What's the big deal? Why not a world wide government?

PaulaGem said:
The issue with world government is the same as with the Feds - you have to have accountability to the people all the way down the chain of command.

My premise was that that is the problem - not the scale of government, but the structure. Our system is broken on the local level and that is going to have to be fixed before the national government will function in the way it was meant to.

Yes, there are important battles to be fought on the national level - but that's only a bandaid. The fix has to start at the root of the problem, making government accountable to the people.
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The larger the scale of government and the further it is away from the people, the more difficult it is to control it.

There are some people in this world who like socialism; others like Communism, etc. There is no need for a one-size-fits-all government. No, we need to reinstate constitutional government for our own country and let the others do as they wish.
 
LibertyEagle said:
The larger the scale of government and the further it is away from the people, the more difficult it is to control it.

There are some people in this world who like socialism; others like Communism, etc. There is no need for a one-size-fits-all government. No, we need to reinstate constitutional government for our own country and let the others do as they wish.
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No where did I propose a one size fits all government - I was discussing the hierarchy of government and the possibility that national governments could come together to deal with global problems if at some point those national governments became legitimate entities based on the theory of consent of the governed put forth by the founding fathers.

At this point I do not believe there are any legitimate governments, including our own. I was trying to illustrate that it is not the level of government which is the problem bit the legitimacy of it and the source of its power.
 
Have you ever heard of the term "rhetorical question"?

Also what I proposed in the abstract depended on certain other events happening first - namely the establishment of legitimate national governments.

I then asked IF legitimate national governments wanted to have representatives come together to deal with global problems is there any inherent problem in this?

I said NO - not with the conditions I cited and not if they operated within that restricted jurisdiction.

There is no way you could construe what I said as being devised to take over national governments or be a "one size fits all" government, not if you really read the thread, which it appears you did not.

I am really getting tired of rehashing the same thing for those who don't bother to read what I wrote. This will be the last time.
 
PaulaGem said:
No you wouldn't - it's all over the place and if you wanted to see it you would already know about it.

It's history, just like Julius Ceaser, Marc Antony, whoring Popes, the inquisition, etc....
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So what are these two gospels and where is the proof?
 
ewizacft said:
So what are these two gospels and where is the proof?
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Yeshua taught that the Kingdom is now - not some future reward for those that conform to the ideas of the Church. He taught that the most important thing you could do is love God and love your neighbor as yourself. That's all it takes to enter the Kingdom.

The Christian church borrowed from pagan mythology and teaches that you have to believe in the dead god to get to heaven.

Two different gospels - one is consistent with the image of a loving Father that Yeshua and many other religions teach. The other is consistent with a war mongering vengeful sort of god also taught in just about every religion. The two are contradictory.

Jefferson knew that. Read about the "Jefferson Bible" and his concept of Christianity. You have to ignore history and the truth to buy into traditional Christianity. The good news of God's love doesn't require that you ignore history or common sense in order to attain the Kingdom.
 
I actually disagree with you PaulaGem. I would define my religious philosophy as Gnostic & my religion as Pagan. And I believe the Bible & Abrahamic religons altogether stem from Paganism, and the early Catholic church's association with nature-based Pagan religions in Europe is demonized by many Evangelicals today. If anything, removing the more Pagan gospels & books in the Bible is what harmed Christianity and turned it into a literalist "My god is better than your god" religion.
 
Your just saying how it can work in a libertarian sense.


What do you think the advantage is though?
It's just going to get corrupt like every other government in history.
There truly is no point. I can assure you will it be much harder to maintain a world wide government and every few years a state will probably break off of the world government.
 
Flash said:
I actually disagree with you PaulaGem. I would define my religious philosophy as Gnostic & my religion as Pagan. And I believe the Bible & Abrahamic religons altogether stem from Paganism, and the early Catholic church's association with nature-based Pagan religions in Europe is demonized by many Evangelicals today. If anything, removing the more Pagan gospels & books in the Bible is what harmed Christianity and turned it into a literalist "My god is better than your god" religion.
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I too would define my religious philosophy as Gnostic. I also believe the original teachings of Yeshua were gnostic. I work with pagans (see www.strung-out.biz) but I would call myself a Christian in the sense that it is teachings of Yeshua that I follow, but really don't follow any religion.

By my understanding religion is a cultural thing and not really relevant to one's Spiritual state. If you personally find that ritual or a certain style of prayer helps you to focus on Spirit, that's fine. I appreciate Christianity no more or no less that I appreciate my Scots-Irish heritage. It's just part of where I come from culturally.

Have you read Pagels? She estimates that before the Romans started killing off Christians and their competing gospels there were about 80 of them, interwoven with various local religious traditions, some of which were pagan. People have no idea how much the teachings were changed and fiddled with before the bishops and Nicea got their hands on them.

Some historians believe that the great library of Alexandria was destroyed in order to get rid of non-Roman Christian writings.

In the end, the Council of Nicea and Constantine made a pure political play when they created "orthodox" Christianity. They were trying to fabricate a religion that would appeal to the greatest number of Romans in attempt to unify the Empire. God had nothing to do with it.

As I said to the first poster, the history is there if you care to study it.

Love & Light
Paula
 
If you are upset about expierences with your local government then why do you assume the solution will be global government instead of anarchy or revamping our current system. And by revamping I mean re-establishing the Republic.
 
The big deal is that a worldwide government -- which pretty much all economic and political history suggests will be MORE inefficient, wasteful and corrupt -- affords no egress for dissenters.

Conscientious Objectors, to dust off a term favored in the 1960's and a concept founded upon earlier than that, would have NOWHERE to go.

The ol' America: Love It Or Leave It? Okay. Sadly . . . I never thought it would come to this . . . but, yeah, with much regret, I'm leaving you . . . sniff sniff, wave.

Whaddya mean, I CAN'T break up with you? I'm stuck in a one-sided, unsatisfactory and perhaps even abusive relationship FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE because the fabled Majority, the majority of whom I shall never know, have agreed-read-that-decreed that it shall be so? You mean to tell me that there is NO PLACE ON EARTH where I can go to peaceably and prosperously live differently than you would have me live? Alrighty then. In that case, I guess I'll just hunker down and work hard and be pleasant and generally excel at citizenship.
 
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cheapseats said:
The big deal is that a worldwide government -- which pretty much all economic and political history suggests will be MORE inefficient, wasteful and corrupt -- affords no egress for dissenters.

Conscientious Objectors, to dust off a term favored in the 1960's and a concept founded upon earlier than that, would have NOWHERE to go.

The ol' America: Love It Or Leave It? Okay. Sadly . . . I never thought it would come to this . . . but, yeah, with much regret, I'm leaving you . . . sniff sniff, wave.

Whaddya mean, I CAN'T break up with you? I'm stuck in a one-sided, unsatisfactory and perhaps even abusive relationship FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE because the fabled Majority, the majority of whom I shall never know, have agreed-read-that-decreed that it shall be so? You mean to tell me that there is NO PLACE ON EARTH where I can go to peaceably and prosperously live differently than you would have me live? Alrighty then. In that case, I guess I'll just hunker down and work hard and be pleasant and generally excel at citizenship.
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Unfortunately, your lament does not take into consideration the entire argument. See the posts above.

I will not respond further.
 
Live_Free_Or_Die said:
A previous poster cited the root problem with one world government and that is lack of competition.

Another notion that you are spouting is that rights come from government. You are denying the very facts of human nature. People are free to act limited only by their means. That is not something created by a government. Your assertions about government also assume the existence of human flaw such as greed, vanity, etc does not exist.

Regarding your assertions about structure I think you would be well served to dive into state law to fully understand the limitations of local government. Local government does not exist. It is a concept created in state law and is limited to power(s) expressly granted by the state. There is little competition among local governments. All crimes are prosecuted by the state. Professions and occupations are regulated by the state. Licensing is regulated by the state. Etc.

The governing documents of law in our Republic for federal and state governments are federal and state constitutions. That is where the legal battle is and amending those documents to remove jurisdictions. This is the only way to take everything we have learned over the past two centuries and apply it. Amending state and federal constitutions is the only way to restrict the power of government by clearly and concisely enumerating government powers.

I do not agree with your assertions. The only way to "fix" anything is to amend federal and state constitutions. The only way to do that is propose amendments and solicit support. Either by petition, lobby, election, or political persuasion.

Anything short of constitutional change is an election cycle short term solution.
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And if the current situation of general disenfranchisement continues, who is going to do this, some divinely inspired politicians who magically begin to respect the Constitution and our rights as defined therein?
 
As a humanitarian in concept I can envision one world government as a good thing. But not if one mg of freedom is lost by one person on the planet. Is one world government about controlling the worlds people? Or is it about everyone being truly free?

I can imagine a utopia where everyone respects one another and considers each individual as sovereign. Is this what the leaders envision for the world? How much death would happen as a result of placing the world under one government? That is the part that concerns me.
 
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