Where are the LIGHT DUTY DIESEL Pickups and SUV's?

[madengr]

How about importing one of those foreign trucks and driving it here? Can you if you had the FRN's?

Maybe, but cost prohibitive.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7394125_import-diesel-pickup-north-america.html

 

[tod evans]

Diesel powered scooter.......

 

[acptulsa]

Looks like a market opportunity for those with some free capital...

Maybe an old Perkins 3 cylinder fitted with a turbo mated to a nice aluminum bodied 6 speed.........all bolted to universal mounts that could be welded to anything from a cub-cadet to a late model p/u ....No computer, adjustable fuel rail pressure and boost...neat project..

Old Perkins? Seriously?

Why not a full electric-hybrid with a Cummins/Onan or other quality generator? You could do a heavy duty driveline that allows you to sell repowered and refurbished trucks, thus avoiding the expenses of compliance with current standards, and a light duty driveline in a new minitruck--designed in house or outsourced from someone like Cub Cadet.

More modern, more efficient, no turbocharger maintenance.

Then you could offer the lighter driveline in a three wheeled car. Losing the fourth wheel causes the fedgov to regard it as a motorcycle, which not only reduces development costs a whole lot, but allows you to design it yourself (four wheelers are so regulated there's a reason they're all so similar--they've basically been designed by Washington for years now). Also, by avoiding the 'automobile' classification you can make it a whole lot lighter. Losing one wheel and a library full of regulations allows you to carve a thousand pounds or more off of the thing.

 

[muzzled dogg]

nice thread

 

[acptulsa]

So many things on this forum come to this point of, there's a market! We have a way around the regulations that are killing this! Someone ought to run with this ball! And then no one does.

Are we, like the rest of the nation, afraid that as soon as we start, the fedgov will regulate us out of existence? Don't blame you; it isn't like it has never happened before. The question is, are we making political headway or not? The question is, if we do it, and use any governmental attempts to kill our effort as educational tools (want to know why the economy tanked? Look at what Washington does to those who try to fix it), we could do well enough in a power struggle to get our product to market. I wouldn't have said that ten years ago, but I think we could do it today.

I also believe I could produce a prototype of an appealing, attractive, basic, efficient diesel-electric hybrid mini-truck, legal for street duty in (last I heard) 37 states and capable of being cheaply redeveloped as a passenger car, for less than fifty thousand dollars. Can this forum, which once produced million dollar moneybomb days, call me on that and see if it's a bluff?

 

[tod evans]

I like the idea, unfortunately all I can afford to chip in is time and half baked ideas...

If it was me working on developing a kit I'd start with a normally aspirated no electronics basic kit..

Hybrid could be an option as could turbo-charging but the ability to burn almost anything should be foremost, and I really like using American castings that are recycled....

 

[klamath]

So many things on this forum come to this point of, there's a market! We have a way around the regulations that are killing this! Someone ought to run with this ball! And then no one does.

Are we, like the rest of the nation, afraid that as soon as we start, the fedgov will regulate us out of existence? Don't blame you; it isn't like it has never happened before. The question is, are we making political headway or not? The question is, if we do it, and use any governmental attempts to kill our effort as educational tools (want to know why the economy tanked? Look at what Washington does to those who try to fix it), we could do well enough in a power struggle to get our product to market. I wouldn't have said that ten years ago, but I think we could do it today.

I also believe I could produce a prototype of an appealing, attractive, basic, efficient diesel-electric hybrid mini-truck, legal for street duty in (last I heard) 37 states and capable of being cheaply redeveloped as a passenger car, for less than fifty thousand dollars. Can this forum, which once produced million dollar moneybomb days, call me on that and see if it's a bluff?

Diesels including 3 cylinder perkins are getting hit hard in CA by the air quality control board. Even heavy equipment and small off the grid diesel electric plants are being forced to replace perfectly good engines to meet standards.

 

[AGRP]

How hard can it be to cheaply convert a car to diesel?

 

[madengr]

Anyone know the MPG of a John Deere Gator; 26 HP diesel engine?

 

[acptulsa]

How hard can it be to cheaply convert a car to diesel?

Mighty hard. Most gasoline engines aren't stout enough to stand the twenty-something to one compression and ignition by detonation. And many of the auxiliary systems are very different and incompatible, too.

Diesels including 3 cylinder perkins are getting hit hard in CA by the air quality control board. Even heavy equipment and small off the grid diesel electric plants are being forced to replace perfectly good engines to meet standards.

California, as always, is difficult. Of course, a diesel running on vegetable oil is extraordinarily clean, doesn't produce significant amounts of sulfur, and is efficient enough to minimize carbon dioxide output. But environmentalists have never been averse to squelching something that could solve the problem because it doesn't fit neatly into their regulations. See, with actual environmentalists, it's about power, not pollution. Their power.

Hybrid could be an option as could turbo-charging but the ability to burn almost anything should be foremost, and I really like using American castings that are recycled....

I like not turbocharging, but a turbine, because it can burn anything. Turbines have disadvantages as motivation for a motor vehicle, but in an electric hybrid they'd work just fine--you'd never notice those 'disadvantages' if all it had to do was turn a big alternator. But that said, the Onan-type generator package has certain huge advantages for a startup vehicle manufacturer. No development costs, someone else covers the warranty, if you come up with something better it's just a component swap into the new model, all of these are good things. Of course, when having automotive dreams the powerplant often stimulates the creative juices, but in this case a safer route is a better route.

As for hybrid, it really doesn't necessarily require a mass of computerization. If you're in a more relaxed EPA vehicle classification, you could build an entire hybrid with less computerization than one EPA-certified clean gas engine. And there are other advantages to an electric hybrid. People can charge them and use them as electrics, regenerative braking really does add a whole lot of efficiency (you'll notice these hybrids get great mileage, even though their batteries are very, very heavy and make them extra heavy), and the electric drive eliminates the heavy, expensive transmission or transaxle--just use one motor per powered wheel.

With an appealing design and development aimed at American conditions, we really could turn something like this into a hit. We could.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

So many things on this forum come to this point of, there's a market! We have a way around the regulations that are killing this! Someone ought to run with this ball! And then no one does.

Are we, like the rest of the nation, afraid that as soon as we start, the fedgov will regulate us out of existence?

You said it all right there. The problem is not that people aren't smart enough. The problem is that the smart people are smart enough to know they'll get crushed in the process.

I'd like to point out that there is a difference between being "afraid," and making an honest assessment for a business plan. (or any plan)

 

[presence]

How hard can it be to cheaply convert a car to diesel?

The most cost effective solution is going to be a Gen 1 Toyota. A 2LT Diesel front clip can be had for about 3K. A nice condition donor Chassis/cab $2500. Bells and whistles for the Conversion another $1500. Maybe $7000? Bringing an 80's truck back to beautiful; priceless.

You could do a heavy duty driveline that allows you to sell repowered and refurbished trucks

http://dieseltoys.com/

How about importing one of those foreign trucks and driving it here? Can you if you had the FRN's?

Kind of like traveling from North to South Korea; even if you're standing on the border, you have to travel 6000 miles by way of Beijing to get there and its best to keep your mouth shut about your travels once you arrive.

 

[acptulsa]

You said it all right there. The problem is not that people aren't smart enough. The problem is that the smart people are smart enough to know they'll get crushed in the process.

I'd like to point out that there is a difference between being "afraid," and making an honest assessment for a business plan. (or any plan)

If I seemed like I considered such a decision anything but rational, I apologize. I think we could pull it off, but I freely admit we could wind up paying more to lawyers than engineers. Hell, they even did a movie about Preston Tucker just so we'd all get the message loud and clear. This wasn't long after they killed off American Motors and all the other little independents (and damn near took out Chrysler the first time).

No, I'm not saying corporations don't run the country. Far from it. I'm just saying that I think we could sneak some good products over before they realized that we had something competitive, and then we could play the public relations game. If we get that far with it, then this minitruck producer would be profitable, or good for the liberty movement as an object lesson, or both at once (if we play our cards really, really well).

 

[madengr]

I just had to get rid of my TDI wagen this year. Being where I live I need 4wd to get to my place I was having to maintain a VW and a Jeep. The cost of maintaining both vehicles did in the fuel mpg advantage of the tdi. I traded them both in for a subaru wagon. The subaru is not nearly as fun to drive. I did have a few computer glitches with the VW but the service was great. Actually the 6 speed tiptronic transmission was great. You can go to the manual mode and shift gears without pushing in a clutch.

Too bad you can't get a TDI Passat Alltrack in this country.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/passat-alltrack-gp/home

 

[Luciconsort]

last year in my buddies 2500 Chevy DuraMax HD we were driving long dist on 95 not towing anything and getting 27mpg per the on dash display thingy. but he had a little computer you hook up the the truck and he set it for fuel economy and all of a sudden we're getting 42mpg. not sure if the computer is legal, or if it's just full of shit. but it would be nice if thats all you had to do to end around stupid regulations.

 

[presence]

I just had to get rid of my TDI wagen this year. Being where I live I need 4wd to get to my place I was having to maintain a VW and a Jeep.

Quaife LSD
http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qdf16r

 

[klamath]

Too bad you can't get a TDI Passat Alltrack in this country.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/passat-alltrack-gp/home

You and Presence are really trying to make me miserable
Alltrack numbers.
1968cc, 4cyl, 4WD, 168bhp, 258lb ft, 47.9mpg, 155g/km CO2, 0-62 in 8.9secs, 131mph, 1725kg

 

[tod evans]

I think we're looking at two completely different end products?

My thoughts were running along the lines of rebuilt used components such as 3 or even 4 cylinder commercial diesels with completely adjustable fuel delivery coupled to an off the shelf transmission, again used and refurbished...

Sounds like your thoughts are running more along the lines of brand-new off the shelf components assembled into a universal kit that could be geared more toward urban life?

Am I even in the ball park?

I like not turbocharging, but a turbine, because it can burn anything. Turbines have disadvantages as motivation for a motor vehicle, but in an electric hybrid they'd work just fine--you'd never notice those 'disadvantages' if all it had to do was turn a big alternator. But that said, the Onan-type generator package has certain huge advantages for a startup vehicle manufacturer. No development costs, someone else covers the warranty, if you come up with something better it's just a component swap into the new model, all of these are good things. Of course, when having automotive dreams the powerplant often stimulates the creative juices, but in this case a safer route is a better route.

As for hybrid, it really doesn't necessarily require a mass of computerization. If you're in a more relaxed EPA vehicle classification, you could build an entire hybrid with less computerization than one EPA-certified clean gas engine. And there are other advantages to an electric hybrid. People can charge them and use them as electrics, regenerative braking really does add a whole lot of efficiency (you'll notice these hybrids get great mileage, even though their batteries are very, very heavy and make them extra heavy), and the electric drive eliminates the heavy, expensive transmission or transaxle--just use one motor per powered wheel.

With an appealing design and development aimed at American conditions, we really could turn something like this into a hit. We could.

 

[Humanae Libertas]

Don't get me started on CARB. You can blame Ronnie Raygun -- yes Regan, the President and former "conservative" poster boy. He signed CARB back when he was Governor of the state.

Because of CARB, certain vehicles with certain parts that are not CARB approved (which cost money to get approval), such as catalytic converters, maybe not pass SMOG inspection in the state, therefore can't be registered nor driven I don't know if other state's like CA have a bureaucracy such as CARB.

 

[acptulsa]

Am I even in the ball park?

Sort of, though there's no reason for it to be limited to urban duty (except that the state regs I'm out to meet, in some cases, prohibit expressway operation) and I wasn't thinking of kits. But, you know, it's not that hard to convert a conventional vehicle to electric or electric hybrid. So, skirting federal regulations by rebuilding and repowering older vehicles could be done as well. So, the main functional difference between the hybrid system I envision and what you're talking about is that my powerplants are off the shelf new production diesel generators in boxes that can be stuffed anywhere, and you're talking about the old hot rodder trick of inventing special motor mounts.

In fact, Perkins makes three cylinder generators, so my hybrid could use that engine too. I doubt it would need one quite that big, though. It sure wouldn't need a turbocharger. Mechanically, it's an electric with all the torque two or four electric motors can produce (well, actually we wouldn't be using locomotive axle motors, so it would merely have quite enough torque). All the diesel (or turbine, or whatever) needs to do is recharge the batteries some.

Don't get me started on CARB. You can blame Ronnie Raygun -- yes Regan, the President and former "conservative" poster boy. He signed CARB back when he was Governor of the state.

Because of CARB, certain vehicles with certain parts that are not CARB approved (which cost money to get approval), such as catalytic converters, maybe not pass SMOG inspection in the state, therefore can't be registered nor driven I don't know if other state's like CA have a bureaucracy such as CARB.

Don't get you started? You're trying to get me started.

Not Regan. Donnie Regan was Reagan's Chief of Staff or something like that in the White House. And yeah, Reagan was a bizarre governor. Every year through his reign Dodge Polara (which met the long wheelbase requirement) won the Highway Patrol's performance competition for Enforcement Class Units. And Dodge was competitive pricewise, too. But Reagan woke up one day with the notion that all state agencies must buy from more than one vendor, if only occasionally. So, they got some inferior patrol cars from time to time, just to make Reagan happy.

Yes, ever state has some kind of air resources board. Some don't do much but take care of federally required paperwork. Many have smog checks of some kind or another. No other state sells enough cars to dare tell the carmakers of the world they have to meet a tougher standard than the federal standard except New York, and even they either stick to the federal or the California standard. Of course, California sells more cars than many a country.