Where are the LIGHT DUTY DIESEL Pickups and SUV's?

[tod evans]

How about a wood-framed aluminum bodied 3 wheeler...

 

[ghengis86]

The technology for high mileage, light-duty trucks has been here for decades. Unfortunately, so has government regs. So how do we get around that?

Just drop a little turbo diesel in a Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma and you're done. The 4-wheeling guys have been dropping diesels into jeeps and trail rigs for years. Run your truggy on vegetable oil and you're good to go.

 

[acptulsa]

How about a wood-framed aluminum bodied 3 wheeler...

I think we can do better than wooden framing. And even though the JAP engine was amazingly efficient for its day, we can do better there as well. That said, the old Morgan does prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a cyclecar can be attractive, sexy and great fun to drive.

The technology for high mileage, light-duty trucks has been here for decades. Unfortunately, so has government regs. So how do we get around that?

Just drop a little turbo diesel in a Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma and you're done. The 4-wheeling guys have been dropping diesels into jeeps and trail rigs for years. Run your truggy on vegetable oil and you're good to go.

Yes and no. Yes, but in some states it won't be street legal because it won't pass the emissions test, but if it's old enough it'll be hard to find a lot of them to convert and if it's new enough it'll be overweight from the silly regulations, but to escape those silly regulations in newly built units there's another way--the minitruck category allowed by the laws of nearly forty states.

 

[tod evans]

I think we can do better than wooden framing. And even though the JAP engine was amazingly efficient for its day, we can do better there as well. That said, the old Morgan does prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a cyclecar can be attractive, sexy and great fun to drive.

Hold on now......As a carpenter I've got to campaign for wooden parts..:o

 

[presence]

The technology for high mileage, light-duty trucks has been here for decades. Unfortunately, so has government regs. So how do we get around that?

Just drop a little turbo diesel in a Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma and you're done. The 4-wheeling guys have been dropping diesels into jeeps and trail rigs for years. Run your truggy on vegetable oil and you're good to go.

We're lacking the "little turbo diesel" in the States. The two small diesels we have the most of (and they're few and far between) are the VW TDI and the 4BT Cummins (not the 6BT in the Dodge 2500, but the smaller "bread truck" engine). The VW is a bit underpowered for a Tacoma and the 4BT is too heavy. This leaves in you in diesel engine import mode.... In reality front clip import mode. $3000+ for the motor (I believe 1kzte for a 2000 tacoma)... and whatever time/parts+++ for "just drop it in" Even if you accomplish either swap you're still not going to get much beyond 30 mpg. A 45mpg vw TDI is much more aerodynamic and lighter than a Tacoma. The 4BT would be like driving around with a cast iron bath tub on your hood. Any of the new vehicles are going to require emmisions in many states; so you can't (I don't think you can) just plug and play a 2012 D-4D Hilux engine into a 2012 Tacoma; "Trail Rigs" obviously exempt.

 

[acptulsa]

We're lacking the "little turbo diesel" in the States. The two small diesels we have the most of (and they're few and far between) are the VW TDI and the 4BT Cummins (not the 6BT in the Dodge 2500, but the smaller "bread truck" engine). The VW is a bit underpowered for a Tacoma and the 4BT is too heavy. This leaves in you in diesel engine import mode.... In reality front clip import mode. $3000+ for the motor (I believe 1kzte for a 2000 tacoma)... and whatever time/parts+++ for "just drop it in" Even if you accomplish either swap you're still not going to get much beyond 30 mpg. A 45mpg vw TDI is much more aerodynamic and lighter than a Tacoma. The 4BT would be like driving around with a cast iron bath tub on your hood. Any of the new vehicles are going to require emmisions in many states; so you can't just plug and play a 2012 Hilux engine into a 2012 Tacoma; "Trail Rigs" obviously exempt.

Rebuilding and repowering pre-regulation vehicles is a wonderful thing. For example, because it predates a lot of silly regulations, this...

...weighs less than 90% of the minivans on the U.S. market. But the problem is, there are only so many of them to rebuild...

 

[tod evans]

Old pick-ups can be bought cheap and there are aftermarket panels/even complete bodies for everything from the 30's on, suspension parts too....

All that's really needed is the old title and with that you could build/modify to your hearts content..

 

[presence]

1961 Dodge Seneca

145 hp 215 lb-ft

2005+ Toyota Hilux D-4D

155 hp and 254 lb-ft (without aftermarket chip)


I'd pack my tools in the back of that all day. I'd bet you'd get 45+ MPG.

 

[acptulsa]

...the old title...

Don't forget the VIN plate. And, yes, that's the tricky part.

I don't think three wheeled cars and minitrucks are so completely foreign to Americans that we couldn't get around fed regs that way. And with fuel prices and the economy in the current state, I expect the market to move that direction anyway. We could build and sell all those cars the auto industry isn't building for us. But we have to be less cautious and more unafraid of getting outside the box than Detroit and Tokyo are.

But, yes, rebuilding old relics is a way to build up to some kind of new production. And it's another good way to demonstrate to people just what those asinine regulations are doing to us. An assembly line not for mere assembly, but for disassembly and renovation, would be an interesting thing to design. Would certainly be hard on the supply of whatever model you chose for your efforts. Eventually you would run out of examples worth rebuilding.

 

[AFPVet]

Very little kerosene.

Yeah, all true--but I'm going to quibble over terms. Turbodiesels aren't bad on power. But any normally aspirated diesel has relatively less power than a gas engine. They do not lack torque. Torque is sheer force; power is a measurement of how much torque you can produce per second. So, diesels are used to carry heavy loads, because they make the torque, but aren't used for dragsters because power gives you acceleration and gas engines give you power. Turbines, meanwhile, are slow to spool up and don't give you engine braking, but run on any fuel.

In a hybrid the engine runs a generator (alternator). Doesn't matter what kind of engine it is. Any engine can turn an alternator.

True, but diesels can be tuned to create a lot of horsepower too I think it was an Audi TDI or something like that which made a good about of horsepower out of like three liters. Also, acceleration is a combination of torque (the force that gets you moving) and horsepower (the force that keeps you moving).

You really want to make the most power lower in the RPM band because if you have two vehicles that weigh the same, have the same transmissions... the vehicle that makes x amount of horsepower before the other one is going to get to the end of the 1/4 first. Diesels happen to be great at making horsepower lower in the RPM band, unfortunately, many don't have very good HP/weight ratios. I would like to see that changing. If you put a 300hp diesel in a mustang, you'll be hitting the 1/4 MUCH faster than the 300hp gasoline engine provided that you can hook lol.

 

[presence]

2004 TOYOTA RAV4 XT4 D-4D SILVER
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-TOYO...1333199?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item257841444f
current bid $2800, ends 2 hours

uk bidders only

42.8 MPG combined fuel economy

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/rav4/16397/toyota-rav4

Regular Gasoline

21 MPG

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/20375.shtml


over 10,000 miles 233 gallons diesel @4.05/g vs 476 petro gallons at $3.50

10k diesel miles: $943
10k petro miles: $1666
-------------
$723

100k miles

$7,230

200k miles life of the vehicle

$14,460

+/- 150k annual sales in the US, of this vehicle alone

2,169,000,000

$2.1 Billion in unnecessary fuel expense just by adding another years worth of these SUV's to the market without the available-everywhere-else diesel.

@ 13c on the dollar: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price1.htm

=$282M

Catch that? Over the life of the vehicle, .gov gets $282 million in additional fuel tax revenue by disallowing diesel engines on one model year of one SUV.

 

[acptulsa]

...you'll be hitting the 1/4 MUCH faster than the 300hp gasoline engine provided that you can hook lol.

Yup. That's why turbocharging is so nice for diesels. Yeah, there's turbo lag. But turbocharging boosts power much more than torque, which is just what a diesel needs for automotive use. You'll still get enough torque to break loose, of course. But not so much more that it's about impossible to stay hooked.

And making power 'lower down' isn't that decisive. It's all in the gearing.

There's a reason I like electric motor drive. The more of them you use, the less heavy driveline you need. Is any transmission so wonderful as to be worth its weight? Does anyone here really like changing CV joints?

 

[presence]

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/yanmar_4kw.asp?page=yanmar_4kw
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Slow-Turning 5 kW Yanmar Diesel Generator $3375

With that Warp 11 EV setup I mentioned earlier; maybe 1/4 of the batteries.
.24 g/hr




[/FONT]

 

[Tod]

My neighbor the dairy farmer still drives an old diesel VW pickup from the 70's. It is the second one he's owned in the 24 yrs I've known him.

 

[presence]

My neighbor the dairy farmer still drives an old diesel VW pickup from the 70's. It is the second one he's owned in the 24 yrs I've known him.

81 rabbit D ending in 30 minutes on ebay; $2900 Ohio

 

[Anti Federalist]

Meh, while I like the whole nearly 100mpg thing, I don't like the
a). Ford thing
b). Being encased in something that could totally double as a space ship of some sort. Man that thing is fugly.

A - First On Race Day

B - What new car isn't fugly? They all look like Tylenol capsules on acid AFAIC. Nobody is ever going to sing rockabilly songs about their Prius or Accord.

 

[AGRP]

Isnt the vw tdi series diesel? They are all over the place.

 

[presence]

Isnt the vw tdi series diesel? They are all over the place.

Yep. I drive one. They're not trucks or SUV's though. There is the new Passat TDI Wagon.

 

[tod evans]

I know it's not a diesel, but am I the only one who finds the S&S powered Morgan extremely cool?

 

[presence]

I know it's not a diesel, but am I the only one who finds the S&S powered Morgan extremely cool?

Have you seen the harley powered [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Ellipse? [/FONT]http://www.planetltd.com/

I'd still prefer a yanmar diesel in it.