What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?

[dusman]

What evidence is there that rights were taken away? They asked that people stay in their homes; they didn't force them to stay in their homes. And I haven't seen any evidence of warrantless searches.

I don't know, but this doesn't look voluntary to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8&lch

 

[Brett85]

The income tax is not "reasonable". The federal reserve is not "reasonable." The TSA and the naked body scanners and the random groping of grandmothers and toddlers is not reasonable.

Things like the IRS, Federal Reserve, 80% of the federal departments aren't essential functions of government, but having a local police force that cracks down on crime and arrests violent criminals is an essential function of government.

 

[TheTexan]

In that situation the police didn't have any idea where McVeigh was. In this situation, the suspect had escaped from the police, and the police actually had a good idea about the general area that he was in. They set a perimiter where they believed the suspect was and searched the perimiter, which was the right thing to do.

Shutting down an entire city and in the process, violating constitutional rights, was the right thing to do.... even though it didn't even work.....

 

[Brett85]

Not true. You got the response of people point out to the the fact that the lockdown didn't actually help and that when the citizens felt free to move about they caught the guy. You also got the response about the bloodhounds.

I did give that guy credit for that response. That was essentially the only response that didn't say, "let private citizens catch this guy."

 

[Brett85]

Shutting down an entire city and in the process, violating constitutional rights, was the right thing to do.... even though it didn't even work.....

I think that the lockdown was a mistake in hindsight, but not creating a perimiter and searching for the suspect in the perimiter. They had no choice but to do that. They weren't just going to go back to their office and play games on their computer.

 

[TheTexan]

I think that the lockdown was a mistake in hindsight, but not creating a perimiter and searching for the suspect in the perimiter. They had no choice but to do that. They weren't just going to go back to their office and play games on their computer.

I agree. What's the point of having this huge militarized police force, bearcats, and MRAP's, if we don't use them?

Otherwise they would just be wasted... and we wouldn't want that.

 

[otherone]

having a local police force that cracks down on crime and arrests violent criminals is an essential function of government.

Please answer this question:
Do you think it acceptable that police suspend the Rights of the local population if it aids them in apprehending suspected violent offenders?

 

[nobody's_hero]

In that situation the police didn't have any idea where McVeigh was. In this situation, the suspect had escaped from the police, and the police actually had a good idea about the general area that he was in. They set a perimiter where they believed the suspect was and searched the perimiter, which was the right thing to do.

Let's recap:

A) You asked for an alternative to what we saw in Boston a week ago.

B) I presented you with an alternative by showing how McVeigh was caught without the need to have an entire city shut down.

C) You immediately dismissed my factual historical reference by formulating a hypothetical about what might have happened blah blah blah in the OKC bombing (but . . . didn't happen, because you switched from asking for facts to formulating hypotheticals) which somehow is supposed to justify the vastly different approach we see just 18 years later.

And, to top it off, as bxm points out, this more recent approach didn't even work. So not only did you come up with a hypothetical scenario of a Boston-style manhunt after the OKC bombing, but you fail to realize that a manhunt of that sort actually just occurred and failed.

In summary, 1 state trooper in 1995 beats 200 cops standing outside a dunkin donuts in 2013. At least they weren't "playing games on the computer."

At this rate, in 5 years or so, they'll start nuking entire cities to root out jaywalkers.

 

[jmdrake]

I believe I said that this attack was the 1st attack on our soil since 9-11.

There are times when I have a near photographic memory.

It was an extraoridinary situation because it was only the 2nd terrorist attack on our soil in our country's history. It's not something that happens every day.

 

[Brett85]

Please answer this question:
Do you think it acceptable that police suspend the Rights of the local population if it aids them in apprehending suspected violent offenders?

1) I don't believe that rights were suspended. For one thing, most people from Boston are saying that the police asked permission to go into homes.
2) The 4th amendment specifically mentions "unreasonable" searches and seizures, not all searches and seizures. The courts have long held that when there's an imminent threat to the public, searches are not "unreasonable."

 

[Brett85]

There are times when I have a near photographic memory.

Ok, then I misstated what I was trying to say. What I meant is that it was the first terrorist attack since 9-11. Sorry for the misstatement.

 

[jmdrake]

In that situation the police didn't have any idea where McVeigh was. In this situation, the suspect had escaped from the police, and the police actually had a good idea about the general area that he was in. They set a perimiter where they believed the suspect was and searched the perimiter, which was the right thing to do.

Setting a perimeter and looking for a suspect happens all the time. Setting a perimeter and telling everyone to stay indoors and arresting on occasion someone who violates the "voluntary lockdown" does not. And at they end of the day they found him after the lockdown was lifted.

 

[jmdrake]

Let's recap:

A) You asked for an alternative to what we saw in Boston a week ago.

B) I presented you with an alternative by showing how McVeigh was caught without the need to have an entire city shut down.

C) You immediately dismissed my factual historical reference by formulating a hypothetical about what might have happened blah blah blah in the OKC bombing (but . . . didn't happen, because you switched from asking for facts to formulating hypotheticals) which somehow is supposed to justify the vastly different approach we see just 18 years later.

And, to top it off, as bxm points out, this more recent approach didn't even work. So not only did you come up with a hypothetical scenario of a Boston-style manhunt after the OKC bombing, but you fail to realize that a manhunt of that sort actually just occurred and failed.

In summary, 1 state trooper in 1995 beats 200 cops standing outside a dunkin donuts in 2013. At least they weren't "playing games on the computer."

At this rate, in 5 years or so, they'll start nuking entire cities to root out jaywalkers.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to nobody's_hero again.

 

[Brett85]

Setting a perimeter and looking for a suspect happens all the time. Setting a perimeter and telling everyone to stay indoors and arresting on occasion someone who violates the "voluntary lockdown" does not. And at they end of the day they found him after the lockdown was lifted.

I've said that the lockdown was a mistake, but I understand why they did it given the situation that existed. They had to react fast and didn't have much time to decide what to do.

 

[jmdrake]

Ok, then I misstated what I was trying to say. What I meant is that it was the first terrorist attack since 9-11. Sorry for the misstatement.

Fair enough. Now can you be open minded enough to see that people like "nobody's_hero" who are pointing out to you that serious terrorists have been caught without massive police lockdowns aren't saying "just let the private citizens catch the guy"?

 

[Brett85]

Fair enough. Now can you be open minded enough to see that people like "nobody's_hero" who are pointing out to you that serious terrorists have been caught without massive police lockdowns aren't saying "just let the private citizens catch the guy"?

The McVeigh situation was entirely different. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Just two entirely different situations and events.

 

[pcosmar]

"Thread: What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?"


Did anyone pick drones yet?

I think it may have been suggested,, perhaps tongue in cheek.

What hasn't was..

Investigation (honest and thorough)
Surveillance/Observation
A polite and civil approach to ask questions. (instead of a heavily armed assault force)
A warrant based on actual evidence.

and if (and only if) you are sure they are both guilty and dangerous,, bait them into a place where NO Civilian Casualties are possible.

None of which was done.

 

[anaconda]

all terrorists are Islamists."

Except for the 94% that aren't..

http://www.usislam.org/Islamophobia/all_terrorists_are_muslim EXCEPT----.htm

 

[S.Shorland]

Answer: A nuclear suitcase bomb

 

[Aratus]

bill clinton in the 1990s had far less authority concerning any micromanaging of the events after the tragic bombing in 1995.

2013 is after the steroid intense imperial presidency of george w. bush, and if the cops went to POTUS instead of a judge before

entering a legal domicile inside the "red" zone thusly established, it would not surprise me if D.C supervised each nanosecond.