What's wrong with a lot of the population and the war?

Warrior_of_Freedom

Warrior_of_Freedom

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Joined
Jan 9, 2008
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8,454
A million people sign to impeach bush, people protest against the war, almost 25% war approval, and people vote for 100 year war McCain! Am I in an idiocracy?
 
Warrior_of_Freedom said:
A million people sign to impeach bush, people protest against the war, almost 25% war approval, and people vote for 100 year war McCain! Am I in an idiocracy?
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They did a study in New Hampshire and 90% of McCain voters thought he was totally against the war.

The problem is, #1- people don't pay attention.. And 2- People are misinformed.

Maybe wee can have a #3- people are stupid
 
There should be a skill testing question (or set of questions) you have to pass before voting. If you are unable to answer the majority of them correctly you can not vote.

But.... I would expect in America the questions would be similar to "Is the sky blue?" and the voters would have their way anyway.
 
InLoveWithRon said:
They did a study in New Hampshire and 90% of McCain voters thought he was totally against the war.
Click to expand...
Do you know who "they" are? Do you have a link?

It's been awhile since I studied history, so bear with me :)
Just tossing out ideas I will personally have to rethink:

Maybe that's why landowners got a bigger vote than others? If you owned land you were more likely to know the issues and who supported your issues.

Maybe the Founders were right when they set up the Electoral College?
Maybe that's why in some states they have the convoluted delegate caucus system?

Maybe true democracy is a dumb idea?
Oops, I said that wrong, of course true democracy is bad.
Better stated...
Maybe democratically elected representation is a dumb idea?

Maybe our best hope is to carry on with the Ron Paul message at the local level.
True grass roots efforts can change things from the bottom up.
We need to continually talk up the issues, elect good mayors, state congressmen, governors, etc.

Unfortunately the whole election process is in disarray.
We need informed citizens and the media does little else than push their own agendas.
Where is the accountability of politicians and msm?
How can we fix the problems?

Right now, the best thing we can do is campaign for Ron Paul.
But we need to start looking down the road, because we are only rounding the first corner of this race. We must continue on, spreading the message and affecting all levels of government with it.
 
WizarDave said:
Do you know who "they" are? Do you have a link?

It's been awhile since I studied history, so bear with me :)
Just tossing out ideas I will personally have to rethink:

Maybe that's why landowners got a bigger vote than others? If you owned land you were more likely to know the issues and who supported your issues.

Maybe the Founders were right when they set up the Electoral College?
Maybe that's why in some states they have the convoluted delegate caucus system?

Maybe true democracy is a dumb idea?
Oops, I said that wrong, of course true democracy is bad.
Better stated...
Maybe democratically elected representation is a dumb idea?

Maybe our best hope is to carry on with the Ron Paul message at the local level.
True grass roots efforts can change things from the bottom up.
We need to continually talk up the issues, elect good mayors, state congressmen, governors, etc.

Unfortunately the whole election process is in disarray.
We need informed citizens and the media does little else than push their own agendas.
Where is the accountability of politicians and msm?
How can we fix the problems?

Right now, the best thing we can do is campaign for Ron Paul.
But we need to start looking down the road, because we are only rounding the first corner of this race. We must continue on, spreading the message and affecting all levels of government with it.
Click to expand...


Your thoughts on restricting voting rights to certain individuals would scare the hell out of alot of people and anger even more..........but me thinks you make a good point, sir. Just because some people would be offended if told that they're too damn stupid to have the right to vote doesn't make it any less true.
 
WilliamC said:
No one who doesn't pay income taxes should be allowed to vote.
Click to expand...

No. Wait a minute.
NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYING INCOME TAX.

Every citizen should have a Right to vote.
I think it is the responsibility of citizens to learn and know the issues.
True some are irresponsible, and few vote.
I have to blame the media for the false and misleading information.
If the people actually had the information to make an informed vote, we would see far different results.
 
Because people can feel good about themselves by voting for McCain, as if it is their patriotic duty. It's the least they can do, because they sure as hell won't sign up for the war. If there is ever a draft, then finally we will see a revolt. But for now, it's all about feeling red white and blue.

Which is why for the life of me I don't get why the RP campaign doesn't play up his military service and why he doesn't make more of it in the debates. I realize he is humble and not a braggart in that way, but I'd be proud as hell if I served as a flight surgeon. And it will get a lot of sympathy and votes.
 
Caravello said:
Because people can feel good about themselves by voting for McCain, as if it is their patriotic duty. It's the least they can do, because they sure as hell won't sign up for the war. If there is ever a draft, then finally we will see a revolt. But for now, it's all about feeling red white and blue.

Which is why for the life of me I don't get why the RP campaign doesn't play up his military service and why he doesn't make more of it in the debates. I realize he is humble and not a braggart in that way, but I'd be proud as hell if I served as a flight surgeon. And it will get a lot of sympathy and votes.
Click to expand...

IMO, there would be a basic logical disconnect between trumpeting one's military service and being anti-foreign war as Ron Paul is. A disconnect that his opponents would be sure to exploit. No, I think Ron Paul would be buying trouble with little possibility of positive return if he crisped up his military service in his stump speeches.
 
pcosmar said:
No. Wait a minute.
NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYING INCOME TAX.

Every citizen should have a Right to vote.
I think it is the responsibility of citizens to learn and know the issues.
True some are irresponsible, and few vote.
I have to blame the media for the false and misleading information.
If the people actually had the information to make an informed vote, we would see far different results.
Click to expand...

Of course there should be no income tax, but currently there is. And as long as there is it just makes sense that only those individuals who pay income tax should be allowed to vote. If you aren't contributing your fair share to paying for the policies and programs that the politicians put in place then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Otherwise you get the situation we have today where millions of freeloaders simply vote for the politician who promises them the most handouts.

Now if the income tax were ever eliminated there could be other ways to restrict the vote to only those who "deserve" it. I sorta like Robert Heinlein's idea that the electorate should be composed solely of those who have volunteered to serve their country, either through military or civil service.

Universal suffrage just leads to mass plunder of the productive citizens by the parasites and eventually to universal suffering.
 
WilliamC said:
Of course there should be no income tax, but currently there is. And as long as there is it just makes sense that only those individuals who pay income tax should be allowed to vote. If you aren't contributing your fair share to paying for the policies and programs that the politicians put in place then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Otherwise you get the situation we have today where millions of freeloaders simply vote for the politician who promises them the most handouts.

Now if the income tax were ever eliminated there could be other ways to restrict the vote to only those who "deserve" it. I sorta like Robert Heinlein's idea that the electorate should be composed solely of those who have volunteered to serve their country, either through military or civil service.

Universal suffrage just leads to mass plunder of the productive citizens by the parasites and eventually to universal suffering.
Click to expand...

Agreed, currently there is an income tax. It's even constitutional, though malapplied by the IRS and DOJ.

However, are YOU one of the 4 Classes of Persons that the income tax applies too?

WHAT, exactly, is the proper amount of "your fair share" of taxes to pay?

WHO determines what "your fair share" amount is?

WHERE did you get this socialist idea of "fair share"?

WHICH Founders of America ever talked about this concept of "fair share"?

It appears to me you're a victim of the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education". These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share".

WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or even the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim ...

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

This concept is pure socialism.

Karl Marx, in creating the Communist Manifesto, designed ten planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.

Questions each individual must ask is: "Are YOU a communist?" "Are you practicing communism?"

Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy...

http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

- SL

"By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." - Ron Paul, Speech to House of Representatives, November 29, 2001

Save America's ROOTS. Read this book online for free:

The American Ideal of 1776:
The Twelve Basic American Principles

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal
 
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It appears to me it's not so much who and how a person votes but HOW the vote is counted or IF it's even counted. This is where the real trouble is "my friends".
 
Chabsfromcanada said:
There should be a skill testing question (or set of questions) you have to pass before voting. If you are unable to answer the majority of them correctly you can not vote.

But.... I would expect in America the questions would be similar to "Is the sky blue?" and the voters would have their way anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree.

If you can't find America on a world map, you have no business participating in the democratic process.

If you can't spell the word "democracy", you have no business participating in the process.

Those two questions alone would probably eliminate 40% of eligible voters.
 
Okay, so if there's a test to vote, who writes the test? The Bush Administration? The Clinton Administration? Who writes the test?
 
SeekLiberty said:
Agreed, currently there is an income tax. It's even constitutional, though malapplied by the IRS and DOJ.

However, are YOU one of the 4 Classes of Persons that the income tax applies too?

WHAT, exactly, is the proper amount of "your fair share" of taxes to pay?

WHO determines what "your fair share" amount is?

WHERE did you get this socialist idea of "fair share"?

WHICH Founders of America ever talked about this concept of "fair share"?

It appears to me you're a victim of the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education". These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share".

WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or even the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim ...

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

This concept is pure socialism.

Karl Marx, in creating the Communist Manifesto, designed ten planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.

Questions each individual must ask is: "Are YOU a communist?" "Are you practicing communism?"

Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy...

http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

- SL

"By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." - Ron Paul, Speech to House of Representatives, November 29, 2001

Save America's ROOTS. Read this book online for free:

The American Ideal of 1776:
The Twelve Basic American Principles

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal
Click to expand...

I want to see the IRS abolished and replaced with nothing.

Currently though, there is an income tax, and there are people who pay it and people who don't.

No, it's not what I'd prefer, but it is the reality of the world we live in and I'm not looking to go to jail by not paying what the men with the guns say I'm supposed to pay.

However there are plenty of people who could work but choose not to and therefore don't make an income and instead live off of welfare.

When I say "pay their fair share" I mean only in the context of the current system we are forced to work under.

So don't come on to me with that indoctrinated marxist crap 'cause I think people who leech of of productive workers should be disenfranchised.

In the absence of abolishing the income tax it is a reasonable argument to make that only those who pay it should be allowed a say in how the government spends the funds it derives from it.

If I had any power I'd work to shrink the size of the government until it was paid for entirely by user fees and voluntary contributions.
 
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