Where do Ron Paul's ideas come from?

My demonstrated preference has nothing to do with your threat of force. Your exploitation of Ron Paul's name is encapsulated within the quote, and I do not feel the need to go out of my way to link to the source of the quote since you do not feel the need to refute the claim made in my signature. Apparently your demonstrated preference is to exploit Ron Paul's name for your personal use.

You are setting a fine example, threat of force not withstanding.

Second request: define "force". (Since you failed so remarkably in the first).

Nothing I've done is threatening force. Drop the demagoguery, be intellectually honest bro. C'mon, you can do it.

Exploiting Ron Paul's name? HOW? HOW ARE THESE EXPLOITING HIS NAME? Legit question, deserves legit answer. Good luck. :rolleyes:







Ron Paul's OWN WORDS. Wake up.

Awesome, so newbitech's demonstrates his preference for me posting the above videos. Excellent, thanks man... I give you a way out, but your ego can't handle it. Sad really :D.

Like my new sig ;). Don't you realise that the more you 'attack' the truth, the more damage you do to your very own position? :o
 
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This is me "exploiting Ron Paul's name" according to newbitech.


Ron Paul is a Voluntaryist



Sources

0:02-0:08 - quote from Ron Paul from Time Magazine.

1:04-1:20 - quote from Liberty Defined by Ron Paul.

1:28-1:47 - clip from The Arena with Eliot Spitzer, CNN, 13th May 2011. Full video.

1:58-2:16 - quote from Freedom Under Siege by Ron Paul.

2:26-2:36 - quote from The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

2:39-2:45 - quote from End The Fed by Ron Paul.

2:55-4:11 - clip of Ron Paul speaking in Prague, 29th May 2006. Full video.

4:17-5:41 - clip of Ron Paul being interviewed for Motorhome Diaries. Full video.

5:51-6:21 - clip of Ron Paul being interview by Adam Kokesh for Adam vs. The Man. Full video.


Where do Ron Paul's ideas come from?



Quotes and Audio Clips

0:04-0:09 - quote from Mises and Austrian Economics: A Personal View by Ron Paul

0:07-0:11 - audio from Ron Paul at the MSNBC debate, 3rd May 2007. Full video.

0:11-0:16 - quote from Ron Paul from Time Magazine.

0:26-0:29 - quote from Mises and Austrian Economics: A Personal View by Ron Paul

0:31-0:42 - quote from Human Action by Ludwig von Mises.

0:46-1:39 - quote from The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

2:00-2:05 - quote from The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

2:07-2:12 - quote from Lew Rockwell in an interview for The Liberal Post.

2:21-2:38 - quote from Murray Rothbard: In Memoriam chapter by Ron Paul.

2:40-2:52 - quote from The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard.

2:53-3:25 - quote from Ron Paul: A Most Unusual Politician by Murray Rothbard.

4:46-4:49 - audio from Ron Paul interview with Adam Kokesh for Adam vs. The Man. Full video

4:46-4:53 - quote from Freedom Under Siege by Ron Paul.

4:55-5:03 - quote and audio from The Arena with Eliot Spitzer, CNN, 13th May 2011. Full video.

5:06-5:13 - quote from Liberty Defined by Ron Paul.

5:11-5:20 - audio of Ron Paul being interviewed for Motorhome Diaries. Full video.

5:22-5:32 - quote from What is to be done? - 1961 Confidential Memorandum to the Volker Fund by Murray Rothbard.

5:37-5:41 - quote from Ron Paul from Time Magazine.

5:42-5:44 - audio from Ron Paul and Rand Paul interview by Neil Cavuto. Full video.

5:42-5:47 - quote from Liberty Defined by Ron Paul.

5:57-6:02 - quote from The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.

6:03-6:07 - quote from End The Fed by Ron Paul.

6:13-6:21 - quote from No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner.

6:20-6:33 - quote and audio from question posed to Ron Paul after his speech at the New Hampshire Lincoln-Regan Dinner, 25th March 2011. Full video.

6:23-6:33 - quote from Liberty Defined by Ron Paul.

6:41-6:48 - audio of Ron Paul being interviewed for Motorhome Diaries. Full video.

6:57-7:08 - audio of Ron Paul's speech at the Rally for the Republic. Full video.

7:07-7:29 - quote from The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard.

7:27-7:36 - audio from CNN Presidential Debate, 5th June 2007. Full video.

7:38-7:47 - quote from Liberty Defined by Ron Paul.
 
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I'll say this much:

Rockwell has devoted a large portion of his life to promoting Ron Paul, and defending him from opponents.

Also, any frequenters of LRC can pick up the times when Ron uses ideas recently floated by Lew and others in speeches and interviews. Which are legion.
 
Ohhh Liberty Eagle.... Nate....

Where are youuuu? :)

LE especially, you constantly give me neg rep's for promoting the ideas of Ron Paul above.

AND yet, when all you have to do is answer a legitimate simple question.... that would see me from not posting the above videos [which you hate me so much for posting] to 4k people, you're unable to get over your ego.

Interesting to say the least :p.
 
Ron Paul is a Republican candidate in the primaries for election to Office of the President of The united States. Ron Paul gets his ideas from ruminating on many sources of info, various authors and real world interaction. Ron's broad swatch of philosophy cannot be labeled as it fails as soon as you add another part of his philosophy into the mix. Labels are so 20th century.

Rev9
 
I will say that Conza gets too worked up - too strident in his tone - not a good method for getting a point across.

That said, Dale Carnegie? WTF? I've despised that man's ideas forever.

For one thing, I do not endeavor to "win" friends. I build friendships. They are not prizes. As for influencing people, I don't do that either. I put out the truth as I see it and let it speak for itself. Forget Carnegie's bankrupt world view.
It's not an ideological book. It's about effective communication and persuasive speech. I'm not a fan of the Carnegie ideological legacy either. If you want to influence the political thought in our society, you do have to learn how to "win" friends. Here are the bullet points on the back cover:
Here are the 12 things it(the book) will do for YOU:
*Get you out of a mental rut, give you new thoughts, new visions, new ambitions
*Enable you to make friends easily
*Increase your popularity
*Help you win people to your way of thinking
*Increase your influence, your ability to get things done.
*Enable you to win new clients, new customers
*Increase your earning power
*Make you a better salesman, a better executive
*Help you to handle complaints, avoid arguments, keep your human contacts smooth and pleasant
*Make you a better speaker, a more entertaining conversationalist
*Make the principles of psychology easy for you to apply in your daily contacts
*Help you to arouse enthusiasm among your associates
 
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ron paul is a republican candidate in the primaries for election to office of the president of the united states. Ron paul gets his ideas from ruminating on many sources of info, various authors and real world interaction. Ron's broad swatch of philosophy cannot be labeled as it fails as soon as you add another part of his philosophy into the mix. labels are so 20th century.

rev9
qft!!
 
Ron Paul gets his ideas from ruminating on many sources of info, various authors and real world interaction. Ron's broad swatch of philosophy cannot be labeled as it fails as soon as you add another part of his philosophy into the mix. Labels are so 20th century.

And he recommends reading/ provides a list what has directly influenced him. He has so stated that Austrian Economics is such a school of thought, that and Rothbard directly influenced his thinking.

It's in his book; the one you haven't read. His words, not mine champ.
 
Ron Paul is a Republican candidate in the primaries for election to Office of the President of The united States. Ron Paul gets his ideas from ruminating on many sources of info, various authors and real world interaction. Ron's broad swatch of philosophy cannot be labeled as it fails as soon as you add another part of his philosophy into the mix. Labels are so 20th century.

Rev9

Well said.
 
And he recommends reading/ provides a list what has directly influenced him. He has so stated that Austrian Economics is such a school of thought, that and Rothbard directly influenced his thinking.

It's in his book; the one you haven't read. His words, not mine champ.

I too provide books and authors to people who wish to follow my opinions source of thinking. That said, I have never agreed 100% with any book that I have read..even hard core non-fiction is still rife with theories, opinions and conclusions. I run all of those through my own experience filter and come up with my opinion. That is what Ron Paul does as well. It is why he can speak for a few hours without a teleprompter. He has internalised it and does not need to quote to elucidate his thoughts. He is well aware of what he thinks.

Best Regards
Rev9
 
And yet that doesn't mean hw's not supportive of a particular school of thought. He openly acknowledges being a libertarian, and a member of the Austrian School of Economics.

HE HELPED SET UP THE MISES INSTITUTE.

LE has acknowledged the existence of this... but refuses to answer a simple, legitimate question. To be expected.
 
And yet that doesn't mean hw's not supportive of a particular school of thought. He openly acknowledges being a libertarian, and a member of the Austrian School of Economics.

HE HELPED SET UP THE MISES INSTITUTE.

LE has acknowledged the existence of this... but refuses to answer a simple, legitimate question. To be expected.

he doesn't openly acknowledge to being an anarchist of any kind, am I right?
 
And yet that doesn't mean hw's not supportive of a particular school of thought. He openly acknowledges being a libertarian, and a member of the Austrian School of Economics.

HE HELPED SET UP THE MISES INSTITUTE.

LE has acknowledged the existence of this... but refuses to answer a simple, legitimate question. To be expected.

he doesn't openly acknowledge to being an anarchist of any kind, am I right?
 
he doesn't openly acknowledge to being an anarchist of any kind, am I right?

Who ever made the claim he is an anarchist? :confused:

He openly claims to support self-government over a return to the constitution. He openly supports voluntarism.
 
Who ever made the claim he is an anarchist? :confused:

He openly claims to support self-government over a return to the constitution. He openly supports voluntarism.

you said that was his goal
"Ron Paul’s real goal is self government / anarcho-capitalism"
If you're going to tell me anarcho-capitalism is not a form of anarchism, then by all means, admit anarcho-capitalism requires there to be a government. And not all governments are force, not all governments are bad. Dare?
 
you said that was his goal
"Ron Paul’s real goal is self government / anarcho-capitalism"
If you're going to tell me anarcho-capitalism is not a form of anarchism, then by all means, admit anarcho-capitalism requires there to be a government. And not all governments are force, not all governments are bad. Dare?

It's not the form of anarchism Mises attacks, or Ron Paul rejects... that which I also reject. That type of anarchism is utopian, requires a change in human nature etc.. this is what Rev, LE.. rile against (just see one of Rev's latest responses where he makes the exact same point Mises does... i.e relating to compulsion.)

They attack a strawman. They love using the word that I do not associate with, a label I reject. It's more for their own self they do it, so they can feel righteous (however misguidedly so).

Hoppe: Rothbard's anarchism was not the sort of anarchism that his teacher and mentor Mises had rejected as hopelessly naive, of course. "The anarchists," Mises had written,

contend that a social order in which nobody enjoys privileges at the expense of his fellow-citizens could exist without any compulsion and coercion for the prevention of action detrimental to society. . . . The anarchists overlook the undeniable fact that some people are either too narrow-minded or too weak to adjust themselves spontaneously to the conditions of social life. . . . An anarchistic society would be exposed to the mercy of every individual. Society cannot exist if the majority is not ready to hinder, by the application or threat of violent action, minorities from destroying the social order.[10]

Indeed, Rothbard wholeheartedly agreed with Mises that without resort to compulsion, the existence of society would be endangered and that behind the rules of conduct whose observance is necessary to assure peaceful human cooperation must stand the threat to force if the whole edifice of society is not to be continually at the mercy of any one of its members. One must be in a position to compel a person who will not respect the lives, health, personal freedom, or private property of others to acquiesce in the rules of life in society.[11]

Inspired in particular by the nineteenth-century American anarchist political theorists Lysander Spooner and Benjamin Tucker and the Belgian economist Gustave de Molinari, from the outset Rothbard's anarchism took it for granted that there will always be murderers, thieves, thugs, con artists, etc., and that life in society would be impossible if they were not punished by physical force. As a reflection of this fundamental realism—anti-utopianism—of his private-property anarchism, Rothbard, unlike most contemporary political philosophers, accorded central importance to the subject of punishment. For him, private property and the right to physical defense were inseparable. No one can be said to be the owner of something if he is not permitted to defend his property by physical violence against possible invaders and invasions. "Would," Rothbard asked, "somebody be allowed to 'take the law into his own hands'? Would the victim, or a friend of the victim, be allowed to exact justice personally on the criminal?" and he answered, "of course, Yes, since all rights of punishment derive from the victim's right of self-defense" (p. 90). Hence, the question is not whether or not evil and aggression exist, but how to deal with its existence justly and efficiently, and it is only in the answer to this question that Rothbard reaches conclusions which qualify him as an anarchist.

There is also this:

AEN: Was Mises better than the classical liberals on the question of the state?

HOPPE: Mises thought it was necessary to have an institution that suppresses those people who cannot behave appropriately in society, people who are a danger because they steal and murder. He calls this institution government.

But he has a unique idea of how government should work. To check its power, every group and every individual, if possible, must have the right to secede from the territory of the state. He called this the right of self determination, not of nations as the League of Nations said, but of villages, districts, and groups of any size. In Liberalism and Nation, State, and Economy, he elevates secession to a central principle of classical liberalism. If it were possible to grant this right of self-determination to every individual person, he says, it would have to be done. Thus the democratic state becomes, for Mises, a voluntary organization.

AEN: Yet you have been a strong critic of democracy.

HOPPE: Yes, as that term is usually understood. But under Mises's unique definition of democracy, the term means self rule or self government in its most literal sense. All organizations in society, including government, should be the result of voluntary interactions.

In a sense you can say that Mises was a near anarchist. If he stopped short of affirming the right of individual secession, it was only because of what he regarded as technical grounds. In modern democracy, we exalt the method of majority rule as the means of electing the rulers of a compulsory monopoly of taxation.

Mises frequently made an analogy between voting and the marketplace. But he was quite aware that voting in the marketplace means voting with your own property. The weight of your vote is in accord with your value productivity. In the political arena, you do not vote with your property; you vote concerning the property of everyone, including your own. People do not have votes according to their value productivity.

AEN: Yet Mises attacks anarchism in no uncertain terms.

HOPPE: His targets here are left-utopians. He attacks their theory that man is good enough not to need an organized defense against the enemies of civilization. But this is not what the private-property anarchist believes. Of course, murderers and thieves exist. There needs to be an institution that keeps these people at bay. Mises calls this institution government, while people who want no state at all point out that all essential defensive services can be better performed by firms in the market. We can call these firms government if we want to.

So.. if you are better than the classical liberals like Mises is. If you allow for secession down to the individual level... that makes the "government" voluntary. You can thus have competing "governments" in the market for security, defense.

Then I have no problem with that, since you're no longer a statist (there is no MONOPOLY or aggression). You support DRO's, PDA's etc.. you just call them "government" in the sense that essentially no-one else uses the term. lol, fine, whatever.

Anarchy is often used as a synonymous with "chaos". I don't support chaos. Government planning is chaos.
 
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It should be pointed out in this context that a synthesis of anarchism and capitalism was regarded as impossible by traditional proponents of both doctrines. While the defenders of capitalism such as the classical liberals of the nineteenth century believed that government should be kept strictly limited and as much as possible handled by the market, it should not be thought that they allied themselves with anarchism. On the contrary, it would not be too strong to describe classical liberalism's attitude toward anarchism as one of both contempt as well as fear. It was contemptuous because as one classical liberal philosopher wrote, anarchism "would be practicable only in a world of angels" and the "liberal understands quite clearly" that "one must be in a position to compel the per son who will not respect lives,health, personal feelings, or private property of others to acquiesce in the rules of life in society." And classical liberalism had feared anarchism because , while encompassing a broad spectrum of thought ranging from the rampant individualism of Max Stirner to the communism of Peter Kropotkin, the dominant strain of anarchism ostensibly place it squarely within the socialist camp. Daniel Guerin put the matter suc cinctly. Anarchism, he says, "is really a synonym for socialism." And, while acknowledging "Stirner's complete rejection of all political, moral, and traditional ties of the individual", " Max Adler goes so far as to argue that Stirner cannot even be considered an anarchist since anarchism is only "a definite political trend within the socialist labor movement," and Stirner was not a socialist.


Hence, not just the state but the capitalist economic system were the principle evils for the majority of the anarchist thinkers of the nineteenth century. It was not accidental that in Kropotkin's delineation of the three cardinal aims of anarchist communism the first was an injunction against capitalism: "Emancipation from the yoke of capital; production in common and free consumption of all the products of common labor."Only after his exhortation to abolish capitalism does one find a call for "emancipation from government" and "emancipation from religion." The views of the Italian anarchist, Errico Malatesta, and the Britisher, William Morris, were similar. Both equated anarchism with communism and called for the free distribution of all goods. Bakunin, while a collectivist rather than a communist, also advocated the liberation from capitalism. Even in the writings of the more individualist-oriented anarchists one finds condemnations of capitalism coupled with panegyrics to socialism. In a striking phrase, Proudhon not only declared that "Property is theft" , but also exclaimed "What is the capitalist? Everything! What should he be? Nothing!" Similarly, the English anarchist, William Godwin, asserted that "it follows upon the principles of equal and impartial justice, that the good things of the world are a common stock, upon which one man has as valid title as another to draw for what he wants." And the American anarchist, Benjamin Tucker, contended that there were "two schools of Socialistic thought," the State Socialism of Karl Marx and the Anarchism of Proudhon and the American Josiah Warren. Tucker placed himself in the anarcho-socialist camp. Thus, it is not surprising that anarchism was abhorrent to the classical liberals. "Liberalism," wrote Ludwig von Mises, "is not anarchism, nor has it anything to do with anarchism," and the twentieth century followers of classical liberalism, the minarachists, have followed their mentors in rejecting anarchism.

But while a quick glance at the major anarchist thinkers of Europe and England, and America would ostensibly indicate that all were firmly ant-capitalistic, a closer look will show that this is incorrect, for the term "capitalism" has been used in socialist literature in two contradictory manners. On the one hand, the term is used to denote production according to the dictates of the market, or in socialist terminology, "commodity production." On the other, capitalism is defined in terms of class relations, i.e., the ownership of the means of production by the "bourgeois," or ruling, class. The former may be termed the economic definition and the latter the sociological definition. If the economic definition is used, it follows that the more things are handled by the market, the more capitalistic the society. This means that price controls, tariffs, licensing restrictions, state unemployment compensation, state poor relief, etc., whether they are considered beneficial or not, must be classified as anti-capitalistic institutions since they constitute modifications or restrictions of the market. Since the state does not sell its services on the market, "state capitalism," according to the economic definition, is a contradiction in terms.

But if the sociological definition is used, the state becomes compatible with capitalism, for whatever serves to entrench the bourgeois class, the owners of the means of production, in power is, ipso-facto, "capitalistic." Since both proponents and critics of capitalism were in general agreement that market competition would force the "rate of profit" to fall, the two definitions lead to mutually exclusive consequences. Since the economic or market definition posits pure laissez faire, any government intervention to protect the interests of the bourgeois is anathema. But that is precisely what is entailed in the sociological definition: state intervention to protect profits and institutionalize the position of the property-owning class. When the sociological definition is used, capitalism becomes incomprehensible without control of the state by the bourgeois. For with the power of the sate behind them, the bourgeoisie are able to protect their privileged positions from the threat of competition by the establishment of tariff barriers, licensing restrictions, and other statist measures.

The proponents of capitalism, however, had only the economic definition in mind when they defended capitalism. Far from intending to defend state intervention to preserve artificially high profits, it was, in fact, such pro-capitalist writers as Adam Smith who vehemently condemned such "mercantilist" arrangements and urged their replacement by free trade capitalism. Since comparison can only be made when definitions tap the same domain, confusion occurred because of these definitional differences, and critics and opponents of capitalism talked past each other when many were in basic agreement. But if the economic spectrum is analyzed from the point of view of the economic definition only, then comparison can be made on the following basis: capitalism would be equated with the market, communism with the absence of the market, and mercantilism with a mixed or restricted market.


http://mises.org/books/osterfeld_freedom.pdf

Even Rothbard denied the anarchist label at one point:

Considering the dominant anarchists, it is obvious that the question "are libertarians anarchists?" must be answered unhesitatingly in the negative.

Are Libertarians "Anarchists"?

I wish Rothbard would have never coined the term "anarcho-capitalism". It is such a useless label when both anarchy and capitalism have a hundred different meanings to millions of different people.
 
It's not the form of anarchism Mises attacks, or Ron Paul rejects... that which I also reject. That type of anarchism is utopian, requires a change in human nature etc.. this is what Rev, LE.. rile against (just see one of Rev's latest responses where he makes the exact same point Mises does... i.e relating to compulsion.)

They attack a strawman. They love using the word that I do not associate with, a label I reject. It's more for their own self they do it, so they can feel righteous (however misguidedly so).



There is also this:



So.. if you are better than the classical liberals like Mises is. If you allow for secession down to the individual level... that makes the "government" voluntary. You can thus have competing "governments" in the market for security, defense.

Then I have no problem with that, since you're no longer a statist (there is no MONOPOLY or aggression). You support DRO's, PDA's etc.. you just call them "government" in the sense that essentially no-one else uses the term. lol, fine, whatever.

Anarchy is often used as a synonymous with "chaos". I don't support chaos. Government planning is chaos.

anarchy is not synonymous with chaos, no anarchist would say he supports chaos.

If you do not support anarchy, don't bash every form of government as if they are equal, they are not.

Government planning is not chaos, it's order which you dislike.

"That type of anarchism is utopian, requires a change in human nature etc."
Double standard, as if your form of anarchism or whatever system you advocate, does not require a change in human nature. Ever notice that your system only exists in your head and in the past? There's a reason why, human nature rejects it via the market.

They attack a strawman. They love using the word that I do not associate with, a label I reject.
it's not a strawman, you always beat people up at the first mention of the word government, then you turn around and say you are for "self government", as if any criminal, any person isn't for it. If you are not an anarchist, admit you support government. If you always reject all forms of government without actually knowing what it is, then you cannot blame people for mistaking you as an anarchist or complain it's a strawman.
 
anarchy is not synonymous with chaos, no anarchist would say he supports chaos.

He said it is often used as a synonym. I am sure a lot of anarchists do not advocate chaos, but the vast majority of the population equate anarchy with chaos.

If you do not support anarchy, don't bash every form of government as if they are equal, they are not.

He doesn't advocate what most people view anarchy as (chaos and lawlessness). And his posts on monarchy vs democracy demonstrate he definitely does not view every form of government as equal. Some forms of government are most definitely more tyrannical than others.

A problem is that most people conflate society with government. If someone says they don't want a monopolistic (governmental) legal system, it is assumed they don't want a legal system at all. And since anarchy is seen as synonymous with chaos and lawlessness, it is not very useful to classify us as anarchists.

The great non sequitur committed by defenders of the State, including classical Aristotelian and Thomist philosophers, is to leap from the necessity of society to the necessity of the State. - Murray Rothbard

So if I am against coercive monopolies known as governments, but I am for law and order, am I an anarchist? Some would say yes since I am against all forms of coercive monopolies (governments), some would say no since I don't advocate chaos,lawlessness, or socialism.

Double standard, as if your form of anarchism or whatever system you advocate, does not require a change in human nature.

It doesn't. Private property and property rights are already valued by humans, most people are just mistaken as to what is necessary to protect them.

In contrast to such Utopians as Marxists or left-wing anarchists (anarcho-communists or anarcho-syndicalists), libertarians do not assume that the ushering in of the purely free society of their dreams will also bring with it a new, magically transformed Libertarian Man. We do not assume that the lion will lie down with the lamb, or that no one will have criminal or fraudulent designs upon his neighbor. The "better" that people will be, of course, the better any social system will work, in particular the less work any police or courts will have to do. But no such assumption is made by libertarians. What we assert is that, given any particular degree of "goodness" or "badness" among men, the purely libertarian society will be at once the most moral and the most efficient, the least criminal and the most secure of person or property. - Murray Rothbard
 
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