Where to live free?

[Danke]

 

[Brick-in-the-Wall]

I've thought about Switzerland too but the thing is, it's insanely hard to get into. Also, the past couple of years the United States has been pressuring Swiss banks to disclose information of clients, and they've been caving.

I've slowly come the realization that no country is truly safe. The long arms of corruption, tyranny, and enslavement reach all over the globe.

The only thing to do is go underground if you truly want to escape it all. The thing is you'll have to throw out luxuries you probably enjoy and be shut off from society, including those you actually like talking to. You will always be running, looking over your shoulder, and hiding the rest of your days.

If you don't like that, you must see it as a computer and when a computer system is infected far too much, the anti-virus doesn't work, and it's impossible to clean out the files needed to fix the computer, then the whole thing must be deleted and reloaded. Yes, I'm talking about open, armed, revolution.

That's all of the options left. There's not a single place you can go and keep living the life you left behind and think it's perfectly alright.

You either hide, truly hide, stay to fix the system, or burn the system down when it's too far gone to be fixed.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

Pay Pal founder and early Facebook investor Peter Thiel has given $1.25 million to an initiative to create floating libertarian countries in international waters, according to a profile of the billionaire in Details magazine.
Thiel has been a big backer of the Seasteading Institute, which seeks to build sovereign nations on oil rig-like platforms to occupy waters beyond the reach of law-of-the-sea treaties. The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place. Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons."
"There are quite a lot of people who think it's not possible," Thiel said at a Seasteading Institute Conference in 2009, according to Details. (His first donation was in 2008, for $500,000.) "That's a good thing. We don't need to really worry about those people very much, because since they don't think it's possible they won't take us very seriously. And they will not actually try to stop us until it's too late."
The Seasteading Institute's Patri Friedman says the group plans to launch an office park off the San Francisco coast next year, with the first full-time settlements following seven years later.
Thiel made news earlier this year for putting a portion of his $1.5 billion fortune into an initiative to encourage entrepreneurs to skip college.
Another tech titan, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, announced in June that he would be funding the "Clock of the Long Now." The clock is designed to keep ticking for 10,000 years, and will be built in a mountain in west Texas.

 

[TomtheTinker]

Didnt you get the memo when you became a RP supporter...we live free in our mothers basements.

 

[enoch150]

New Hampshire is to cold.

Maybe we could pool some money together and buy some land in Texas as a place for liberty minded folk to live and survive in the case of an economic collapse. We could probably talk Michael Badnarik into running for Sheriff. We could call it "Freedom County".

 

[The_Ruffneck]

Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...artificial-libertarian-islands-140840896.html

Pay Pal founder and early Facebook investor Peter Thiel has given $1.25 million to an initiative to create floating libertarian countries in international waters, according to a profile of the billionaire in Details magazine.
Thiel has been a big backer of the Seasteading Institute, which seeks to build sovereign nations on oil rig-like platforms to occupy waters beyond the reach of law-of-the-sea treaties. The idea is for these countries to start from scratch--free from the laws, regulations, and moral codes of any existing place. Details says the experiment would be "a kind of floating petri dish for implementing policies that libertarians, stymied by indifference at the voting booths, have been unable to advance: no welfare, looser building codes, no minimum wage, and few restrictions on weapons."
"There are quite a lot of people who think it's not possible," Thiel said at a Seasteading Institute Conference in 2009, according to Details. (His first donation was in 2008, for $500,000.) "That's a good thing. We don't need to really worry about those people very much, because since they don't think it's possible they won't take us very seriously. And they will not actually try to stop us until it's too late."
The Seasteading Institute's Patri Friedman says the group plans to launch an office park off the San Francisco coast next year, with the first full-time settlements following seven years later.
Thiel made news earlier this year for putting a portion of his $1.5 billion fortune into an initiative to encourage entrepreneurs to skip college.
Another tech titan, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, announced in June that he would be funding the "Clock of the Long Now." The clock is designed to keep ticking for 10,000 years, and will be built in a mountain in west Texas.

sounds stupid , those Dubai artificial islands were a total flop and a good portion of the islands have now washed back into the ocean

 

[craezie]

sounds stupid , those Dubai artificial islands were a total flop and a good portion of the islands have now washed back into the ocean

I have to wonder why they don't think about buying an ACTUAL island, or even sovereign nation. I'm sure they have the money to do it. I'd be the first to sign up if it was an actual stable island. However, that island/boat thing wigs me out, way too claustrophobic, and I'd hate to see a tsunami run by. Not to mention that they obviously cannot produce any food, water or fuel on a fake island, and thus are dependent on trade or constant infusions of cash from somewhere else.

 

[Czolgosz]

Why don't we just find a proper place inside America's borders to enforce our God given rights, en masse?

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

Why don't we just find a proper place inside America's borders to enforce our God given rights, en masse?

That's been the idea behind the Free State Project. I'd love to see something like that happen. The main barrier to its realization seems to be economic: namely, how to ensure that everyone who moves to a specific state (or part of a state) can get a good job, or even any job? A lot of freedom-lovers have families to support.

Even so, I'd at least like to see some sort of agreement about where freedom-lovers should congregate if the SHTF and the US collapses for one reason or another (most likely economic) like the USSR did. Once people have little left to lose, it will be important for us to stake out some territory somewhere -- preferably in a very defensible area, with lots of mountains and forests to make airborne surveillance and movement of invading military vehicles difficult.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

Why don't we just find a proper place inside America's borders to enforce our God given rights, en masse?

I would like to see this.

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

 

[enoch150]

That's been the idea behind the Free State Project. I'd love to see something like that happen. The main barrier to its realization seems to be economic: namely, how to ensure that everyone who moves to a specific state (or part of a state) can get a good job, or even any job? A lot of freedom-lovers have families to support.

Even so, I'd at least like to see some sort of agreement about where freedom-lovers should congregate if the SHTF and the US collapses for one reason or another (most likely economic) like the USSR did. Once people have little left to lose, it will be important for us to stake out some territory somewhere -- preferably in a very defensible area, with lots of mountains and forests to make airborne surveillance and movement of invading military vehicles difficult.

About eight years ago my parents made the decision to move to an area where they could move off the grid, if it should become necessary. And they have taken steps towards doing that. The area they chose was the Eastern Shore of Virginia - that's the south end of the peninsula enclosing the Chesapeake Bay, south of Maryland and north of Virginia Beach, after crossing a 17 mile long bridge. The Virginia portion is 661.11 square miles and has only 45,553 people - 68.9 people per square mile. (New Hampshire has a population density of 147 per square mile). It's mostly rural poor, but there is a big complex near the Maryland border for NASA and some aerospace companies that pay well, and many people on the southern end travel to Virginia Beach for work.

My parents had a bunch of reasons for that location:

*They bought two houses and three times as much land (35 acres) as they owned in CT, but property taxes are more than 90% lower. And the locals are very eager to keep it that way.

*A huge variety of food is harvested all year round, in ridiculous quantities. Fish and crabs on either side, in the Chesapeake Bay and Atlantic Ocean; deer are so numerous that farmers beg hunters to kill more because they can damage crops; the growing season is as long as 46 weeks, depending on what you're growing. Locals usually grow corn, wheat, tomatoes, soy, and cotton, but I've been told the area is the farthest south apples can be grown and the farthest north able to grow bananas. I've also seen things like blueberries, grapes, and pomegranates. Lots of chickens are raised there. Tyson and Purdue both have plants nearby.

*It's in a wind zone, for windmills, is a good area for solar, and has a large amount of forests which can be used for firewood, if necessary.

*Any hurricane that hits the area has to go through North Carolina first, which weakens the storm considerably. They get snow maybe once a year, and it's melted in a day. They sometimes have droughts in the summer, but there is so much water in the ground that it doesn't affect much. The flip side of that is, there's so much water in the ground that no one can have a basement.

*There is a considerable black market already operating.

*Local police stay inside the towns, which are only a mile or so long and there aren't all that many of them. State police technically have authority over the vast majority of the area, but they are rarely seen. Outside of the little towns, you might not see a cop for years. Outside of the towns, so called "crimes" that don't affect other people go largely unenforced, including regulations on construction, firearms, drugs (though there doesn't seem to be much of a market outside of the schools), traffic laws (sometimes state cops are on the major road between the towns, but never on the back roads), and illegal immigration.


On the downside:

*The bugs are much bigger and more numerous than what I'm used to in Connecticut.

*There's not much in the way of entertainment, or options for singles.

*There are no hills, let alone mountains. It's completely flat.

*There's only one road in from the north and one road in from the south. East and west are boat or swim. You can hide forever - but you can't run.

 

[Elwar]

sounds stupid , those Dubai artificial islands were a total flop and a good portion of the islands have now washed back into the ocean

The Seasteading Institute is focused on providing information to the community on engineering research and other research such as legal, etc. The running assumption among seasteaders is that the seastead will have to endure 100 foot waves periodically. Architects are taking this into account.

I have to wonder why they don't think about buying an ACTUAL island, or even sovereign nation. I'm sure they have the money to do it. I'd be the first to sign up if it was an actual stable island.

All ACTUAL islands are within the territory of some nation. Most nations have plenty of laws. Even shallow sea areas have been claimed by nations. Buying anything within a nation is just about as useful for building your own libertarian society as moving to New Hampshire is. Nevertheless, there is one seasteader (I am not sure how serious he is) is in the process of buying an island and plans on using it as a launching platform for seasteads and seastead development.

However, that island/boat thing wigs me out, way too claustrophobic, and I'd hate to see a tsunami run by.

There are so many different designs for seasteads that take into account such things. One seastead (in the prototype stage) actually submerges itself during bad weather.

Not to mention that they obviously cannot produce any food, water or fuel on a fake island, and thus are dependent on trade or constant infusions of cash from somewhere else.

They can produce food, water and fuel. Food (fish, hydroponics, etc), water (distilled salt water is abundant), fuel (natural gas mining, electricity from wave energy, water current energy, solar, wind). Granted...most early seasteads will require a lot of trade up front and will probably get their income working for companies online.

 

[mtr1979]

Don't know how much this will help, but a few mouths ago I was listening to Coast to Coast Am and a guy named Blake Sawyer was talking about which counties will survive the collapse. During his interview he never comes out and says it, but he is talking about Argentina as the place to go. Be weary this guy is a very persuasive speaker just keep in mind a few things: appeal to fear, appeal to emotion, slippery slope, and various other fallacies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qIheFFxt4s

 

[FreedomHorn]

What about Canada?

 

[damiengwa]

Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

I'm tired of putting up with this. I'm not going to live in 1984-land. Thoughts...suggestions?

Have you looked at the Free State Project? Check it out at http://www.freestateproject.org . read about the activism on the Free Keene blog at http://www.freekeene.com

 

[The Free Hornet]

Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Cuba or marriage? Which is worse?

 

[Keith and stuff]

That's been the idea behind the Free State Project. I'd love to see something like that happen. The main barrier to its realization seems to be economic: namely, how to ensure that everyone who moves to a specific state (or part of a state) can get a good job, or even any job? A lot of freedom-lovers have families to support.

That isn't an issue in New Hampshire. NH has the lowest unemployment rate east of the MS River. VT, across the river from NH, has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate east of the MS River. Unemployment is trending better in NH, unlike the nation as a whole. Several communities in southeastern NH are also part of the Boston MSA which has around 5 million people and a steady and pretty solid economy. 3 Interstate like roads go from NH to Boston and beyond, as do buses and trains.

New stores and businesses frequently pop up in NH and MA businesses routinely move to NH, often in expanded forms.

Here are some recent stories about that happening.
New, Inexpensive Grocery Stores Are Opening All Over NH
Merrimack outlets opening set for June 14, will eventually bring 800 jobs to NH
MA company relocating to NH by next year will have 540 state income tax free jobs, many of them new

FSP activists have also created excellent resources on the FSP website, the FSP forum and facebook to help make sure no one that moves to southeastern NH will have trouble finding a job as long as they take job searching seriously. We are constantly helping each other and offering jobs and inexpensive housing to each other.

 

[Pericles]

Why don't we just find a proper place inside America's borders to enforce our God given rights, en masse?

I'm working on it - the Free State Project, was a bit too ambitious in my view. Start at the community level and work on expansion of the concept as it succeeds.

 

[Keith and stuff]

I'm working on it - the Free State Project, was a bit too ambitious in my view. Start at the community level and work on expansion of the concept as it succeeds.

Look up Grafton, NH

 

[Revolution_Ready]

About eight years ago my parents made the decision to move to an area where they could move off the grid, if it should become necessary. And they have taken steps towards doing that. The area they chose was the Eastern Shore of Virginia - that's the south end of the peninsula enclosing the Chesapeake Bay, south of Maryland and north of Virginia Beach, after crossing a 17 mile long bridge. The Virginia portion is 50 miles long, maybe 8 miles wide at its widest, and probably has fewer than 50,000 people (it has a lower population density than New Hampshire). It's mostly rural poor, but there is a big complex near the Maryland border for NASA and some aerospace companies that pay well, and many people on the southern end travel to Virginia Beach for work.

My parents had a bunch of reasons for that location:

*They bought two houses and three times as much land (35 acres) as they owned in CT, but property taxes are more than 90% lower. And the locals are very eager to keep it that way.

*A huge variety of food is harvested all year round, in ridiculous quantities. Fish and crabs on either side, in the Chesapeake Bay and Atlantic Ocean; deer are so numerous that farmers beg hunters to kill more because they can damage crops; the growing season is as long as 46 weeks, depending on what you're growing. Locals usually grow corn, wheat, tomatoes, soy, and cotton, but I've been told the area is the farthest south apples can be grown and the farthest north able to grow bananas. I've also seen things like blueberries, grapes, and pomegranates. Lots of chickens are raised there. Tyson and Purdue both have plants nearby.

*It's in a wind zone, for windmills, is a good area for solar, and has a large amount of forests which can be used for firewood, if necessary.

*Any hurricane that hits the area has to go through North Carolina first, which weakens the storm considerably. They get snow maybe once a year, and it's melted in a day. They sometimes have droughts in the summer, but there is so much water in the ground that it doesn't affect much. The flip side of that is, there's so much water in the ground that no one can have a basement.

*There is a considerable black market already operating.

*Local police stay inside the towns, which are only a mile or so long and there aren't all that many of them. State police technically have authority over the vast majority of the area, but they are rarely seen. Outside of the little towns, you might not see a cop for years. Outside of the towns, so called "crimes" that don't affect other people go largely unenforced, including regulations on construction, firearms, drugs (though there doesn't seem to be much of a market outside of the schools), traffic laws (sometimes state cops are on the major road between the towns, but never on the back roads), and illegal immigration.


On the downside:

*The bugs are much bigger and more numerous than what I'm used to in Connecticut.

*There's not much in the way of entertainment, or options for singles.

*There are no hills, let alone mountains. It's completely flat.

*There's only one road in from the north and one road in from the south. East and west are boat or swim. You can hide forever - but you can't run.

Very interesting post. I have driving through that area a few times in the past, but never considered bugging out there. Thanks for your informative post.