Whenever I talk to younger people about foreign policy, this is what I've noticed...

[nodeal]

Many of them turn immediately to the issue of Iran. From the perspectives of those young pro-interventionists, this modern-day "threat" from Iran seems to be the bread and butter of the current foreign policy discussion.

They always turn immediately to demonizing Iran's role in the Middle East. Points I often hear are:

-- Iran is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East
-- Iran threatens the global community
-- Iran funds terrorist resistance groups across the Middle East that have killed many Americans
-- Iran exerts its wealth and theocratic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- Iranian funded regimes murder people in other nations, such as Syria

They see Iran as this aggressive force that is plotting to take over the world, and it is our duty to stop it. What are some good points to bring forward to the young people I run into who think with this mentality? What can be said in response to those I encounter who believe these things?

 

[The One]

When I talk to younger people, I notice that their skin is better than mine.

 

[George_K]

Many of them turn immediately to the issue of Iran. From the perspectives of those young pro-interventionists, this modern-day "threat" from Iran seems to be the bread and butter of the current foreign policy discussion.

They always turn immediately to demonizing Iran's role in the Middle East. Points I often hear are:

-- Iran is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East
-- Iran threatens the global community
-- Iran funds terrorist resistance groups across the Middle East that have killed many Americans
-- Iran exerts its wealth and theocratic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- Iranian funded regimes murder people in other nations, such as Syria

They see Iran as this aggressive force that is plotting to take over the world, and it is our duty to stop it. What are some good points to bring forward to the young people I run into who think with this mentality? What can be said in response to those I encounter who believe these things?

I'm from Syria, so I see things a little bit different and dont know if my opinion is of any use for you but for what its worth:

-- Iran is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East

Iran is living in there neighborhood for ages and will continue to do so, they are a natural part of the power structure of the Middle East, no different then the US is a natural part of the power structure of North America.

It is actually clearly the US that is trying hard to reshape the power structure in there favor messing around on the other side of the planet in the Middle East. Attacking countries left and right from Iran, and threatening them with an attack, it is normal to them to try to establish a power structure that is strong and credible, in order to prevent an attack by the West.


-- Iran threatens the global community

Israel and the US are openly talking about an attack on Iran and Syria, which would quickly draw Russian and Chinese interest into the conflict. Setting the stage for a World War 3 scenario. It is the Wests war mongering, and all out quest of conquere that is threatening humanity and the global community.

Iran basically has two choices. Either go the Saddam Hussein / Iraq, Gaddafi / Lybija way,... trying to please the West as much as possible by making concessions over concessions, dismantling and disarming, to the point that they are teethless and get invaded after all.

Or go the other direction (North Koreas foreign policy) and stand strong against the Imperialists. History has shown, the West only invades countries that overly cooperate with the UN and disarm themselfs like Iraq, and leave countries alone that can present a credible defense.

Thats why obtaining nuclear weapon could be the only way for Iran to archieve peace and security. As long as they dont have a weapon that impresses Israel and the US, they will always appear weak and vulnerable. Only the nuclear powers in this world are save.

The Actions of the Western Imperialists are actually encouraging countries like Iran to arm and develope nuclear weapons. As its the only way for them to secure peace in the long run.


-- Iran funds terrorist resistance groups across the Middle East that have killed many Americans

Americans should not have been there to begin with. What would Americans do if Chinese and Russians would be all over the US region enforcing there will on the American people. Wasnt it the American people who among other things used terrorism tactics to get rid of the British Empire. Terrorism is a war tactic to free yourself from the American Empire.


-- Iran exerts its wealth and theocratic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations

Who doesnt?


-- Iranian funded regimes murder people in other nations, such as Syria

If you really want to side with the people of Syria, with the Christians, listen to them. The majority of the people in Syria support Bashar al Assad. We thank Assad for giving us peace and security, freedom of religion, Internet network, and a path to a more free and democratic society, although it is hard to do so if foreign forces create a war-like atmosphere.

There are hundreds of thousands demonstrators for Assad in the cities of Syria, it gets completely blacked out by the Western war machine. The turmoil in Syria is to one part because of foreign operations and support for terrorist from the US and Israel, arming opposition groups and encouraging them to make criminal acts, and because the youth is frustrated, embargo, sanctions, immense economic stress from Europe and the US put on Syria over decades has made the situation dire. Israel has been fighting Syria on many levels including economics for decades. Syrians fear nothing more then a foreign intervention. We dont want to be "shocked and awed" like the mess you created in Iraq. Syria has been fighting Al Kaida terrorists far longer then the US has. Coming from the majority of the Syrian people to America: Stop the covert operations, stop the coups.: Mind your own business.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They repeat the shit their dad and mom tell them because they don't know how to think for themselves yet.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Many of them turn immediately to the issue of Iran. From the perspectives of those young pro-interventionists, this modern-day "threat" from Iran seems to be the bread and butter of the current foreign policy discussion.

They always turn immediately to demonizing Iran's role in the Middle East. Points I often hear are:

-- Iran is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East
-- Iran threatens the global community
-- Iran funds terrorist resistance groups across the Middle East that have killed many Americans
-- Iran exerts its wealth and theocratic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- Iranian funded regimes murder people in other nations, such as Syria

They see Iran as this aggressive force that is plotting to take over the world, and it is our duty to stop it. What are some good points to bring forward to the young people I run into who think with this mentality? What can be said in response to those I encounter who believe these things?

-- USA is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA threatens the global community (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA funds dictatorships across the Middle East that have killed many innocents
-- USA exerts its wealth and militaristic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- USA funded regimes murder people in other nations, including their own nations

/food for thought

 

[silk30]

I'm from Syria, so I see things a little bit different and dont know if my opinion is of any use for you but for what its worth:

-- Iran is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East

Iran is living in there neighborhood for ages and will continue to do so, they are a natural part of the power structure of the Middle East, no different then the US is a natural part of the power structure of North America.

It is actually clearly the US that is trying hard to reshape the power structure in there favor messing around on the other side of the planet in the Middle East. Attacking countries left and right from Iran, and threatening them with an attack, it is normal to them to try to establish a power structure that is strong and credible, in order to prevent an attack by the West.


-- Iran threatens the global community

Israel and the US are openly talking about an attack on Iran and Syria, which would quickly draw Russian and Chinese interest into the conflict. Setting the stage for a World War 3 scenario. It is the Wests war mongering, and all out quest of conquere that is threatening humanity and the global community.

Iran basically has two choices. Either go the Saddam Hussein / Iraq, Gaddafi / Lybija way,... trying to please the West as much as possible by making concessions over concessions, dismantling and disarming, to the point that they are teethless and get invaded after all.

Or go the other direction (North Koreas foreign policy) and stand strong against the Imperialists. History has shown, the West only invades countries that overly cooperate with the UN and disarm themselfs like Iraq, and leave countries alone that can present a credible defense.

Thats why obtaining nuclear weapon could be the only way for Iran to archieve peace and security. As long as they dont have a weapon that impresses Israel and the US, they will always appear weak and vulnerable. Only the nuclear powers in this world are save.

The Actions of the Western Imperialists are actually encouraging countries like Iran to arm and develope nuclear weapons. As its the only way for them to secure peace in the long run.


-- Iran funds terrorist resistance groups across the Middle East that have killed many Americans

Americans should not have been there to begin with. What would Americans do if Chinese and Russians would be all over the US region enforcing there will on the American people. Wasnt it the American people who among other things used terrorism tactics to get rid of the British Empire. Terrorism is a war tactic to free yourself from the American Empire.


-- Iran exerts its wealth and theocratic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations

Who doesnt?


-- Iranian funded regimes murder people in other nations, such as Syria

If you really want to side with the people of Syria, with the Christians, listen to them. The majority of the people in Syria support Bashar al Assad. We thank Assad for giving us peace and security, freedom of religion, Internet network, and a path to a more free and democratic society, although it is hard to do so if foreign forces create a war-like atmosphere.

There are hundreds of thousands demonstrators for Assad in the cities of Syria, it gets completely blacked out by the Western war machine. The turmoil in Syria is to one part because of foreign operations and support for terrorist from the US and Israel, arming opposition groups and encouraging them to make criminal acts, and because the youth is frustrated, embargo, sanctions, immense economic stress from Europe and the US put on Syria over decades has made the situation dire. Israel has been fighting Syria on many levels including economics for decades. Syrians fear nothing more then a foreign intervention. We dont want to be "shocked and awed" like the mess you created in Iraq. Syria has been fighting Al Kaida terrorists far longer then the US has. Coming from the majority of the Syrian people to America: Stop the covert operations, stop the coups.: Mind your own business.

You are preaching to the choir here, with me anyway. I do not want the U.S involved at all in other countries, especially the middle east. Our government's defense of being involved is always two-pronged and RIDICULOUS. 1) The U.S has a moral obligation to spread "democracy and freedom". Something of that nature does not require or deserve our involvement. If the people truly want democracy and freedom, they will get it for themselves.
2) The U.S has to be over there to "protect our interest". In other words, to protect our interests in oil, drugs, and other various resources. Just because we have an interest in these things, and these resources make our lives easier in America does not equate to us having the right to being over there in other countries protecting and taking what we want by force. To me, that is no different than another country stationing bases here in the U.S because it has "interests" in our coal production or our food production that would make life easier for them back at home.
You are absolutely right, we should mind our own damn business. And I am willing to bet quite a bit that most, if not all, of the turmoil and "terrorist" bombings and attacks are U.S backed/instigated. People can BOO the golden rule all they want, but if everyone followed the golden rule, war would begin to become obsolete. And if people really believed in and desired freedom, they would rise up and overthrow these corrupt governments. (And I include the U.S government as needing to be overthrown)

 

[musicmax]

Tell them to enlist so

(a) they're risking their lives in support of the policies they espouse;
(b) they can learn from the troops themselves what idiots they are and that they should support Ron Paul.

 

[George_K]

You are preaching to the choir here, with me anyway. I do not want the U.S involved at all in other countries, especially the middle east. Our government's defense of being involved is always two-pronged and RIDICULOUS. 1) The U.S has a moral obligation to spread "democracy and freedom". Something of that nature does not require or deserve our involvement. If the people truly want democracy and freedom, they will get it for themselves.
2) The U.S has to be over there to "protect our interest". In other words, to protect our interests in oil, drugs, and other various resources. Just because we have an interest in these things, and these resources make our lives easier in America does not equate to us having the right to being over there in other countries protecting and taking what we want by force. To me, that is no different than another country stationing bases here in the U.S because it has "interests" in our coal production or our food production that would make life easier for them back at home.
You are absolutely right, we should mind our own damn business. And I am willing to bet quite a bit that most, if not all, of the turmoil and "terrorist" bombings and attacks are U.S backed/instigated. People can BOO the golden rule all they want, but if everyone followed the golden rule, war would begin to become obsolete. And if people really believed in and desired freedom, they would rise up and overthrow these corrupt governments. (And I include the U.S government as needing to be overthrown)

I agree with you, and there's another thing people dont really understand. That is the great opportunity and great partnership in trade and the benefit to everybody that the US could have with the Arab countries. Instead of bombing, invading, lives lost, sanctions, the Middle East and the US would be much greater partners economically. The Arab countries sell there natural resources and in turn buy American goods.

When I was young, there was not a street in Syria where you did not see American cars, Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, people loved those cars. Incredible reliable, beautiful looking and cheap. Nowadays, you only see cars from East Asia.

At times of great trade and opportunity between the Middle East and the US, the American foreign policy atleast tried to appear neutral and listening to both sides of the Palestinian:Israeli conflict. Nowadays Israeli foreign policy interests have completely taken over American foreign interests.

 

[thoughtomator]

Ask them where they expect Iran to go, and whether it is appropriate that the most populous nation in the Middle East has some influence in the region.

 

[kasjun]

There are hundreds of thousands demonstrators for Assad in the cities of Syria, it gets completely blacked out by the Western war machine. The turmoil in Syria is to one part because of foreign operations and support for terrorist from the US and Israel, arming opposition groups and encouraging them to make criminal acts, and because the youth is frustrated, embargo, sanctions, immense economic stress from Europe and the US put on Syria over decades has made the situation dire. Israel has been fighting Syria on many levels including economics for decades. Syrians fear nothing more then a foreign intervention. We dont want to be "shocked and awed" like the mess you created in Iraq. Syria has been fighting Al Kaida terrorists far longer then the US has. Coming from the majority of the Syrian people to America: Stop the covert operations, stop the coups.: Mind your own business.



I thought this last paragraph was very interesting. I have not seen this in the news at all. It makes you wonder if the media is leading us around like sheep just like they do with the election news.

 

[vita3]

Let 'em know we overthrew Iran's democraticly elected Prime Minster in the early 50's for British Petroleum (BP) & that's the fundamental problem. Every Iranian knows this, 5% of America knows this fact.

Today, Iran is larger & more modern has makes enough of their own weapons to cause us more harm tham 10X Afghan & Iraq put together. So where do they really want to take this thing?

Also, they should be aware of the current winners & losers in Iraq. BP w/ China, now controls the largest oilfield in S. Iraq.

As brave & strong as our soldiers are, the US comes out on the short side of the stick historically in the ME.

There has to be a better way for America.

 

[seraphson]

-- USA is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA threatens the global community (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA funds dictatorships across the Middle East that have killed many innocents
-- USA exerts its wealth and militaristic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- USA funded regimes murder people in other nations, including their own nations

/food for thought

I was going to note the irony in each and every point made but this is more or less sufficient.

 

[osan]

I agree with you, and there's another thing people dont really understand. That is the great opportunity and great partnership in trade and the benefit to everybody that the US could have with the Arab countries. Instead of bombing, invading, lives lost, sanctions, the Middle East and the US would be much greater partners economically. The Arab countries sell there natural resources and in turn buy American goods.

Agreed. The Arab world has more money than China and they are not afraid to spend it. The would be our loyal allies were we to not treat them like shit,

I am not sure what is up with the obsessive compulsive hatred that so many Jews have for Arabs. They are, after all, the same branch of the tree. The hatred cannot be reasonably attributed to the Israel deal because it predates 1947 by several decades and is even evident in popular media such as film and cartoons. It has a feel about it very much like sibling rivalry, only running utterly amok.

When I was young, there was not a street in Syria where you did not see American cars, Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, people loved those cars. Incredible reliable, beautiful looking and cheap. Nowadays, you only see cars from East Asia.

Anyone denying that US foreign policy is one of the roots of the problems under consideration is either an idiot or is selling something. Yes, there is a contingent of fundamentalist lunatics out there, but history clearly indicates that not only was the USA the seed of that movement, our political behavior served only to feed and nurture its growth. WE are the cause of its growth and expanding power and I would assert that there is a very strong likelihood that this is precisely the goal of the innermost circles of power. It only makes sense when one considers a broader agenda of power consolidation.

At times of great trade and opportunity between the Middle East and the US, the American foreign policy atleast tried to appear neutral and listening to both sides of the Palestinian:Israeli conflict. Nowadays Israeli foreign policy interests have completely taken over American foreign interests.

Israel has not been a good ally from the point of view of common knowledge. If one looks at the standard picture history draws, I would question the "ally" label. This raises questions of what latent issues may be at work here. Is there some strategic value that common eyes are not privy to? Is the USA simply being strong-armed by a small but treacherously determined nation whose tentacles and influence reaches deeply into the fabric of American culture and politics? After all, a nation a tad smaller than New Jersey does not acquire several hundreds of nuclear weapons without a huge amount of help, assuming they actually do hold between 180 and 300 warheads.

The world is full of secrecy and deceit, making it almost impossible to know what the real motivations are for national behaviors. Best we look after our own interests and be on the best possible terms with all our neighbors.

 

[George_K]

I thought this last paragraph was very interesting. I have not seen this in the news at all. It makes you wonder if the media is leading us around like sheep just like they do with the election news.

Please read: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30412.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqq-Vp3uSJw&feature=related

Unreported for example in the west was the terrorist attack killing of son of the mufti of Syrian Orthodox Christian Church Syria Ahmad Badr Al-Din Hassoun after the he had refused to act on the side of the foreign opposition.

Also unreported among many other things was the longest flag in the world demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D8AuhMccCE

 

[LibertasPraesidium]

-- USA is trying to reshape power structure in the Middle East (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA threatens the global community (if they don't comply with our wishes)
-- USA funds dictatorships across the Middle East that have killed many innocents
-- USA exerts its wealth and militaristic approach to government on foreign and sovereign nations
-- USA funded regimes murder people in other nations, including their own nations
*-- USA has been doing all of this for 5-6 decades, and shows no sign of slowing down*

Probably the biggest thing I have noticed is that people are blindly believing all of the hype no matter how many substantial articles I throw at them. They are afraid, and I have always tried to argue about peace and prosperity here at home being vastly more important than some war on terror that is doing nothing but acting as a money hole, profitting only those who deal in war, and costing lives by the 100,000s of thousands. Some in this country only look and see american lives lost, when you start showing them the figures for how many people have lost their lives in other countries because of our occupation, they start to listen(or play it off as if all of those who have been killed were terrorists.) Which is simply not true.

The economic side of the argument is as always to do with the inefficiency of our own government, spending is out of control and unless RP gets elected nothing will change. I just wish there were a good way to counter the fear mongering that has developed into hatred. Peace is the only moral way.

 

[Tudo]

YOu might have gotten a different opinion when I was a teenager. Here's how many of us reacted. Guess this has all been substituted for chat nowadays eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deWIwJrT6JE

or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1Q1rR3rZBU

any neo-artists in hollywood asking you to NOT go to the movies ( remember we had to pay to go to a movie then )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkKI1yzyw7c&feature=related

May I suggest that if you want something, whether it's a job or a position or getting Ron Paul elected or whatever, you may have to fight for it. If you're not at least willing to fight for it, chances of you getting it are really small if at all.

I am totally disgusted after seeing what went down in Nevada. Surely our suspicions are confirmed yes? When the tv camera's are rolling, when there's a crowd watching , in a caucus that holds according to the press, the LEAST likely supporters and we get 58% but when the tv is not rolling, when nobody is looking we get 18% ?

I'm almost speechless.

 

[buffed]

Israel and the US are openly talking about an attack on Iran and Syria, which would quickly draw Russian and Chinese interest into the conflict. Setting the stage for a World War 3 scenario.

I don't think the WW3 scenario is a certainty. I think America's competitors just love to see the US continue to dig themselves in deeper, why stop us? Getting in all these wars only weakens the US by ruining the economy, getting further in debt to China, diverting $$ that could otherwise be used to develop our own energy reserves, demoralizing the population with casualties and conflict over our involvement, the list goes on.

Russia and China have this strange habit of actually conducting a foreign policy that benefits their countries. For some bizarre reason they don't feel the over-whelming compulsion to spend Trillions of their own money and get their people killed trying to play world policeman.

 

[moderate libertarian]

Many of them turn immediately to the issue of Iran. From the perspectives of those young pro-interventionists, this modern-day "threat" from Iran seems to be the bread and butter of the current foreign policy discussion.

Are these young people you're talking American or they are Israeli citizens or religiously trained Evangelical Christians?

Iran poses as much threat to US as Iraq did in 2003 before Iraq blunder.

 

[bolil]

Its nice taking the "popular" line. The magazines, the talking heads, etc all give you your line of argument per-tailored on a platter of BS. Is it fallacious? Sure, but to a generation that thinks a fallacy is oral sex what good does it do pointing them out.

 

[furface]

It's not just young people. Only 11% of Americans think that Iran will not develop nuclear weapons. I suppose the wording of the question/statement is a little weird. That's part of the propaganda, wording surveys to make them look like support or else embed statements. I personally feel that Iran might in the future develop nuclear weapons, but they aren't doing it now.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...srael_attacks_iran_48_want_u_s_to_help_israel

I was talking to somebody over the weekend, and he took it for granted that Iran was developing nukes. When I asked him why he thought so, he couldn't answer. When I told him the whole story about how Iran was enriching at 20% only for medical isotopes, he seemed even more surprised.