What religion are you?

[pcosmar]

What I'm trying to say is, I don't think spirituality can transcend between Christianity and other belief systems.

I will ask another question for you to ponder on,,, two actually,,

What religion was Job? What religion was Noah?

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I will ask another question for you to ponder on,,, two actually,,

What religion was Job? What religion was Noah?

That I know of, we don't even know "who" job was or from where he was a descendant. A seriously strange and disturbing book, though (to me)

 

[Christian Liberty]

Judaism was the truth from Moses until Christ. Before Moses it didn't really have a name as far as I can tell, it was just worship of the One True God.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Judaism was the truth from Moses until Christ. Before Moses it didn't really have a name as far as I can tell, it was just worship of the One True God.

GodS. Read the whole thing. Even David said that the Lord sits in the council of the gods. Also, that is another whole thing. That was a misquote that was supposedly from Jesus. The gods would die like men. I have said that ye are gods but ye shall die like men. He was talking to the council of gods. Not to men.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Wait, WHAT?

 

[ReasonableThinker]

Ancient "Judaism" was without one clear view of God. The ancient hebrew texts hint towards a henotheistic, monolatristic, and sometimes even polytheistic viewpoints. Psalm 104, for example, is remarkably similar to the Hymn of Aten, and clearly sun worship. Josephus, the famous Jewish Roman historian, himself was a henotheist. It's quite possible Jews didn't become hardcore monotheists until Christianity was born. I'm of the belief Judaism stems from Atenism, which was the world's first recorded henotheistic faith. The world's first monotheist religion was Zoroastrianism.

 

[erowe1]

Judaism was the truth from Moses until Christ. Before Moses it didn't really have a name as far as I can tell, it was just worship of the One True God.

Even after Moses, it may have had a name, but that name was never "Judaism." "Judaism" as a name of a religion only really comes about when "Judaism" and "Christianity" come to be distinguished from one another as mutually exclusive.

 

[erowe1]

Ancient "Judaism" was without one clear view of God. The ancient hebrew texts hint towards a henotheistic, monolatristic, and sometimes even polytheistic viewpoints. Psalm 104, for example, is remarkably similar to the Hymn of Aten, and clearly sun worship. Josephus, the famous Jewish Roman historian, himself was a henotheist. It's quite possible Jews didn't become hardcore monotheists until Christianity was born. I'm of the belief Judaism stems from Atenism, which was the world's first recorded henotheistic faith. The world's first monotheist religion was Zoroastrianism.

There's plenty of hardcore monotheism in the Old Testament. And the relative dating of those books to Zoroastrianism is a matter of dispute. All known Zoroastrian literature is much later.

ETA: Could you cite any evidence from Josephus for his being a henotheist and not a monotheist (which are not necessarily mutually exclusive, depending on what is meant by them)?

 

[pcosmar]

That I know of, we don't even know "who" job was or from where he was a descendant. A seriously strange and disturbing book, though (to me)

I find it both interesting and inspirational. And no,, we don't know.

but they were both before the promise to Abram.

Like I said,, religion obscures truth. It is often used to control and manipulate. Faith however,, transcends religion.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Ancient "Judaism" was without one clear view of God. The ancient hebrew texts hint towards a henotheistic, monolatristic, and sometimes even polytheistic viewpoints. Psalm 104, for example, is remarkably similar to the Hymn of Aten, and clearly sun worship. Josephus, the famous Jewish Roman historian, himself was a henotheist. It's quite possible Jews didn't become hardcore monotheists until Christianity was born. I'm of the belief Judaism stems from Atenism, which was the world's first recorded henotheistic faith. The world's first monotheist religion was Zoroastrianism.

Yes, most bibles don't always translate that correctly. It was stated that god separated the nations according to the number of the sons of god. That is usually translated as "according to the number of the sons of Israel".

 

[erowe1]

Yes, most bibles don't always translate that correctly. It was stated that god separated the nations according to the number of the sons of god. That is usually translated as "according to the number of the sons of Israel".

You're talking about Deuteronomy 32:8. The Masoretic Text does say "sons of Israel."

Even if the original were "sons of God (or gods)" that would just be the angels. The LORD himself was not one of those.

 

[erowe1]

I find it both interesting and inspirational. And no,, we don't know.

but they were both before the promise to Abram.

Like I said,, religion obscures truth. It is often used to control and manipulate. Faith however,, transcends religion.

I think Job was after the time of Abraham, and possibly even a descendant of Abraham, but outside of the nation of Israel.

I agree that it's interesting and inspirational. If someone wants to approach it looking for ways to say bad things about God, that's what they'll come away with. But if they're willing to give the story the benefit of the doubt and look for the positive messages in it, they'll see them.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

You're talking about Deuteronomy 32:8. The Masoretic Text does say "sons of Israel."

Even if the original were "sons of God (or gods)" that would just be the angels. The LORD himself was not one of those.

And just what are the so called "angels"? What is a god? Think, man, think.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I think Job was after the time of Abraham, and possibly even a descendant of Abraham, but outside of the nation of Israel.

I agree that it's interesting and inspirational. If someone wants to approach it looking for ways to say bad things about God, that's what they'll come away with. But if they're willing to give the story the benefit of the doubt and look for the positive messages in it, they'll see them.

Positive that god told lucifer "you can destroy all that is his but don't touch him"? And later even afflict him less death? And the new beautiful children made up for that?
I guess it ended on a positive note...

 

[erowe1]

And just what are the so called "angels"? What is a god?

Those angels are lesser beings than the LORD, who is the creator of all things, including them. Calling them gods or sons of god doesn't undermine monotheism.

Think, man, think.

Thanks for the advice. I tend to do that.

 

[erowe1]

Positive that god told lucifer "you can destroy all that is his but don't touch him"? And later even afflict him less death? And the new beautiful children made up for that?
I guess it ended on a positive note...

I don't think the new children made up for it. Nor do I think the audience of the book is supposed to think they did. Job's need for resolution about the theological problem he was facing in that book was already resolved before God gave him those children.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Those angels are lesser beings than the LORD, who is the creator of all things, including them. Calling them gods or sons of god doesn't undermine monotheism.

But, monotheism isn't what they believed in or wrote about. And you still aren't considering the "what" or "who" in all of this. What "IS" an angel or god? Some ethereal stuff floating around? Thoughts only?

 

[ClydeCoulter]

How about let's get back to what the bible actually says?

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Who was Leah? Who was Hagar? Compare the two.

 

[erowe1]

But, monotheism isn't what they believed in or wrote about. And you still aren't considering the "what" or "who" in all of this. What "IS" an angel or god? Some ethereal stuff floating around? Thoughts only?

I'm not sure how you determine what I am and am not considering. But yes, angels and God are spiritual beings.

Do the laws of logic exist? Are you considering what they are? Are they some ethereal stuff floating around? Do we have to know how to answer that to believe in them?

But your first sentence is pretty important. "Monotheism" isn't what who believed in or wrote about? And how do you know this?