Where Have Grassroots Efforts been HARMFUL???

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This is a question I've been pondering for more than a month now as we've seen Ron Paul fight the good fight and encounter more difficulty than even many of our own pessimists expected.

As someone who has donated a lot, been involved (going to New Hampshire on my own dime to help out HQ before the primary), and as someone who understands politics reasonably well (Republican politics in particular) I think the Grassroots has to think about this. Before you criticize me for not having posted on the forum, I've been out in the field, and I've supported Paul for years. Therefore... What has hurt us? Really, honestly, objectively, what has?

Don't think of it in terms of "We love Ron Paul!" but in terms of the undecided or uninformed voter, or the conservative Republican who would probably support Ron Paul for economics but is turned off by something we've done.

Because Ron Paul himself makes a point of speaking about "blowback" and unintended consequences of foreign policy, let's have a REAL discussion about the "blowback" of our own Grassroots efforts that have gone poorly or turned off more voters than they've won.



If I had to make a list of the things I think that we could have done better or not done at all, it would look something like this:

1. The "R3volution" logo. I like it, personally. And I know most of you like it, too. But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans, who ought to be the people we appeal to with Old-Right calls to cut spending and end departments.

So, I think I personally can surmise that in creating a logo, our revolution failed miserably. Few who are honest with themselves will deny this; many of us have heard negative reactions from all kinds of voters about the logo. Catchy? Sure, but it's a niche. It only works among supporters and the die-hards. It doesn't win votes.

2. The Blimp. I know that there are many here who love or have loved the blimp. Despite my not posting here in the past, I have been a lurker on the forum for some time, infrequently. I can recall reading posts from people who felt that, literally, the blimp was the NUMBER ONE priority for Grassroots efforts. And yet, when we look at it from a standpoint of the average voter, what effect did it have?

Well, it generated free media coverage. That's good, right? But what kind? We have to remember that the blimp was covered in two uninspiring banners: "Ron Paul Revolution" and "Who is Ron Paul? Google Ron Paul." Why not something like "Save Social Security: Vote Ron Paul!"

I wouldn't be wild about it, but do I need to be? Do you? We are reaching out to other voters, not placating our own desires to be important.

Beyond that, the Blimp sucked nearly a half-million dollars from the Grassroots. The Grassroots could have won the state of Alaska for less than that spent on local ads. Hell... If we had spent just a fraction of that in the states we've come very close in: North Dakota, Minnesota, Washington, the outcomes might have been very different.

I'm an economist. We call that opportunity cost - what COULD we have spent it on.


3. Moneybombs.

Now. This is a testy subject, I know. I actually support the moneybombs and donated solidly for the first two. The problem is that our exclusive reliance on them thereafter (MLK day, New Year's Eve, 51st Anniversary) really short-changed the campaign when we could have helped them. If we take just the MLK day and 51st Anniv. moneybombs and move them each back a couple of weeks, the campaign would have had much more money to spend on South Carolina and Nevada, and Super Tuesday. Remember, you have to buy advertising at least two weeks in advance in most cases, perhaps more. We give the campaign money days before Super Tuesday and they can't use it for Super Tuesday.



The last thing I'm going to say is one I want you all to ponder, because I'm guilty of it too. Simply: I think that this grassroots effort has been too quick to jump on this or that idea, just because it came from one of our own. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming.

But. We have to remember that once we get a few people on board to tackle one small project that fails to be anything worthwhile, they just wasted their energy on that... and not on something else useful.

We all have limited resources... money and time. It's how we spend these that define success. Ron Paul's Freedom Revolution has barely begun. We have to rally around each other to come up with significant, big ideas that will transform this movement and the country.

The biggest idea yet? A freedom march on Washington. Let's storm the National Mall with cries of liberty, and they won't ignore us any longer.

Before, however, we must consolidate our efforts. That's what I hope to get us talking about here.
 
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4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.
 
4. Crazy supporters.

I agree. Not just with the 9/11 people, but with all the "in-your-face" people. Time and time again I hear people say, I wouldn't mind supporting Paul, I like his ideas, I think Ron Paul has honesty and integrity, but I don't want to be associated with those people.

I'm not one of those people. I'm a small business owner who has always voted for the issues rather than the party. I correct people when they make claims that aren't true about Ron Paul and his record.

But I have not and will not be one of those people that stands on a street corner yelling at passersby. In the beginning, it got us some news coverage, but now it seems to have the opposite effect.

Combined with the media blackout, our continuing efforts are being laughed at. I'm in NC and we haven't had our primary yet. I hope I get the chance to vote for Ron Paul.
 
4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

9/11 Truthers definitely hurt.

Alex Jones as well.
 
4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

I'll agree to that, even though I believe some rather fishy things went on in 9/11. If im right, running around trying to preache it down every ones throat like alot of people do... is really not going to help my cause, and I think the sane 9/11 skeptics (prefer not to associate with "Truthers" who try to deal in an absolute "THE GOV'T DID IT") realize this, reason you dont see us quite as much.

That said, Ron Paul him self is a conspiracy theorist. Didn't you know, the North America Trade Union and Trans-Texas Corridor are just a myth? :rolleyes:
 
I'll agree to that, even though I believe some rather fishy things went on in 9/11. If im right, running around trying to preache it down every ones throat like alot of people do... is really not going to help my cause, and I think the sane 9/11 skeptics (prefer not to associate with "Truthers" who try to deal in an absolute "THE GOV'T DID IT") realize this, reason you dont see us quite as much.

That said, Ron Paul him self is a conspiracy theorist. Didn't you know, the North America Trade Union and Trans-Texas Corridor are just a myth? :rolleyes:

Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite. Just a tangent, but I thought that interesting.

Interesting guy, Alan Keyes.
 
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The Foregoing posts are what is harmful to this campaign.

People, the enemy has been identified numerous times. Ron Paul himself has said that "We are fighting an establishment that is nearly 100 years old" and even longer in the making in my opinion.

Did y'all think we could simply dismantle "The Beast" in just a few months?

The walls of Jericho didn't just simply fall down when Joshua arrived - they had to circle the city 13 times.

Babylon refused to let God's people go (Jer 50:33)

Pointing fingers at each other is non-productive. Everyone from every background (and ideology) has something to contribute to this campaign.

Yes, we are all frustrated but imagine how Huckabee's folks and all the supporters of the dropout candidates feel today - WE HAVE HOPE, THEY HAVE NONE.
 
Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night (post-campaign stop in Central Texas, just for the hell of it) and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite. Just a tangent, but I thought that interesting.

Interesting guy, Alan Keyes.

I heard about the TTC about a year ago from two people, one who worked in a locked-off section of the pentagon that had to do with space/areo design, and another person who I wiill not say anything about (For their own saftey, but needless to say, it was higher up), and they both seemed very distrusting of the TTC. So, that has made me question it.
 
Pointing fingers at each other is non-productive. Everyone from every background (and ideology) has something to contribute to this campaign.

Yes, we are all frustrated but imagine how Huckabee's folks and all the supporters of the dropout candidates feel today - WE HAVE HOPE, THEY HAVE NONE.

I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.
 
I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.

Precisely. We know that Paul has the "snowball's chance" but it's still a chance.

Yet, the biggest thing we can do for our movement is to consolidate behind big ideas and realize our mistakes. That's how you grow. Besides, we've got a lot of people running for CONGRESS! That's a big deal, folks!
 
Precisely. We know that Paul has the "snowball's chance" but it's still a chance.

Ron Paul needs at least 1 state win to keep this thing together after the election. I would be honored for that state to be NC, but I would be thrilled to see Texas go to Paul. We've got a lot of work to do.
 
I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.

Then, if you want to CONQUER the enemy, it would behoove you to properly IDENTIFY the enemy.

We the grassroots are simply the gasoline behind this movement.
 
without bother to read, I have to say the premise of your question is incredibly stupid. Without the grassroots there would have been no campaign.
 
Then, if you want to CONQUER the enemy, it would behoove you to properly IDENTIFY the enemy.

We the grassroots are simply the gasoline behind this movement.

We know who the enemy is. They're the ones that claim to be Republicans but do the opposite. We're not dismissing them at all. I have every intention to campaign against my current representatives in NC who fall lock step in line with Bush's policies in the name of "freedom" and "security".
 
without bother to read, I have to say the premise of your question is incredibly stupid. Without the grassroots there would have been no campaign.

Do you want grassroots efforts to be successful or not?

If we don't define what is success and what is failure, we might as well all give up, or keep doing our own little things off in individual spheres of mediocrity.

If we all can't understand what works/doesn't then there will be no Ron Paul Congress in our lifetime. But me, I still want it, so forgive me for trying to see where we are at our best.
 
Only 16K people signed up to be precinct captains. I also suspect that of the people who signed up, many did not walk there precincts. That is where the grassroots hurt us.
 
Neal Boortz said it best when he noted that 9-11 truthers have taken over the Paul campaign. When I saw an anti-Bush video on RP's main website, I knew the campaign was on the wrong track. This campaign seems to be run like a general election campaign not a primary... a primary is targeting the GOP base, that's why it has failed, it had the broad audience, not the base audience. When you have a bunch of angry independents and dems with a handful of disenchanted GOP members trying to convince the masses of the GOP that he should be the next president... you get what you get.
 
Neal Boortz said it best when he noted that 9-11 truthers have taken over the Paul campaign. When I saw an anti-Bush video on RP's main website, I knew the campaign was on the wrong track. This campaign seems to be run like a general election campaign not a primary... a primary is targeting the GOP base, that's why it has failed, it had the broad audience, not the base audience. When you have a bunch of angry independents and dems with a handful of disenchanted GOP members trying to convince the masses of the GOP that he should be the next president... you get what you get.

QFT!
 
Only 16K people signed up to be precinct captains. I also suspect that of the people who signed up, many did not walk there precincts. That is where the grassroots hurt us.

Yep. 125k was the original goal. We couldn't even get 25k to do it. Too much talk, not enough action even when asked by the campaign directly. While we had a lot of interaction with people, we apparently haven't connected with them.

My biggest issue has been trying to convert pro-war people to understand that we can fight terrorism smarter by using letters of Marque and Reprisal. I've managed to convince 1 out of about 20 that this route would be better than clusterbombing entire countries.

Having said that, the grassroots needs to be fighting smarter too. I've got a long way to go to even get my local GOP to answer emails or phone calls from me. They don't want us in their party. I don't want them in mine. I'm younger, and have more stamina. :)
 
1. The "R3volution" logo. I like it, personally. And I know most of you like it, too. But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans, who ought to be the people we appeal to with Old-Right calls to cut spending and end departments.

So, I think I personally can surmise that in creating a logo, our revolution failed miserably. Few who are honest with themselves will deny this; many of us have heard negative reactions from all kinds of voters about the logo. Catchy? Sure, but it's a niche. It only works among supporters and the die-hards. It doesn't win votes.

Well, I wasn't going to mention this because I figured..."What the hell?" But now that you have -- technically speaking, we are not engaged in a "revolution", per say, but a retrograde action. We are in fact, like most Republicans, reactionaries.

Consequently, if Dr. Paul's message would have been described as a reactionary force rather than a revolutionary force, Republicans would have understood and received it better.
 
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