Where to live free?

tfurrh

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,265
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

- Martin Niemöller

I'm serious as a heart attack. If Ron Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination, it looks like we are facing perpetual war, indefinite detention, a tanking currency, and complete disregard for the Constitution. Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

I'm tired of putting up with this. I'm not going to live in 1984-land. Thoughts...suggestions?
 
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

- Martin Niemöller

I'm serious as a heart attack. If Ron Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination, it looks like we are facing perpetual war, indefinite detention, a tanking currency, and complete disregard for the Constitution. Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

I'm tired of putting up with this. I'm not going to live in 1984-land. Thoughts...suggestions?

Unless your RICH, your probably not going anywhere.

Any decent country have very strict and extensive immigration laws, and require you to have a sponser,
to guarentee your conduct, and assume finical responsibilty, in case you cut and run, leaving incuted debt.
Welcome Home ...
 
There's really nowhere left to run. Even in countries where people are mostly left alone -- a rarity nowadays -- the governments there still can assault the rights of their citizens. That's not true freedom; it's an illusion of freedom. Besides, when freedom-lovers leave the US, it makes it harder for the rest of us to carry on.

I can only recommend that each of us do everything in our power to be as well-armed and ready as possible if we finally get pushed too far by the police state. Most important of all is to cultivate a mindset of absolute defiance and hatred of our would-be taskmasters. We need to hate them more than we love our own lives -- so much that, if need be, we're willing to die just to take a few of the arrogant, cowardly, smirking, jackbooted thugs with us.

Death is an absolute certainty for every one of us. It seems like common sense, but it's so easy to forget. So when I die, I lose absolutely nothing that I wouldn't have lost anyway. This is especially good to remember as we get old. I can either "waste" my death in a nursing home or hospital, or I can use my inevitable death to strike a blow for what I dearly believe in: a love of freedom and a ferocious hatred of subjugation and injustice. Anyone can be king for a day just by saying "fuck everything," damning the consequences, and giving some bastards exactly what they deserve. It may only last a short time before one gets shot, but boy, would it be satisfying before it ended. And no need to worry about surveillance video, DNA forensics, or any of that crap if you don't expect to survive anyway. (The same factor that makes all these high-tech police state surveillance measures useless for preventing terrorism by suicide attackers in the US also make them useless against "Kamikaze" freedom fighters.)

I have no current plans to do anything like this (mainly out of deep concern for my elderly parents), and hopefully it won't even be necessary when I'm an old man with little life left to lose. But if things get so bad that it comes down to dying on my feet or living on my knees, I know exactly what I'm doing, even if I'm the only one in the country who does it.
 
Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

I'm tired of putting up with this. I'm not going to live in 1984-land. Thoughts...suggestions?

You join the Free State Project and move to New Hampshire.

101 Reasons to move to New Hampshire
http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons

Page after page of additional reasons to move to New Hampshire
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ew-Hampshire&p=3050148&viewfull=1#post3050148

That is, if you do not already live in the freest state with the best chance of increasing freedom, New Hampshire. If you already live in NH, move to a freer part of NH such as Grafton.
 
Here's what we (husband and I) did:

Looked at the index of economic freedom that Heritage.org puts out. That index has various categories and we took each one and weighed based on how important it is *to us.* We don't plan on starting a business, so the ease to do that isn't important to us - but it may be for you. You can review the various categories to get you started in the process because it allows you to get a general idea of what the state of other countries is compared to here.

Then we looked at what we personally believe to be most important. In our case, that list includes the healthcare system in the other country (we're older :)). The other thing that is big for us is cost of living (because we are not rich).

We came up with a list of countries, then looked at various information including the CIA world factbook (google for it) to get more info. Then we looked for blogs of expatriates from those countries.

Now, we have a list of countries that suits our needs, and we're following different blogs of expatriates who are currently living there. We are looking at rental homes in various areas in each country on our list, and plan to visit them (staying 3 - 6 months at a time) until we find which one best suits us.

If you are serious about getting out of the US, there are places where you can go that aren't outside the reach of the average american. You just have to have a methodical approach to it, and start looking.

Good luck!

MsD
 
I'm not going anywhere. This is my home.

If America goes down, I'm going down with her. I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.
 
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Here's what we (husband and I) did:

Looked at the index of economic freedom that Heritage.org puts out. That index has various categories and we took each one and weighed based on how important it is *to us.* We don't plan on starting a business, so the ease to do that isn't important to us - but it may be for you. You can review the various categories to get you started in the process because it allows you to get a general idea of what the state of other countries is compared to here.

Then we looked at what we personally believe to be most important. In our case, that list includes the healthcare system in the other country (we're older :)). The other thing that is big for us is cost of living (because we are not rich).

We came up with a list of countries, then looked at various information including the CIA world factbook (google for it) to get more info. Then we looked for blogs of expatriates from those countries.

Now, we have a list of countries that suits our needs, and we're following different blogs of expatriates who are currently living there. We are looking at rental homes in various areas in each country on our list, and plan to visit them (staying 3 - 6 months at a time) until we find which one best suits us.

If you are serious about getting out of the US, there are places where you can go that aren't outside the reach of the average american. You just have to have a methodical approach to it, and start looking.

Good luck!

MsD

Logical, well thought out ... what appears to be sound advice. +rep.
 
I'm waiting to see all the elite globalists in their mother's basement ... assets frozen and warrants out for their arrest
 
Actually the best place to ride out the storm is Cuba, close to home. Get the jeep raft ready to be the first going the other way. Be prepared to marry though to stay.
 
Actually the best place to ride out the storm is Cuba, close to home. Get the jeep raft ready to be the first going the other way. Be prepared to marry though to stay.

Better have a garden or small farm, too. The food sucks in Cuba.
 
Here's what we (husband and I) did:

Looked at the index of economic freedom that Heritage.org puts out. That index has various categories and we took each one and weighed based on how important it is *to us.* We don't plan on starting a business, so the ease to do that isn't important to us - but it may be for you. You can review the various categories to get you started in the process because it allows you to get a general idea of what the state of other countries is compared to here.

Then we looked at what we personally believe to be most important. In our case, that list includes the healthcare system in the other country (we're older :)). The other thing that is big for us is cost of living (because we are not rich).

We came up with a list of countries, then looked at various information including the CIA world factbook (google for it) to get more info. Then we looked for blogs of expatriates from those countries.

Now, we have a list of countries that suits our needs, and we're following different blogs of expatriates who are currently living there. We are looking at rental homes in various areas in each country on our list, and plan to visit them (staying 3 - 6 months at a time) until we find which one best suits us.

If you are serious about getting out of the US, there are places where you can go that aren't outside the reach of the average american. You just have to have a methodical approach to it, and start looking.

Good luck!

MsD

care to mention some of the countries you have narrowed it down to?
 
We came up with a list of countries, then looked at various information including the CIA world factbook (google for it) to get more info. Then we looked for blogs of expatriates from those countries.

Check out LOC's Country Studies:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/

and Area Studies:
http://library.columbia.edu/indiv/area.html
http://dir.yahoo.com/social_science/area_studies/
http://www.loc.gov/rr/international/int-gateway.html
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~natalieb/area.htm

Toward the bottom of that last link are links to where you can read foreign newspapers online. Some are in english.

You can also get international TV stations (some in english). Requires a box and a 30" dish. Most channels are free.
http://www.globecastwtv.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobeCast_World_TV
http://www.lyngsat.com/galaxy19.html

I know some international TV and radio is available via streaming:
http://www.surfmusic.de/

There is also shortwave.
http://radiostationworld.com/default.asp

What you see/hear will be very different than the US media.

hope that helps!

+rep for good methodology

-t
 
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Forget about Australia , alot of trouble to get a weapon , even harder to get a rifle.
Forget New Zealand , they are enacting food safety legislation that will basically make it illegal to grow your own food.
My suggestion is Switzerland , they are sheltered from the EU mess by virtue of not being in the EU and retaining their own currency.They have the highest per capita gold reserves in the world and high gun ownership rates plus it's mountainous so no-one would want to invade anyway it would be a bloodbath.
Of course i imagine most Europeans have the same ideas about moving to Switzerland.
 
As Americans, it's time to concentrate on making this country more free,
or working around the system.
No need to throw in the proverbial towel yet.
 
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First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

- Martin Niemöller

I'm serious as a heart attack. If Ron Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination, it looks like we are facing perpetual war, indefinite detention, a tanking currency, and complete disregard for the Constitution. Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

I'm tired of putting up with this. I'm not going to live in 1984-land. Thoughts...suggestions?

from the original thought:
Hangman
by Maurice Ogden
1.
Into our town the Hangman came,
Smelling of gold and blood and flame.
And he paced our bricks with a diffident air,
And built his frame in the courthouse square.

The scaffold stood by the courthouse side,
Only as wide as the door was wide;
A frame as tall, or little more,
Than the capping sill of the courthouse door.

And we wondered, whenever we had the time,
Who the criminal, what the crime
That the Hangman judged with the yellow twist
of knotted hemp in his busy fist.

And innocent though we were, with dread,
We passed those eyes of buckshot lead --
Till one cried: "Hangman, who is he
For whom you raised the gallows-tree?"

Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye,
And he gave us a riddle instead of reply:
"He who serves me best," said he,
"Shall earn the rope of the gallows-tree."

And he stepped down, and laid his hand
On a man who came from another land.
And we breathed again, for another's grief
At the Hangman's hand was our relief

And the gallows-frame on the courthouse lawn
By tomorrow's sun would be struck and gone.
So we gave him way, and no one spoke,
Out of respect for his Hangman's cloak.

2.
The next day's sun looked mildly down
On roof and street in our quiet town,
And stark and black in the morning air
Was the gallows-tree in the courthouse square.

And the Hangman stood at his usual stand
With the yellow hemp in his busy hand;
With his buckshot eye and his jaw like a pike
And his air so knowing and business-like.

And we cried, "Hangman, have you not done
Yesterday, with the foreign one?"
Then we fell silent, and stood amazed,
"Oh, not for him was the gallows raised."

He laughed a laugh as he looked at us:
"Did you think I'd gone to all this fuss
To hang one man? That's a thing I do
To stretch a rope when the rope is new."

Then one cried "Murder!" and one cried "Shame!"
And into our midst the Hangman came
To that man's place. "Do you hold," said he,
"with him that was meant for the gallows-tree?"

And he laid his hand on that one's arm.
And we shrank back in quick alarm!
And we gave him way, and no one spoke
Out of fear of his Hangman's cloak.

That night we saw with dread surprise
The Hangman's scaffold had grown in size.
Fed by the blood beneath the chute,
The gallows-tree had taken root;

Now as wide, or a little more,
Than the steps that led to the courthouse door,
As tall as the writing, or nearly as tall,
Halfway up on the courthouse wall.

3.
The third he took -- we had all heard tell --
Was a usurer, and an infidel.
"What," said the Hangman "have you to do
With the gallows-bound, and he a Jew?"

And we cried out, "Is this one he
Who has served you well and faithfully?"
The Hangman smiled: "It's a clever scheme
to try the strength of the gallows-beam."

The fourth man's dark, accusing song
Had scratched our comfort hard and long;
"And what concern," he gave us back.
"Have you for the doomed -- the doomed and Black?"

The fifth. The sixth. And we cried again,
"Hangman, Hangman, is this the man?"
"It's a trick," he said. "that we hangmen know
For easing the trap when the trap springs slow."

And so we ceased, and asked no more,
As the Hangman tallied his bloody score.
And sun by sun, and night by night,
The gallows grew to monstrous height.

The wings of the scaffold opened wide
Till they covered the square from side to side;
And the monster cross-beam, looking down,
Cast its shadow across the town.

4.
Then through the town the Hangman came,
Through the empty streets, and called my name --
And I looked at the gallows soaring tall,
And thought, "There is no one left at all

For hanging, and so he calls to me
To help pull down the gallows-tree."
So I went out with right good hope
To the Hangman's tree and the Hangman's rope.

He smiled at me as I came down
To the courthouse square through the silent town.
And supple and stretched in his busy hand
Was the yellow twist of the hempen strand.

And he whistled his tune as he tried the trap,
And it sprang down with a ready snap --
And then with a smile of awful command
He laid his hand upon my hand.

"You tricked me. Hangman!," I shouted then,
"That your scaffold was built for other men...
And I no henchman of yours," I cried,
"You lied to me, Hangman. Foully lied!"

Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye,
"Lied to you? Tricked you?" he said. "Not I.
For I answered straight and I told you true --
The scaffold was raised for none but you.

For who has served me more faithfully
Then you with your coward's hope?" said he,
"And where are the others who might have stood
Side by your side in the common good?"

"Dead," I whispered. And amiably
"Murdered," the Hangman corrected me:
"First the foreigner, then the Jew...
I did no more than you let me do."

Beneath the beam that blocked the sky
None had stood so alone as I.
The Hangman noosed me, and no voice there
Cried "Stop!" for me in the empty square.
 
If Ron Paul doesn't win the GOP nomination, it looks like we are facing perpetual war, indefinite detention, a tanking currency, and complete disregard for the Constitution. Where do we go? What do we do? Is there any place better?

The entire human race has always faced tyranny in every place throughout history. You can find a place that's better than America today, but the struggle exists there too, and it could get worse tomorrow. This is an eternal struggle that will not end until Jesus returns. Until that time, there is no place to escape it, there is no way to end it.

Accept those facts. Embrace them. Learn to live free in an unfree world. Determine for yourself that, while you can't erase tyranny, you can choose not to partake in it and to ameliorate it in whatever way you are empowered to.
 
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