Who plans on joining the Free State Project in New Hampshire this year?

[bolil]

Calvary is a hill near Jerusalem. Cavalry is the mounted arm of warfare, who are masters of maneuver based combat.

Phew, what would I do without a grammar pig? Cheers mate, I lost sleep over that typo.

 

[Schiff_FTW]

FSP should look at banding together on the county level and having like minded counties forming a separate state instead of trying to take over the entire state. FSP will always be held back and denied their right to self determination by the heavily populated Socialist counties.

Counties don't have very many functions in NH outside of court proceedings. They are making tangible progress at the state level, so your statement isn't really supported by the facts on the ground.

 

[TheTexan]

Counties don't have very many functions in NH outside of court proceedings. They are making tangible progress at the state level, so your statement isn't really supported by the facts on the ground.

I think you missed his point. He meant to make a new state, not to take over the county court proceedings.

If it's possible to take over the entire state of NH - fantastic! Otherwise, there's no reason not to focus on a smaller geographic area, and simply nullify the state's influences in that geographic area.

 

[Crotale]

Property taxes ensure forced labor in the governments economic system. Without property taxes you could live freely on your property, live off your land and trade with others. Therefore you could avoid any forced participation by our government slave masters.

Hopefully FSP will eventually do something about it. Where ever I am at I plan to dedicate the rest of my life fighting our authoritarian governments restrictions on owning property by forced private property taxation. I will fight our Communist political parties, our money grubbing teachers unions that want to make us all subservient to them as well as my local, state and county governments, because living freely on private property is basic right of freedom.

fighting = politically and peacefully.

I don't disagree mate. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I understand that taxation is forced labour and theft, no matter how it is expropriated. All I was saying is that I would rather have a property tax than income tax. The ultimate goal is for no tax, definately. Perhaps everyone moving to New Hampshire would be a good method of achieving that goal?

 

[Crotale]

Right and I understand that. It is a nice goal for those who are trying to achieve it, however there is little if any incentive for someone like myself other than a plan and a dream that may or may not come about. Sure I will save money with no state income tax and no sales tax, but I would have to find a way to replace a sizable income. I am self-employed and have been all my life, walking away from a business like I have would be foolish for the relatively small savings of taxes. And that doesn't take into account the aspect of family, friends, etc.

So what is the incentive for someone like myself that owns a home, has a large family and friend network, a business that provides a sizable income, and ties to the community?

The answer for you my friend is to stay where you are. Obviously you are happy where you are, you have friends and family, a successful business and a nice home. If you don't think that you could maintain such a standard of living in NH, then the FSP isn't suited to you.

However, you definately need to make sure you attend PorcFest and the Liberty Forum!

 

[mikeforliberty]

I'm moving there in 2016

 

[tbone717]

Maybe so your family doesn't get murdered by cops? Just a thought.

Well I find that offensive since I have many family members and friends who are/were cops. None of them went around murdering people. It is this type of talk that makes libertarians look lie a bunch of nutcases.

 

[tbone717]

The answer for you my friend is to stay where you are. Obviously you are happy where you are, you have friends and family, a successful business and a nice home. If you don't think that you could maintain such a standard of living in NH, then the FSP isn't suited to you.

However, you definately need to make sure you attend PorcFest and the Liberty Forum!

Oh i know I have no intention of moving. I am just trying to see the selling point. Like Schiff_FTW stated he is looking to start a business, that is a good target. I just have a hard time seeing the selling point to draw people that are already established in a career and/or have family ties. That is the majority of people, which could be the reason so few have actually moved there in the 10 years this has been around.

 

[Schiff_FTW]

Oh i know I have no intention of moving. I am just trying to see the selling point.

The selling point is obvious. If you are a libertarian activist and you want to be somewhere that you can help work toward real, tangible results, then there is no better place to be than NH. Even as it is, according to numerous studies NH is already one of the most free and prosperous states in the country.

 

[tbone717]

The selling point is obvious. If you are a libertarian activist and you want to be somewhere that you can help work toward real, tangible results, then there is no better place to be than NH. Even as it is, according to numerous studies NH is already one of the most free and prosperous states in the country.

Not trying to argue with you, but it isn't that obvious. Activism is great, I have been doing it for 25 years, but aside from activism people have lives, career and family. Like I said earlier, other than the people that have virtually no ties to their current area through their career and family, I cannot see this being attractive to people. It reminds me of the hippie colonies of the 60's. They had a nice idea, but the only people that could realistically be a part of it, were people who had absolutely nothing to lose and nothing to leave behind.

It is a nice concept, but I can see why in 10 years so few people have moved there for this. The ability to move relies primarily on finding people that have nothing to leave behind.

 

[specsaregood]

It is a nice concept, but I can see why in 10 years so few people have moved there for this. The ability to move relies primarily on finding people that have nothing to leave behind.

having nothing to leave behind is a glass-half empty POV. some people enjoy new experiences. i've lived in 2handsfull of states and countries, not because i had nothing to leave behind but because i had more things to find. but, yes; obviously it tends to be easier when you are young.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

I am making the entire planet my "free state" project...I am an inhabitant of earth loyal to none sworn to fun

 

[Keith and stuff]

Not trying to argue with you, but it isn't that obvious. Activism is great, I have been doing it for 25 years, but aside from activism people have lives, career and family. Like I said earlier, other than the people that have virtually no ties to their current area through their career and family, I cannot see this being attractive to people.

Some people don't like the current climate where they live. Many people think it is too hot in the South or that there are too many bugs in FL. Some people move because they have a good job offer somewhere else. Some people move to get away from crime. Some people move for a change. Some people move to live in a rural area. These are all common reasons why people move. Some people move to be closer to the mountains, the ocean or both. I'm not talking about just young people, but people in their 30s, 40s and even retired people. This type of stuff happens everyday and is usually not because people have no strong connections where they are. After all, it is easy to visit people with cars, trains and planes. Most of the people I know take vacations, have phones, have the internet (skype, facebook, forums, email, twitter...) and know how to mail a letter. Honestly, I cannot even see where you are coming from with your points.

I think most liberty activists are OK with living in dangerous areas without much freedom, knowing that they are losing freedom every year. They are OK with knowing that the government continues to make it harder for them to do business and every day they are more likely to be charged for something that isn't wrong at all. All liberty activists aren't, though. Some liberty activists want to live in a world where freedom is on the increase. They want to help be a part of that fundamental change. They are passionate about making the world a better place.

Of course, New Hampshire doesn't just offer the ability to be part of the positive change to liberty activists. It also offers the freest current state, the easiest possibility of getting elected, mountains, large lakes, rivers, the ocean, the lowest crime in the US, the lowest poverty in the US, the richest state in the US, near the healthiest state in the US, near the smartest state in the US, low pollution, a rural lifestyle, a change of pace, adventure and so on.

It is a nice concept, but I can see why in 10 years so few people have moved there for this.

There wasn't a vote on which state until a few years into the project. The original plan was not even to ask people to move until we get 20,000 signers. That's still the plan most people sign up under. People that have already made the move are considered early movers.

 

[rhelwig]

It is a nice concept, but I can see why in 10 years so few people have moved there for this.

I just want to point out that those of us that have moved, including many families, have done so before we are even supposed to have. The original idea was that people only start moving when the 20,000 number was reached.

 

[tbone717]

having nothing to leave behind is a half-glass full POV. some people enjoy new experiences. i've lived in 2handsfull of states and countries, not because i had nothing to leave behind but because i had more things to find. but, yes; obviously it tends to be easier when you are young.

Agreed, you need to be younger and without many roots. Family, friends and career is what keeps most people tied to their area. For example a friend of mine are moving from PA to NC to take a better position with his company. But he turned that position down for several years because of family. His wife's father passed away this year, and now they do not have anything holding them to this area, so it is a lot easier for them to move. But he is doing so for a major career advancement, not for the thrill of adventure.

Since I started looking at this concept again, I have been thinking of all my close friends and seeing if any of them would be able to pack up and move to NH for something like this, and honestly I could not think of any of them that would have the ability to do so. They would be essentially starting over again, and for most people that have attained a certain measure of success in life, the risk far outweighs the reward.

My neighbor next door to me, for example. He has been with the same company for 15 years. Has a nice amount of time off per year for vacation, lives 10 mins from work and can come home everyday for lunch to see his youngest kids, they are active in the church (where they have been members for their whole lives), they are active in sports, all their family lives nearby and visits frequently. Someone like that would never relocate.

I think this is in large part why over 10 years they have only had a small amount of people sign the pledge and an even smaller amount move.

The good thing is though, we can be activists right where we live and work. Our state Senate district has one of the most sound libertarians in all of PA as our senator. We have great representation here in our local and county government, and that influence is growing. Property taxes are low here in my county (actually lower than most parts of NH) So for those that can't pack up everything and move to NH, there is more than enough you can do in your own backyard.

 

[tbone717]

There wasn't a vote on which state until a few years into the project. The original plan was not even to ask people to move until we get 20,000 signers. That's still the plan most people sign up under. People that have already made the move are considered early movers.

The group was founded in 01 and voted in 03. I remember this because I followed the discussions. If I recall, there were 3 groups NH, WY and SC. The other two groups started their own Free State type projects as well.

http://www.freestatewyoming.org/
http://christianexodus.org/

 

[Keith and stuff]

The group was founded in 01 and voted in 03.

Thanks, my bad.

http://christianexodus.org/

I don't mind that some people formed a group with somewhat similar goals in Wyoming. However, I just want to make sure everyone is clear (and I am not saying you said anything one way or another on this) that the FSP is not connected to christian exodus in anyway. It is true that the person that founded christian exodus claims that he heard about the FSP and used that as an example. Christian exodus isn't a liberty group/project/organization and I don't want to have any connection or association with it. It appears to be a very small group (even smaller than FSW), but I still don't want to be associated with it and what it does in anyway

 

[tbone717]

The group was founded in 01 and voted in 03. I remember this because I followed the discussions. If I recall, there were 3 groups NH, WY and SC. The other two groups started their own Free State type projects as well.

http://www.freestatewyoming.org/
http://christianexodus.org/

Again, while I do think this is a noble pursuit I can see many reasons why people are reluctant or unwilling to sign up for it. When you have very strong bonds with family and friends in an area, along with a stable and successful career - those ties are very difficult to break. It is not an indications of one's passion for the liberty movement if they are willing to join up with FSP, as one can be just as active where they are right now.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I am just trying to see the selling point.

The selling point is to make what you go around here preaching all day long, actually work.

To get involved politically, and have it actually make a difference, instead of your efforts getting washed away in a sea of apathetic "democracy".

 

[FrankRep]

I am making the entire planet my "free state" project...I am an inhabitant of earth loyal to none sworn to fun

You will need to control the politics of your state to have a "free state." Good luck controlling the politics of the planet.