What proof of citizenship should we carry on us to show to ICE?

[TheCount]

Per Brett Kavanaugh in the recent Supreme Court ruling:

as for stops of those individuals who are legally in the country, the questioning in those circumstances is typically brief, and those individuals may promptly go free after making clear to the immigration officers that they are U. S. citizens or otherwise legally in the United States.

How should Americans make it clear to those fine immigration officers that they are citizens and/or legally in the country?

 

[PAF]

Per Brett Kavanaugh in the recent Supreme Court ruling:

How should Americans make it clear to those fine immigration officers that they are citizens and/or legally in the country?

It's only just a matter of time.

 

[TheTexan]

As far as I'm concerned skin color should be sufficient, otherwise papers

It's just the most practical solution

 

[nikcers]

Either there are thousands of years of written human history of wars and invasions and nobody has ever even thought of sneaking into a country and pretending to be a citizen and taking over a country-

Or there is no written history because the existing people who lived in the region got erased from history.

It sort of feels like losing a war to me though without even fighting back.

What would the founders do?

 

[PAF]

As far as I'm concerned skin color should be sufficient, otherwise papers

It's just the most practical solution

That's no fair. I go to Mexico and other countries a lot and get a lot of sun next to the beautiful Russian babes who are there too. Why can't everybody just be left alone as long as it's my/their own money?

For a rough and tuff Texan, you sure are such an authoritarian. Just like @Anti Federalist who is supposedly from the "Live Free or Die" state.

Here I am teaching you guys what freedom actually means, and I'm from PA!

 

[nikcers]

As far as I'm concerned skin color should be sufficient, otherwise papers

It's just the most practical solution

That wouldn't be politically correct though.

What if someone calls the PC police and other countries that hate us call us natzis?

I just want to not be called a natzi and if someone calls me a natzi I just cannot take it and I will melt down and give away my house.

 

[TheTexan]

That's not fair. I go to Mexico and other countries a lot and get a lot of sun next to the beautiful Russian babes who are there too. Why can't everybody just be left alone as long as it's my/their own money?

If you stay on your property you will get no issues from me good sir

For a rough and tuff Texan, you sure are such an authoritarian.

Yea sometimes. Mostly not

Authoritarian really just means exerting your will on others. When you do it on your own land its called freedom, but when I do it on land that has been stolen from me its called authoritarianism. Shrug!

Just like @Anti Federalist who is supposedly from the "Live Free or Die" state. Here I am teaching you guys what freedom actually means, and I'm from PA!

Well, you're not free, and you haven't died, so you're not exactly living up to that motto either

 

[TheTexan]

That wouldn't be politically correct though.

What if someone calls the politically correct police and other countries that hate us call us natzis?

I just want to not be called a natzi and if someone calls me a natzi I just cannot take it and I will melt down and give away my house.

It's a horrible insult that I would not wish upon anyone

 

[PAF]

If you stay on your property you will get no issues from me good sir

So, according to you, I should get a refund on the ticket that I just purchased and stay right put. Got it.

Yea sometimes. Mostly not

Pregnant just a little?

Authoritarian really just means exerting your will on others.

Right now you're exerting much more authoritarianism than any brown folk I've encountered.

When you do it on your own land its called freedom, but when I do it on land that has been stolen from me its called authoritarianism. Shrug!

I keep asking for your deed to the entire nation which would also include my plot that I live on.

Well, you're not free, and you haven't died, so you're not exactly living up to that motto either

You're just jealous. You can see those Russian babes in Acapulco too just like me. You just want ICE and Palantir to profit off of my tanned skin.

 

[nikcers]

Right now you're exerting much more authoritarianism than any brown folk I've encountered.

Yeah so we should just not be authoritarian like they are and atleast ask for 24 dollars worth of beads and trinkets?

 

[TheTexan]

So, according to you, I should get a refund on the ticket that I just purchased and stay right put. Got it.

That's not what I said. What I said was that I respect your sovereignty when you are on your land and I will not bother you there. If you do leave, which you may, you don't really have the right to demand to be left alone at that point, as the ownership of this land is very muddled and ambiguous, and your inherent right to dictate terms on that land is approximately equal to mine or anyone else that was born here and has paid taxes their entire life.

While I don't want these brown foreigners coming to this land, it's for a very good reason. The ownership of this land is already extremely ambiguous and muddled, but what is crystal clear, is that these brown people have zero - absolutely zero - legitimate claim to it.

When we let these foreigners settle themselves on our land, we are literally giving away our claims to it.

Pregnant just a little?

I mean, there's pregnant, and then there's pregnant with quadruples, so that would be like super pregnant.

I don't think I'm super pregnant, I would probably know.

Right now you're exerting much more authoritarianism than any brown folk I've encountered.

Somehow I doubt that.

I would bet my last dollar that the near entirety of these brown people have absolutely no problem with forcing me to pay taxes, essentially keeping me as their tax slave.

Keeping someone as a tax slave is by far more authoritarian than simply saying "you are not welcome on this property and if you do not leave I will remove you by force".

I keep asking for your deed to the entire nation which would also include my plot that I live on.

I don't make claims to your plot of land. But I do make claims to some small fraction of the land that is considered public.

You're just jealous. You can see those Russian babes in Acapulco too just like me. You just want ICE and Palantir to profit off of my tanned skin.

I mean, if it makes PLTR stock go up, then I'm mostly fine with it yea

 

[otherone]

Per Brett Kavanaugh in the recent Supreme Court ruling:




How should Americans make it clear to those fine immigration officers that they are citizens and/or legally in the country?

I have a wallet sized passport ID issued by the State Department. I keep it next to my driver's license.

 

[TheCount]

I have a wallet sized passport ID issued by the State Department. I keep it next to my driver's license.

If Americans are now required to present federal ID on command, should the fed gov take over all ID from the states? Or should we be required to carry both state and federal ID?

 

[TheTexan]

If Americans are now required to present federal ID on command, should the fed gov take over all ID from the states? Or should we be required to carry both state and federal ID?

I think state and federal ID would be insufficient.

Ideally, state, federal and county ID.

Perhaps city ID also but that may be overboard

 

[PAF]

That's not what I said. What I said was that I respect your sovereignty when you are on your land and I will not bother you there. If you do leave, which you may, you don't really have the right to demand to be left alone at that point, as the ownership of this land is very muddled and ambiguous,

Of course. I've been complaining the entire time that few people are principled anymore [see Overton Window] and folks like you seem to be going down some kind of path that should be repugnant under normal circumstances. [see your very last sentence].

and your inherent right to dictate terms on that land is approximately equal to mine or anyone else that was born here and has paid taxes their entire life.

Government should not be in the business of "owning land". And, what taxes have you paid which homesteads, or gives you and tax payers any rights over virgin land up the desolate mountains of PA or West Virginia, or land that is outside of any easements?

While I don't want these brown foreigners coming to this land, it's for a very good reason. The ownership of this land is already extremely ambiguous and muddled, but what is crystal clear, is that these brown people have zero - absolutely zero - legitimate claim to it.

Without a property deed, no more than you do. IOW: tough.

When we let these foreigners settle themselves on our land, we are literally giving away our claims to it.

Not sure how that's done when many of them are "illegal". But then if they pay for a piece of property I don't have a problem with it. It's not immigrants who make policy; it's the politicians you and other natural-born 'Merikans elect.

I mean, there's pregnant, and then there's pregnant with quadruples, so that would be like super pregnant.

I don't think I'm super pregnant, I would probably know.

Authoritarianism is like being pregnant. Whether with one or quadruples, it's still pregnant.

Somehow I doubt that.

I would bet my last dollar that the near entirety of these brown people have absolutely no problem with forcing me to pay taxes, essentially keeping me as their tax slave.

Keeping someone as a tax slave is by far more authoritarian than simply saying "you are not welcome on this property and if you do not leave I will remove you by force".

Get rid the problem, not the symptom.

I don't make claims to your plot of land. But I do make claims to some small fraction of the land that is considered public.

And if you don't homestead it, do what with it? Stand there with a sign that says "I don't have a deed but GTFO anyway"?

That mentality is setting the precedent that if when TPTB want to restrict your right to travel freely, you just condoned it [see Larken Rose here].

I mean, if it makes PLTR stock go up, then I'm mostly fine with it yea

On the tax payer dime. That's some screwed up thinking right there.

 

[Invisible Man]

What would the founders do?

They would not permit federal agents to ask us for papers to prove we are here legally.

 

[nikcers]

They would not permit federal agents to ask us for papers to prove we are here legally.

Yeah thats not at all what they thought and what they did.

Who do you think created the alien enemies act?

Obviously you can't have the alien enemies act unless the federal government can decide who is an alien.

The alien can't just self identify as not an alien.

 

[nikcers]

They would not permit federal agents to ask us for papers to prove we are here legally.

Yeah they wouldnt ask for papers or a state's permission because they didn't need to.

If there were aliens the president would just deport them because thats the law.

Or the armed citizens would force them to leave using force.

 

[TheCount]

Yeah thats not at all what they thought and what they did.

Who do you think created the alien enemies act?

Obviously you can't have the alien enemies act unless the federal government can decide who is an alien.

The alien can't just self identify as not an alien.

This is how we know that you've never read the alien enemies act.

 

[TheTexan]

Of course. I've been complaining the entire time that few people are principled anymore [see Overton Window] and folks like you seem to be going down some kind of path that should be repugnant under normal circumstances. [see your very last sentence].

The concept that @PAF is not able to dictate terms on land that he does not own, is repugnant?

Nah, the opposite is a repugnant concept.

Government should not be in the business of "owning land".

Government doesn't own the land. Government is an abstract concept and it's not capable of owning land. The land is owned and controlled by people. The people who currently own and control this land is generally not us.

Then there is another group of people (e.g., you and me) who have a legitimate claim to the ownership of the land. Based on the fundamental principles of property rights and the concepts of theft and reparation, we have a right to dispute the ownership of the land.

And, what taxes have you paid which homesteads, or gives you and tax payers any rights over virgin land up the desolate mountains of PA or West Virginia, or land that is outside of any easements?

That land has value and that land is certainly being controlled and restricted by the same people who are stealing my money.

It is within my natural rights to demand reparation for that which is stolen from me, and that "virgin land" would be an acceptable form of compensation, depending exactly how many virgins are upon that land. (I would require at least 4)

Without a property deed, no more than you do. IOW: tough.

I do not need a property deed to declare that I have been stolen from and demand reparations in whatever form that I can manage to acquire.

Not sure how that's done when many of them are "illegal". But then if they pay for a piece of property I don't have a problem with it. It's not immigrants who make policy; it's the politicians you and other natural-born 'Merikans elect.

To be fair, it's not really any of your business why I don't want them here. It's my land, at least partially, and I don't want them here. That's reason enough.

It's also your land, at least partially, and you do want them here. I don't harass you over your choice, I simply respect it and disagree.

Authoritarianism is like being pregnant. Whether with one or quadruples, it's still pregnant.

And as I've said, many times before, I don't deny being authoritarian (or even fascist) in some limited regards.

I am still distinctly less authoritarian than 99.9% of people, especially considering that I recognize every individual's right to secede (and yes, even the foreigners who have bought land).

Get rid the problem, not the symptom.

The problem is and always has been people.

More people is never the solution.

And if you don't homestead it, do what with it? Stand there with a sign that says "I don't have a deed but GTFO anyway"?

Yea, why not? I mean, does libertarian theory require the existence of a formal document in order for property rights to exist?

That mentality is setting the precedent that if when TPTB want to restrict your right to travel freely, you just condoned it [see Larken Rose here].

I am absolutely condoning it, I condone literally everything the government is doing because it is their right to do it.

With the exception - the very large exception - that they don't have the right to deny my secession.

On the tax payer dime. That's some screwed up thinking right there.

Again, I don't really fault them for that.

I used to say that this government is illegitimate, and in a lot of ways it is.

But in a lot of ways this government is legitimate. People like nikcers love the shit out of this government and are voluntary members.

Something like 80-90% or more of people in this country are voluntary members of this association we call government.

And if they want to do taxes and such or restrict travel or whatever, it's their right as owners of this land to do that.

The primary violation of my rights is not the taxes but the restriction of my secession.