What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?

Origanalist said:
In the same way they "asked" people to stay in their homes.

th
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they also asked people to keep their hands up !
 
Traditional Conservative said:
That's just where I disagree. I believe in a limited government that exists to defend life, liberty, and property. I don't want to live in a country where it's every man for himself, where only the strong survive. I believe that government has a role, and it should defend life and liberty, and espcially defend those who aren't capable of defending themselves.
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I believe in limited governance that exists to defend life, liberty, and property as well.

A monopoly government that exists through taxation cannot defend life, liberty, or property without first threatening life, liberty, and property.

I don't want to live in a world where only those with the means to feed themselves survive. We don't need a monopoly government to achieve the goal of providing for those who are unable to provide for themselves. That goes just as well for physical security as it goes for financial or nutritional security.

Monopoly government cannot feed everyone, it cannot make everyone rich, it cannot make everyone secure in their lives and property. This is the problem with providing for people through government socialism. It can merely take by force and redistribute wealth and make decisions for people command them to obey. This includes physical security. Imagine there was an invader in your home. Which would you prefer in your hand, a gun or a phone? Ultimately it's up to you to make sure that you're secure. It doesn't mean only the strong survive any more than it means that only those who grow food survive when food is provided through the market.

As Mises has shown monopolies also cannot economically calculate what is an efficient use of resources, as they lose price signals from the market. How many "police officers" (what we're really talking about is security guards) should have been on the ground before it became wasteful and those resources could have been better used to improve people's lives? We can't know because instead of the efficient resource allocation of supply and demand, those decisions are centralized and made by bureaucrats instead of free individuals choosing the level of security they feel is appropriate and the amount they should spend on it through the market. If the choice is between purchasing food or putting the 9,999th security guard on the street, maybe getting food would be a more appropriate choice for an individual. Surely there's more cost-effective and less intrusive ways to catch bad guys.

Right now it's not up to us to make those decisions though, because our liberty to choose how our defense is provided and at what cost has been taken from us and what we are left with is an organization which has monopolized security and makes our decisions for us which is purported to exist for our protection, but seems to exist largely to protect the consolidation of power and those groups and individuals who have managed to become influential to this central power. It's a dangerous thing.
 
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All of this was not necessary. This was unwarranted and an excuse to flaunt in front of our faces the "power" that these cops have with the DHS toys and gear. My wife kept telling me these were soldiers and I kept telling her NO, they're not. But they look like them with their ridiculous outfits and weapons.
 
APAT Warrior said:
All of this was not necessary. This was unwarranted and an excuse to flaunt in front of our faces the "power" that these cops have with the DHS toys and gear. My wife kept telling me these were soldiers and I kept telling her NO, they're not. But they look like them with their ridiculous outfits and weapons.
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I don't think they were rubbing our nose in it....


But I do think it was for them a good exercise to see how easy it was to Flex their power, and gauge the minimal resistance as they suspected.

And the fallout was minimal, even better....
 
APAT Warrior said:
All of this was not necessary. This was unwarranted and an excuse to flaunt in front of our faces the "power" that these cops have with the DHS toys and gear. My wife kept telling me these were soldiers and I kept telling her NO, they're not. But they look like them with their ridiculous outfits and weapons.
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I agree with your wife.

These "soldiers" might not have drawn their paycheck from the DOD but they certainly mirrored every other feature and behavior of their military counterparts.

You know the soldiers that the now defunct Posse Comitatus Act prohibited from operating within our borders...
 
After participating in and reading this thread, it's kind of amazing that we all support the same candidates like Rand, Amash, Massie etc. I guess liberty really does unite people.
 
I'm not fond of sweeping searches because of the implication that you must prove your innocence to the law by showing that you have nothing to hide. That's not really how our system is supposed to work.

It's supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty.'

But it seems to be morphing into: 'guilty until we rifle through your shit and determine you're probably innocent.'
 
APAT Warrior said:
All of this was not necessary. This was unwarranted and an excuse to flaunt in front of our faces the "power" that these cops have with the DHS toys and gear. My wife kept telling me these were soldiers and I kept telling her NO, they're not. But they look like them with their ridiculous outfits and weapons.
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That is probably closer to the root of all of the abuse. It may be human nature. Give them training, costumes and toys, and the temptation will always be there to use them. They will look for reasons to "deploy". Any excuse, no matter how minor. Look at the "drug raids". Absolutely unnecessary to have militarized Police engaged in military tactics for every day warrants. They do it because they have the equipment, practiced using it, want to use it, and the war on drugs gives them the perfect excuse to practice on live citizens (and not so live dogs).

Everything is a nail to a hammer.
 
Traditional Conservative said:
Um, I did quote it. I'll quote it again.
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We read his quote quite differently. You read it as 'cops should do nothing'. I read it as 'cops should do what they do in every other case', which is... not lockdown the city.

Originalist's quote is:
"They could have simply broadcast their pictures, and told people to be on the lookout for them but not to approach as they usually do. I cannot in my lifetime remember a whole city being shut down before."

To me, that's saying the city shouldn't have been locked down, but instead the people should have been alerted to the perps so they could keep an eye out TOO. That's basing the two sentences in context with each other, most importantly the second sentence: "I cannot in my lifetime remember a whole city being shut down before."

You read it as him saying 'cops should do absolutely nothing'. But that's not what he said, and in my opinion, not even what he implied.

EDIT -- reading through the thread i see Jmdrake already beat you to a pulp for your (intentional?) misreading of Originalist's quote. But again, you have a multi-year history of (intentionally?) misrepresenting what people say. I don't know if it's (intentionally?) disingenuous, or if you simply have issues with reading comprehension, but I do know posters here have been calling you out on it for -years-. You have a consistent habit of conveniently rewording/rephrasing/summarizing the statements of other people into something completely different in meaning from what they actually said. Perhaps you should take that into consideration when you post. You need to work on reading comprehension. And if you feel that's untrue, then you need to work on honesty... because it's one or the other.
 
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Brian4Liberty said:
That is probably closer to the root of all of the abuse. It may be human nature. Give them training, costumes and toys, and the temptation will always be there to use them. They will look for reasons to "deploy". Any excuse, no matter how minor. Look at the "drug raids". Absolutely unnecessary to have militarized Police engaged in military tactics for every day warrants. They do it because they have the equipment, practiced using it, want to use it, and the war on drugs gives them the perfect excuse to practice on live citizens (and not so live dogs).

Everything is a nail to a hammer.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
 
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