's strange, but truth tends to be stranger than fiction.

Beat me to it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.

 

[acptulsa]

Mankind is not a recent creation. The trick is not getting a slave to think he isn't a slave. The trick is getting the slaver to believe that he isn't a slaver.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Possibly the best quote ever on RPF.

I second the motion.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Mankind is not a recent creation. The trick is not getting a slave to think he isn't a slave. The trick is getting the slaver to believe that he isn't a slaver.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Possibly the best quote ever on RPF.

I second the motion.

AI says this:

Blindness to Slavery

The quote highlights the subtle yet significant distinction between the slave and the slaver. It’s not about convincing the enslaved individual of their false freedom, but rather about deceiving the oppressor into believing they are not engaging in oppressive behavior.

This notion underscores the importance of power dynamics and the ways in which those in positions of authority may rationalize or deny their exploitation of others. The slaver, in this context, is not necessarily aware of the harm they inflict or the lack of autonomy they impose on others.

The Perpetuation of Slavery

By convincing the slaver that they are not enslaving others, the system of oppression can continue unchecked. This dynamic perpetuates the cycle of slavery, as the oppressor remains unaware of their role in maintaining the status quo.

Implications

This quote has far-reaching implications for understanding power structures and the ways in which they are maintained. It highlights the need for critical self-reflection and awareness among those in positions of authority, encouraging them to recognize and challenge their own biases and behaviors.

Ultimately, the quote suggests that true freedom and equality can only be achieved when those in power acknowledge and dismantle the systems of oppression they perpetuate, rather than simply convincing themselves or others that they are not involved in such practices.

 

[otherone]

What is the cause of this necromancy?