When Discussing Capitalism with people, they bring up walmart as a flaw

[micahnelson]

Well, then. Start you own "consumer friendly" Wal-Mart paying your workers $20/hour, selling Made in America (by illegal immigrants) goods, and gift wrap every item at the checkout counter. Oh, and don't make a profit becuase then you are a capitalist pig.

So you would rather have them buying and shopping at more expensive place?

Cool down buddy. I stopped being anti-walmart when I learned about the currency. They are just reacting to economic policy as it is. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I started shopping there when food prices went up.

Just because the service is bad doesn't mean it is a bad business or shouldn't exist. It just means they survive for other reasons- in their case efficient importing of large amounts of products from China and leveraging their size.

If they were to lose the advantage of importing, they aren't going to stay around long because low prices is the only reason someone would go to walmart.

Ever shopped at a price rite? I can fill a grocery cart with good food and produce there for under 80 dollars- but its like the cantinia in starwars. As a consumer, I like having the options of service/price/selection etc.

 

[angelatc]

Will you please read all of the posts around yours and get a friggin clue.

We all understand the benefits of free-markets, but as you can see this is not a free-market issue. You are essentially promoting fascism rather than free-markets. The people who really believe in free-markets know that Walmart is evil, and it's not about paying their employees higher wages, it is about depressing wages in the other sectors of our economy such as manufacturing. Govt. intervention is the reason for this, not free markets.

Oh, and Walmart is not the cause of these problems, they are the result.

I believe in free markets, and I do not think Wal-mart is evil.


I have story before. At one point we decided to try to develop and market a product. Wal-Mart is the only major chain that would have enabled us to do that because they don't charge slotting fees and their buyers aren't on the take.

Even the smaller stores didn't waive the slotting fees, and they didn't want to be bothered with out product. They wanted us to go to a broker.

Try to get in to see a buyer at Target, and then try to get in to see a buyer at Wal-Mart. I can promise you that Wal-Mart is far more friendly to the small independent manufacturer than any other major chain.

 

[danberkeley]

We all understand the benefits of free-markets, but as you can see this is not a free-market issue. You are essentially promoting fascism rather than free-markets. The people who really believe in free-markets know that Walmart is evil, and it's not about paying their employees higher wages, it is about depressing wages in the other sectors of our economy such as manufacturing. Govt. intervention is the reason for this, not free markets.

So what are you complaining about? Wal-Mart has a fiduciary duty (whether in a free market or not) to maximize its profit. Why should it not take advantage of government policies?


EDITED: for grammar andspelling.

 

[angelatc]

If they were to lose the advantage of importing, they aren't going to stay around long because low prices is the only reason someone would go to walmart.

Doesn't matter. If all the chains stopped buying inventory from China, Wal-Mart still blow them away in the sheer efficiency of their distribution. So Wal-Mart would still be cheaper.

If you're saying that only Wal-mart should lose the advantage of importing, then that wouldn't really be a free market, would it?

 

[Kludge]

Walmart is the essence of what is destroying our country. There is nothing good about Walmart. The "wealth" you speak of is entirely fake because we are moving it over to China instead of to the people who actually live here.. we are taking on more debt as consumers to pay for things like housing we can't afford so we can use our measly incomes to buy cheap things at walmart..

Solution = Eliminate the minimum wage, eliminate regulation, eliminate the inflation tax, and eliminate the other confiscatory corporate taxes.

Gov't created the trade deficit and people seem to think calling on the government to impose restrictive tariffs is going to work.


Edit: Forgot corporate welfare, which also needs to be eliminated

 

[micahnelson]

So you tell me - what other store has better service? And what, exactly, do you look for in a shopping experience?

I'm not sure where you live (Youre relieved, I'm sure, lol). I have heard the Walmart stores in the south and Midwest are better than the New England stores. The ones here are wretched- but I have had decent experiences in Virginia and North Carolina.

We have some community shops that have all sorts of services that walmart doesn't offer. You pay more for them, of course, but its a balance. Thats whats nice about free markets, variety and freedom of choice for the consumer.

Now, obviously the inflation tax theft has reduced the choices to walmart or dollar tree for many people. This isn't the fault of these retailers- they just happen to cater to the lower middle class and poor clientele.

Government deficit spending and the Reserve has increased Walmart's target market. I don't think they would be as popular if people had more money.

 

[angelatc]

Wal-Mart is well-known for thriving on corporate welfare from governments of all kinds.

All the big corporations get corporate welfare though. There's absolutely no point in singling out Wal-mart.

 

[micahnelson]

Doesn't matter. If all the chains stopped buying inventory from China, Wal-Mart still blow them away in the sheer efficiency of their distribution. So Wal-Mart would still be cheaper.

If you're saying that only Wal-mart should lose the advantage of importing, then that wouldn't really be a free market, would it?

I'm not so sure about that, Walmart beats the competition in securing goods across the pacific ocean. If everything is done within our borders, it changes everything.

I don't believe Walmart should be penalized, they are doing business and have probably fed more poor people than any welfare program ever could. I do wish Americans were wealthy enough not to be forced into it.

Watch TV Shows from the 50s and 60s. See what going to the market was like for them back then. Better quality goods, personalized service. We have lost so much through inflation that Walmart is one of the only options we have left. Again, thats not Walmart's fault- thats the fault of our debt and inability to reign in the Federal Government's spending.

Maybe walmart would adjust, but thats up to them. Free market, doncha know.

 

[danberkeley]

Cool down buddy. I stopped being anti-walmart when I learned about the currency. They are just reacting to economic policy as it is. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I started shopping there when food prices went up.

Hey, buddy. How was I hating on the player?

Just because the service is bad doesn't mean it is a bad business or shouldn't exist. It just means they survive for other reasons- in their case efficient importing of large amounts of products from China and leveraging their size.

Nice 180.

Wal-mart is a flaw of capitalism. All big corporations are flaws of capitalism. To the vast majority of the public, capitalism is what we have today, which is evil. Capitalism as defined by Rothbard and such is not what we have today. When I hear libertarians use the word capitalism, and then defend big corporations as if they are natural products of a free market, I cringe.

That's because it is ASSUMED that Wal-Mart does not operate in a "free market". None of us have said that Wal-Mart is as big as it is because of the free market.

In a voluntary (free-market) society, Walmarts would not exist (and we'd be much better off economically, and morally, for it).

There is no way to know if a Wal-Mart would exist or not in a free market.

 

[angelatc]

\

Government deficit spending and the Reserve has increased Walmart's target market. I don't think they would be as popular if people had more money.

Then you are totally underestimating Wal-mart. They are far more effective at knowing their customers and targeting their market than any other retailer. My husband worked for an upscale retailer, and I can absolutely tell you that Wal-Mart was competition for them, because Wal-Mart looked at their business model, cherry picked the parts that worked, and started offering organic food in their stores.

 

[graddium]

There is no way to know if a Wal-Mart would exist or not in a free market.

How's that? Big corporations suffer from the same socialist economic calculation problem a government does. They are terribly inefficient. The only reason competition hasn't pushed them out is because state violence keeps them in power.

If you take away the violence (ie, have a free market), we know they would be out competed, in the same way we know a free society will out compete a communist society.

 

[angelatc]

Watch TV Shows from the 50s and 60s. See what going to the market was like for them back then. Better quality goods, personalized service. We have lost so much through inflation that Walmart is one of the only options we have left. Again, thats not Walmart's fault- thats the fault of our debt and inability to reign in the Federal Government's spending.

Maybe walmart would adjust, but thats up to them. Free market, doncha know.

Wal-Mart made its money in small town America, where big chains didn't want to even bother. They brought in quality and choice to people that didn't have any such thing.

As somebody with very strong ties to the retail world, I can absolutely assure you that Wal-Marts appeal is not only about low prices. I can also assure you that they are very selective about quality of the food they carry.

I've seen too many Mercedes parked in the lot to believe for a second that people are "forced" to shop there.

 

[Contumacious]

He then brought up wal-mart, and why they pay their employees such a ridiculously low wage.

1- Tell him to buy Lynn Anderson's CD , Rose Garden

2- If an employee does not want to work for WalMart he can go to Target, KMart or Yale and learn a marketable skill.

 

[micahnelson]

Nice 180.

I never said walmart was a bad company. I never said they were evil. What I said was they trade service for prices. I said they were the best choice for low price shoppers. You're looking for charlie where he isn't.

 

[graddium]

If an employee does not want to work for WalMart he can go to Target, KMart or Yale and learn a marketable skill.

Sounds an awful lot like, "If you don't like the US, you can leave and go to Japan, China or Mexico..."

The system is corrupt, and I'm violently kept from opting out or creating my own system.

 

[danberkeley]

How's that? Big corporations suffer from the same socialist economic calculation problem a government does. They are terribly inefficient. The only reason competition hasn't pushed them out is because state violence keeps them in power.

If you take away the violence (ie, have a free market), we know they would be out competed, in the same way we know a free society will out compete a communist society.

Who would out-compete them? Give me a name since you are able to predict who would and who wouldn't survive in a free market.

 

[Contumacious]

Sounds an awful lot like, "If you don't like the US, you can leave and go to Japan, China or Mexico..."

Humans are not plants hence they are free to move any location that is advantageous to them.

 

[Mini-Me]

Humans are not plants hence they are free to move any location that is advantageous to them.

...and in terms of degree, it's certainly easier to change jobs than change countries (because of everything else you're giving up, like family and friends). That said, competition between governments was one of the biggest reasons we used to have sovereign states...if we still had them, people would be more easily able to vote with their feet. :-/

 

[MsDoodahs]

they just happen to cater to the lower middle class and poor clientele.

 

[micahnelson]

What? They don't?

Last time I went there was no valet parking, no luxury items, and there were 5 people waiting in line at each register.