What it will take to secure our borders

[bwlibertyman]

Or we can open the borders, tear down the fence, and tell the border guards to do something better with their time. What's the point in not allowing people to come here? Assuming the come here which they do, they have/should follow our laws. I don't see what the big deal is. What's the difference between me taking a 1 year long vacation in canada (i don't know why I would want to) and just living there for the rest of my life? If I don't hurt anybody what makes the difference whether I'm a citizen or not? I'm not really sure I understand the argument unless it is "we can't let those dirty brown people over here because they ......take our jobs.....are ugly....buy houses....buy stuff......" Can somebody give me a decent argument to close the borders? If people come here and follow our laws I don't think there should be much to bitch about.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Ending the welfare state is the only thing that is needed; everything else is simply treating the symptoms.

The Washingtonians weren't meant to solve our state and local problems. These Washingtonians and the large corporations keeping them in business are sleeping together. Once again, as we the people only know how to solve our problems on the local level, we have been fooled into thinking we can lobby them away on the Federal.
Our nation wasn't established on compromises and opinions, but on self evident and unalienable truths. Denying those truths was a cause for war.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Or we can open the borders, tear down the fence, and tell the border guards to do something better with their time. What's the point in not allowing people to come here? Assuming the come here which they do, they have/should follow our laws. I don't see what the big deal is. What's the difference between me taking a 1 year long vacation in canada (i don't know why I would want to) and just living there for the rest of my life? If I don't hurt anybody what makes the difference whether I'm a citizen or not? I'm not really sure I understand the argument unless it is "we can't let those dirty brown people over here because they ......take our jobs.....are ugly....buy houses....buy stuff......" Can somebody give me a decent argument to close the borders? If people come here and follow our laws I don't think there should be much to bitch about.

When our Founders were desperate for better lives, they didn't run off to Cuba to work at better jobs. The Cuban people also desired to improve their lives while working as little as possible.
Okay, there is a decent argument.
To be a nation, we have to make ourselves care about it. We have to will ourselves to do the things necessary to survive. Okay, there is another decent argument.
Mexico is one of the worst tyrannies in the world. Okay, there is another decent argument.
Mexicans need to earn the right to be free. They have a culture of celebrating the tyranny that persecutes them. Okay, there is another argument.
Our ancestors didn't die working to establish this nation's work place just so a lot of fat Washingtonians can sell it off to the highest bidder. Indeed, far more Americans have died working for this nation than have died fighting for it. So, once again, we need to make ourselves care about this nation. We have lightning in a bottle and we are just giving it away. This nation isn't great just because some fat Washingtonians say that it is. There are many special things about this nation that they could care less about.

 

[muzzled dogg]

Ignore the border

The threat comes from within

 

[CaptUSA]

Mexicans need to earn the right to be free.

And therein lies your problem. Privileges are earned, rights are endowed. Everyone already has the right to be free. It's just that you don't want them to have the privilege that you have (or used to have) - A government that recognizes that you already have those rights.

 

[muzzled dogg]

Gotta rep it

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Someone has a very limited viewpoint of what liberty is...

First off, your rights are granted to you by your Creator (or simply by the fact that you are human, if you don't believe in a Creator) not by the government. So then, that means that these "illegals" you speak of also have those same rights. Life, Liberty, Property, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I can fully understand the problems you are facing in a border state, but you want to attack the symptom of the problem instead of the problem itself. Let me give you 3 things to end this problem:

End the Drug War
End the welfare state
Enforce private ownership and property rights

Do these things, and the problem of illegal immigration goes away on its own. Liberty is the solution to every problem, not more force.

Liberty for the sake of liberty is no better than slavery. Indeed, the freeth did not set me true as that is nothing more than blabberings from Washingtonian gentlemen. No! As the Almighty declared, it was the Truth that set me free! This means I am free today not because of any political manipulations, but because my ancestors worked out certain self evident and unalienable truths within themselves.
Once again, if a Mexican desires to fight against tyranny for the sake of the Mexican people, then, after a lot of prayer, I might decide to volunteer to fight along side them.
Please, we can't understand anything from a distance happening in other states. Thinking you can do anything for my state is like thinking you can drive my vehicle from a distance by the use of a cell phone. Most of the fires that we have in the individual states aren't a result of nature, but a result of states having to call on the Washingtonians in matters concerning how we should put them out.
See, we are different. I start off confessing that I am a tyrant. Indeed, as a Christian, I am a sinner. So, as a tyrant, it is not a matter of how to govern as that is a given. My job is to discipline myself and pray to govern as little as possible. In every culture, it is customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden. To keep it always seated and beneath the table, so to speak.

 

[CaptUSA]

Liberty for the sake of liberty is no better than slavery. Indeed, the freeth did not set me true as that is nothing more than blabberings from mad Washingtonian gentlemen. No! As the Almight declared, it was the Truth that set me free! This means I am free today not because of any political manipulation, but because my ancestors worked out certain self evident and unalienable truths within themselves.
Once again, if a Mexican desires to fight against tyranny for the sake of the Mexican people, then, after a lot of prayer, I might decide to volunteer to fight along side them.
Please, we can't understand anything from a distance happening in other states. Thinking you can do anything for my state is like thinking you can drive my vehicle from a distance by the use of a cell phone. Most of the fires that we have in the individual states aren't a result of nature, but a result of states having to call the Washingtonians on matters of how to put them out.
See, we are different. I start off confessing that I am a tyrant. Indeed, as a Christian, I am a sinner. So, as a tyrant, it is not a matter of how to govern as that is a given. My job is to discipline myself and pray to govern as little as possible. In every culture, it is customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden. To keep it always seated and beneath the table, so to speak.

 

[flightlesskiwi]

Indeed, as a Christian, I am a sinner. So, as a tyrant, it is not a matter of how to govern as that is a given. My job is to discipline myself and pray to govern as little as possible. In every culture, it is customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden. To keep it always seated and beneath the table, so to speak.

i very faintly see what point you are trying to make. (?)

Indeed, as a Christian, I am a sinner.

but, for clarity: this statement makes me think that you believe that because you are a christian, you are a sinner. care to maybe change your wording?

In every culture, it is customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden. To keep it always seated and beneath the table, so to speak.

in every culture, it's customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden, eh?? i have a lot of problems with that statement, but i'll pick on this: that's a massive claim. care to back it up?

i'm seriously not trying to nitpick on you-- but your statements are so nebulous that i have no idea what point, exactly, you are trying to make. i'm trying, trust me.

you may view this a mental weakness on my behalf, which is fine, but if i can't understand you, then maybe you should consider that others can't understand you, either.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

And therein lies your problem. Privileges are earned, rights are endowed. Everyone already has the right to be free. It's just that you don't want them to have the privilege that you have (or used to have) - A government that recognizes that you already have those rights.

No. A natural right is endowed as it reduces down like DnA. A civil right is not endowed.
In other words, the only way to make a tyrant behave him or herself is with the declaration of the Truth. So, this means the Truth is the ultimate power. In comparison, tyranny thinks they weld the ultimate power because they can move things around by way of manipulation. But this power is a false one.
Problems arise when tyrants become drunk on this false power as then they can't perceive their consciences to follow after them. It is during this time that war becomes necessary.
Step back and think about this for a second. Let's say a mutual decision is made by all to create life. Well, being the Almighty, the Lord is going to understand immediately the deception involved in the creative process. While the rest of creation thought naturally that there would need to be some kind of manipulation involved in the process, God understood that the only thing needed would be the Truth. Therefore, God created life by the act of his death. In doing so, He opened Himself up fully revealing the Truth. This is the real reason life exists.
As the Truth is unapproachable just as the Father is unapproachable, our Founders instead had to formulate certain truths by the use of natural law.

 

[CaptUSA]

Uncle Emanuel, please read my signature. You seem to be a religious man; Bastiat had some very keen words on liberty and God.

You want to use force to correct the problem of illegal immigration. I'm suggesting to you that it is better to use liberty. And if you truly understand God, you should understand that proposing solutions other than liberty, which some would call God's will, is a denial of the God you seem to hold so dear.

Also, please read John locke. I think he may be right up your alley, but you have to take some steps back from your desires and accept freedom.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

i very faintly see what point you are trying to make. (?)

but, for clarity: this statement makes me think that you believe that because you are a christian, you are a sinner. care to maybe change your wording?

Back up what claim? If I am the husband, I can either choose to express my authority or to not express it. It is my will to do so. So, if I choose to will that authority over fully to my wife, then that is my decision. In other words, there isn't any reason for me to do anything. I don't even have to eat or drink. Instead, I can take my food and give it to the poorest of souls living on the street and under the bridge.

in every culture, it's customary to teach each young man to keep his authority hidden, eh?? i have a lot of problems with that statement, but i'll pick on this: that's a massive claim. care to back it up?

i'm seriously not trying to nitpick on you-- but your statements are so nebulous that i have no idea what point, exactly, you are trying to make. i'm trying, trust me.

you may view this a mental weakness on my behalf, which is fine, but if i can't understand you, then maybe you should consider that others can't understand you, either.

As most don't understand the Founding Fathers, as they are blinded by such secondary means as "freedom" and "responsibility," they certainly aren't going to understand my broad and general education.

 

[Kade]

In order to secure the border of my Texas as a state belonging to the United States of America, as the Washingtonians no longer have the will to protect us (and as this is how the Roman Empire fell apart eventually), it will become necessary for the people of both Mexico and the United States to invade over the border into Mexico to fight against tyranny.

A cure.


Also, the reasons for the decline of the Roman Empire are so complicated that no historian would dare sum it up in a single sentence.

 

[flightlesskiwi]

As most don't understand the Founding Fathers, as they are blinded by such secondary means as "freedom" and "responsibility," they certainly aren't going to understand my broad and general education.

sooo... what is the primary?

broad and general doth not a point make.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Uncle Emanuel, please read my signature. You seem to be a religious man; Bastiat had some very keen words on liberty and God.

You want to use force to correct the problem of illegal immigration. I'm suggesting to you that it is better to use liberty. And if you truly understand God, you should understand that proposing solutions other than liberty, which some would call God's will, is a denial of the God you seem to hold so dear.

Also, please read John locke. I think he may be right up your alley, but you have to take some steps back from your desires and accept freedom.

The Almighty is beyond being shrewd and brilliant. In fact, with the Apostle Paul, he solved our problems immediately. To defeat evil, God took the worst tyrant to ever live, worse than even Adolf Hitler even, and transformed him over to our Chrisitan side as His chosen vessel.
So, they can be quite special the things written by the Apostle Paul.

 

[mport1]

What it will take is allowing private ownership of land, and ending the welfare state.

Agreed. Let's stop asking the government to infringe on property rights.

 

[flightlesskiwi]

The Almighty is beyond being shrewd and brilliant. In fact, with the Apostle Paul, he solved our problems immediately. To defeat evil, God took the worst tyrant to ever live, worse than even Adolf Hitler even, and transformed him over to our Chrisitan side as His chosen vessel.
So, they can be quite special the things written by the Apostle Paul.

Evil was defeated in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Son of God come in the flesh.

Paul was a tyrant to those who would follow Christ before he relented his will to Christ's, yes. After that, he was a servant by which God spread his new covenant message of grace (faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection alone is sufficient for many things, namely salvation 1 Cor. 15:1-4) to the Gentiles. We are told to follow Paul because Paul is following Christ.

but i digress....

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

sooo... what is the primary?

broad and general doth not a point make.

Okay, in a nut shell.
First off, the use of natural law as a scientific process differed from the use of the modern process of theory. Natural law established a metaphysical reality by reducing to certain truths. In comparison, modern science has attempted to weed out every aspect dealing with metaphysics.
As the Truth is impossible to understand, our Founders did the next best thing by reducing to certain truths.
In using the process of natural law, it is necessary to deal with conclusions on two levels of the analytical and the tautological. As terms were reduced down to become undeniable, paradoxically, such conclusions ended up being incomprehensible as well. So, an analysis of the conclusions was needed to help explain the conclusion in such a way that is couldn't be misunderstood, misconstrued, or misinterpreted.
This ushered in the need for linguistics.
In dealing with the problem of a king seeing clear self evident truths but simply denying them , our Founders reduced them on the unalienble level to the conscience, heart and soul. This became something bipartisan. Because the rightful king did not see the self evident truths unalienably in his human conscience, he was deemed a tyrant and divorced.
When Jesus reduced his Will to man, mankind became the existential purpose of God. Therefore, every natural law became submissive and secondary to the political one declared by our Founding Fathers.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Agreed. Let's stop asking the government to infringe on property rights.

But we already own all property and all wealth by natural law.
Look, being disadvantaged, in choosing to compromise from such a weak position, we'll lose everything eventually.

Look at it this way.

We proclaim to tyranny that we the people own all property and wealth by natural law.
Tyranny accepts these truths and offers to compromise by doing something by way of legislation, administration, and judication.
We accept this offer benefiting ourselves temporarily, but cheating the generations of future posteriety within us.
We lose.

Or . . .

We proclaim the truths regarding our natural right to ownership of all property and wealth.
Tyranny offers to compromise us by doing something.
We say no.
We win.

Instead, we hold tyranny to having to suffer a greater penalty under a higher judgement one day. As the Truth is sufficient and as tyranny can only be controlled by perceiving its conscience, then the light needs to be such that it even shines through all the drunkeness and the sickness caused by the many years of being deceived by and following after a false power.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

A cure.


Also, the reasons for the decline of the Roman Empire are so complicated that no historian would dare sum it up in a single sentence.

What is Formal-Culture?
In answering this question, one first has to determine if such a thing exists as an informal culture. Indeed, in past history, we all shared an informal culture called tyranny (the cruel business of pimping and whoring).
To advance away from this informal culture of a master class and a slave class, a social contract has been formulated between the commoner subordinate people and the tyranny necessary to rule over them.
The condemned Socrates proved clearly that the mind of a slave child could learn to advance if taught by a serving kind of teacher (Socrates referred to himself as a mid-wife philosopher).
Socrates begat Plato, Plato begat Aristotle.
Jesus the Almighty blessed the state (unless there is any doubt).
Later, John Locke and Rousseau amongst many others recovered this ancient blessing.
So that brings us up to the present day.
Our Formal-Culture is not something we are born with, but is one that we adopt. As we throw off the lessor culture of tyranny in our past, we take on a new one based on a foundation established by natural law. As the Truth is unapproachable and, thus, impossible to know, our Founders established this new natural law on certain self evident and unalienable truths.