When They Come For Your Guns . . . You Will Turn Them Over

[seraphson]

Here's an interesting article I thought would be very good to reflect upon for awhile. I'll post my thoughts below.

When They Come For Your Guns . . . You Will Turn Them Over

by Jim Karger


"When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands," is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. "You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands," which I often follow with the question, "And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?"

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and one of these rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition "for the common good," it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don't seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didn't even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

"...for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of “homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.” Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being “necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities” under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA." (Emphasis supplied.)

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

That is your choice . . . for the moment.

First off I must confess that I've ran this scenario through my head before and I'm glad to see somebody actually write up on it. It's very easy to be an armchair warrior but if we thrust ourselves from our comfy chairs at our well organized computer desks' into such a situation things get pretty "real". I would kindly remind said Posse Comitatus violators of their Oath of Enlistment and try to use reason. Beyond that though assuming they don't accept reason and honor we reach "The Choice".

Choice A. Do we play out a nightmare scenario where we actually witness an American affirmed oath taking soldier murdering other American citizens merely because said citizens chose to defend their Second Amendment rights? As unreal as that sounds I believe such a paramount example of treason may very well happen. The author closes their statement in such a scenario with "you choose to die that day -- for nothing." Well, to examine this view point, which I somewhat disagree with, let's view the alternative.

Choice B. Give up your weapons and live another day never dare expecting to see said weapon again or any compensation for the money you essentially threw away by handing it over to the traitor, errh, American soldier. But here comes something worse. What. Is. Next? What does tomorrow hold now that you've let yet another right evaporate due to your dictator's, ahem, presidents decision? Going by past governments' track records and our not so long history and the trends that followed up to this precipice I really hope the author doesn't think tomorrow, or even the following decade for that matter will embrace freedom, liberty, peace, or prosperity.

I personally would rather choose death any day over Room 101 (yes, perhaps I'm a being a bit farfetched but then again let's step back and take a panoramic view of this very conversation, we've come this far so who's not to say we'll inevitable lead to an Orwellian dystopia?)

In addition I think we should recall and think about the many lives of the men, women, and children that were unexpectedly cut short at a shot for founding our Republic in the hopes that future generations may bear the fruit of freedom and liberty at their expense. Perhaps us negotiating at our doorsteps to stand by our Constitution and Second Amendment rights would be our rightful "dues" owed in honor of our founders and future generations?

What are your thoughts in regards to this?

 

[pcosmar]

What are your thoughts in regards to this?

I am already disarmed by law.. I have nothing for them to come for.
In fact,, it was my arrest and persecution for a gun that I did not own that got me involved here.

IF.. If and when I were to ever step into active resistance (as opposed to passive resistance), I would take arms from that bastards and use them. I may well end up dead in that event,, or perhaps I will prevail. in which case it would be their bodies lying on a pool of their own blood while I strip their corpse of anything of value.

I can only hope I am not alone in this mindset when the time comes.

 

[Acala]

The local police force will turn tail and run when confronted with even a small band of ready and willing riflemen. Not because they are cowards but because they are not trained for it, new military tools not withstanding. They virtually NEVER face aimed rifle fire. They concern me not at all if things really get going.

The armed forces, on the other hand, is a different story all together. A full scale deployment of the US armed forces against the people would be a blood bath indeed. However, I think it is likely that there would be mass desertion with MANY soldiers standing by the people. Hard to say how that would play out.

Will a substantial number of the "cold dead hands" boys submit when the going gets rough? Sure. But it would only take a few percent of America's gun owners resisting to make it a for real civil war.

All of that having been said, I am hoping for a Soviet style collapse where the union breaks up with nary a shot being fired. And the fact that the people are well-armed makes that MORE likely in the USA.

 

[oyarde]

No , sorry , keeping ALL of mine.

 

[JK/SEA]

There isn't enough military or Law Enforcement to carry off a 'surprise' gun confiscation at the same time from coast to coast. There will be a massive amount of folks 'digging in' at the first news of anything going down. Unless of course they do some kind of gassing first.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

At times like these I am reminded of Solzhenitsyn, Samuel Adams, and William Wallace. I'd rather be dead fighting as a free man than alive as a slave.

 

[Kotin]

If someone wishes to disarm you, they are essentially trying to kill you(especially a government)


simple as that.

 

[Lucille]

We had this conversation. We decided we'd rather be dead, even if we had some stashed away. It's the principle of the thing.

"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
--General John Stark

Besides, if it gets to the point they're disarming the American people, can you imagine the tyrannical hell that would follow?

ETA: That is not to say we'd sit around and wait for it. At that point, it would be a civil war, and we'd join the fight.

 

[Origanalist]

"When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands," is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

Wait a minute, so it's only neo-con's that feel this way? Ha!

 

[puppetmaster]

strength in numbers folks, keep buying and we will band together when the time comes

 

[erowe1]

The author's use of the label "neo-con" is strange.

 

[AuH20]

Who wrote this trash?? Marines bleed just like you and I. This sounds like some deranged progressive or some "cut and run" puritarian.

 

[AuH20]

I found the author. Jim Karger. What a joke. The big bad military. I'm scared to death. Men with nothing to lose are more dangerous than any glorified mercs with stripes on their arms.

http://www.crediblyconnect.com/about-jim-karger-philosophy.php

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

Of interest:
The Battle of Athens
http://constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm


It might be possible that a well-played skirmish or two could turn the tide of public opinion back in favor of the pro-second amendment side enough to prevent any further advances by the tyrants.

 

[youngbuck]

The US can't be disarmed. There are too many firearms in circulation, and millions are added each year.

Disarmament would be somewhat successful if nobody resisted, and if they did resist, only did so from their homes. I often hear people defeatingly state that you couldn't effectively resist when your house is surrounded by a bunch of gov't goons. Well, duh. It's quite difficult to mount any type of effective strike, defensive let alone offensive, while under siege. That's why, in the event of confiscation, you take the fight to them. Set up ambushes, coordinate offensive missions, supply line attacks, assassinations... Don't corner yourself and helplessly wait for them to bring a coordinated firestorm to you.

This is all hypothetical, of course.

 

[AuH20]

The US can't be disarmed. There are too many firearms in circulation, and millions are added each year.

Disarmament would be somewhat successful if nobody resisted, and if they did resist, only did so from their homes. I often hear people defeatingly state that you couldn't effectively resist when your house is surrounded by a bunch of gov't goons. Well, duh. It's quite difficult to mount any type of effective strike, defensive let alone offensive, while under siege. That's why, in the event of confiscation, you take the fight to them. Set up ambushes, coordinate offensive missions, supply line attacks, assassinations... Don't corner yourself and helplessly wait for them to bring a coordinated firestorm to you.

This is all hypothetical, of course.

Set up booby traps. Blow up gas lines if you're pinned down. Sure you're not getting out alive but you make certain that the invaders are faced with considerable risk. After a handful of these type of harrowing encounters, the military will be forced to alter it's strategy. I think what you would want is a visible escalation that the media would not be able to obfuscate. Then it would be game on.

 

[AuH20]

original article:

http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog...me-for-your-guns-you-will-turn-them-over.html

 

[AuH20]

Great response:

TWO Words: Vietnam, and Afghanistan.

A bunch of rice farmers beat, yes BEAT the US Military Industrial Complex; the MIC may have 'won' their prolonging of the war profiteering, but they absolutely LOST the war: got their asses kicked by a bunch of rice farmers in pajamas with nothing more than an emphatic will to live/survive, be free, protect their loved ones, and their own lands. Oh, and of course, with a little aid: a bunch of Soviet drop-shipped AK47's.

Now, an astute geopolitical observer may correctly posit that perhaps MIC's sole concern was war-profiteering, and mattered not which side 'won,' as the banksters actively funded both (as they've always been known to do) US and the Soviets and the Vietnamese, by proxy. But, that does not change the fact that militarily, and politically, and morally-speaking (if that ever mattered to tyrants), they absolutely, without a doubt: LOST. Period.

But we have more M16/M4/AR15/M249/M60/M2/M1/M14 and AK47/AKM/AK74/RPK/PKM/SVD variants in both semi and military surplus/NFA-transferable Full-Auto/Select-Fire guns in private hands in this country than both sides of Vietnam combined, right now, today in America.

In fact, the Mil.Ind.Complex, have not won a SINGLE war, since WWII. PERIOD. They should really get off their high horses.


If there's one constant in history, it's the utter self-destructive hubris of the tyrants, and that they're ALWAYS beaten by 'mere peons,' eventually.

ALWAYS.

Seems like human history is just one long continuous cycle of struggle between the 'peons' vs. how long it takes before the more 'sensible' Ruling Class who have healthy fear of the 'peons' lose their control over their spoiled degenerate progeny, as they go F8ck up their own temporary sweet ride and all they've built, and arrogantly delude that 'this time we CAN crush those little peon buggers'... until they realize, 'Oh shit, here come the guillotines, again!'

LOL

And, slightly over a century later, apparently the progeny of the Ruling Class forget their own history, with the equal level of delusional arrogance they're currently employing against Afghanistan: 'This time, we will finally succeed in conquering Afghanistan!'

Um, NOT!

lol.

They've ALWAYS lost on foreign soils. And, they are currently losing on foreign soilS, again, even as we speak.

Seriously, not just Vietnam, but does Afghanistan ring a bell?

They're deploying far more military gear against a drastically far less armed populace than us, in Afghanistan. Yet, they're still getting their asses kicked, and will NEVER win in Afghanistan.

And, they have the audacity to delude that they can honestly murder into submission those who pay for their own toys? You know, an armed American populace with over 300~500 MILLION guns (NO gunowner I know only owns 'just' one gun) in private hands, who have far more to lose, even on a shallow materialistic level, than a Vietnamese rice farmer with a field and a hut ever had?

Dream on.

The morale of the troops are at the lowest that's ever been; their bodies and psyches are taxed to the limit.

Do they honestly believe that they can send them on one more suicide mission, to be told to arrest, murder and destroy their own families' neighbors and their properties?

Seriously? The Ruling Class actually delude that they're gonna 'win,' within CONUS, with 300~500MILLION+ guns in private hands in America?

LOLOLOLOL

The ONLY reason why we don't have the level of violent riots in America to the extent they had in Greece, is PRECISELY BECAUSE America has such a heavily armed populace.

NO truly conscious gunowner who puts in the time and their hard earned wealth into building their private armory has ANY wish to escalate into violence, or wish for the collapse of society as we know it.

That, is why American street protests are mostly devoid of sizable numbers (ie, 100,000+) of gunowners. Because NO gunowner wants to give govt ANY excuses. Because everyone knows once 'that' line is crossed, there is no going back.

That said, they better believe that once military trucks start rolling in, mass gun confiscations, NDAA kidnappings commence in earnest, and who knows: drones' Hellfire missiles dropping on the populace, even if they do stealth pocket-snatches/'dissident kidnappings' at 4am all across the country, once the word spreads and cannot be denied, it's all over... for them.

And, when a critical mass of the some 150~220 MILLION gunowners in America lose their faith in govt? ALL bets are off.

No offense, but this is WHY the 'well off,' even among my own fellow libertarians, who may have started out hungry, and often destitute, who were driven to succeed at all costs, once attained material comfort, often forgot their own hard-fought life lessons, that they're not immune to the same arrogance and/or irreverence of our statist enemies: they dismiss the power of human hope, and the will to survive, too easily.

Also, that is just one more reason why the extremely wealthy NEVER, if ever, fight wars, of real necessity.

I have no such illusions as Mr. Karger, the contributing writer to Jeff Berwick's blog, has.

History teaches us otherwise.

Those who delude it's "impossible" to take on the massive military might, are utterly clueless of the human will to be free; the writer is kidding himself if he honestly thinks that people are simply gonna roll over, when they start having their own loved ones kidnapped, rumors of their neighbors being snatched up in the middle of the night, or seeing dead bodies of their loved ones and their neighbors start piling up.

Also, that assumes that the MIC corporatist-hijacked govt's 2am snatch and grab raids against the 'undesirables, troublemakers, dissidents, and political activists' will always go well.

Which is laughable, considering their level of 'success' in raiding the wrong homes. Frankly, SWAT teams across America probably killed annually more innocent dogs of the wrong address they raided, than they murdered the real 'bad guys,' combined.

They also assume that the military's will and their resources are infinite. They're not. EVERYONE knows this.

With all this talk of debt and bankruptcy, and the coming currency collapse, how can ANY 'libertarian' ignore the reality of limited nature of 'govt's resources?'

Also, frankly, purely by the size of the population and market for guns alone, there are FAR more physical/absolute number of capable shooters within the general populace, than perhaps the 2+ Million-ish military and police, combined.

Besides, the writer also suffers from years of MSM propaganda that made the military and police into some rare genetic superhero specimen.

They're not. They're only human.

Ah... only if the general populace actually knew...

But more alarmingly, why does a 'libertarian' writer not realize that the military training, except for SPECOPS units, are trained to be a common denominator. It's govt, remember??

Moi? Not worried: there are about 500,000~a million recently retired GOOD military veterans and GOOD retired cops, along with millions more from the feistier generation who don't take sh*t from anyone, who are utterly aware of what's going on, KNOW who really 'runs' things, who know a thing or two about asymmetrical warfare, like the Vietnamese did.

The only difference is, the Vietnamese sovereigns had maybe one or two generations of those who knew 'how-to-fight against Western military powers, asymmetrically.' If not, simply figuring out as they went along, altogether. But, the American gunowners now have the benefit of history, and multiple generations of conflicts in which AW tactics were/are studied, practiced and tuned to a fine art.

In fact, I'll call the likes of Mr. Karger what they really are: limousine libertarians, just like their 'conservative' and liberal counterparts.

But, none of this matters. Those who won't fight, will never fight. Those who value life, their loved ones, their freedoms, and their property, WILL ALWAYS fight.

That, has never ever changed throughout history.

It's good that these names are getting out there, now.

Then again, it's not like true libertarians ever really expect to get help; when one's on the right path, kindred spirits will reveal themselves, and join, spontaneously, just like how EVERYONE from ridiculously disparate professional backgrounds and interests coalesced around the R3VOLution: a spontaneous order. A concept libertarians SHOULD be familiar with, all too well.

And, frankly, there are far more armed paleoconservatives/Christian-Patriot Movement/Militia/libertarians/minarchists/ancaps/voluntaryists, and even some liberals AND a few neoCons who respect the Vietnamese example, than not.

But frankly, as stated before, none of this matters. For now it's all talk. People do surprisingly right things, when they cannot deny that their own lives, and those of their loved ones are under severe, irrevocable threat.

Like previous times in human history: the same factions will form, the same factions will resist, the same factions will be reluctant, the same cowards will re-emerge only after the smoke has cleared, only to rewrite their own history as heroes, and banksters will seek to control all sides.

Humans, so what else is new?

PS: To all you busy-bodied govt critters who may be lurking, don't bother trying to twist sh*t around: NONE of this is advocating violence, NOR condoning such.

It is merely a hypothetical third person postulation of what MAY happen based on simply knowing about what happened previously in human history, and HOW some segment of the population MAY respond. This is only a PEACEFUL intellectual exercise.

But, if you are reading, you should know that you're on the wrong side of history. If you had any conscience, you'd seek another line of work, because you're simply contributing to evil. And if you believe in Karma, it does not look good. So reconsider. Save your souls.

 

[Original_Intent]

Karger sounds like a tool trying to condition you that you must comply.

I am not certain that I see myself ever in an armed standoff protecting my 2nd amendment rights. I think it would be much more guerilla warfare, and a few million pissed off gun owners could make Afghanistan seem like a picnic.

 

[AuH20]

Karger sounds like a tool trying to condition you that you must comply.

I am not certain that I see myself ever in an armed standoff protecting my 2nd amendment rights. I think it would be much more guerilla warfare, and a few million pissed off gun owners could make Afghanistan seem like a picnic.

He's a real coward freaking out about armored personnel carriers. What a loser. I won't lie that I'd start freaking out if they broke out the Apache attack copters, but that would be indicative that we had already won.