What effect would a PA win have?

[snpage]

3. I Just recieved word that the campaign is cutting off funding to pa. I also hear they are closing the alexandria office 3 weeks before our primary. Thanks guys.

Perfect time for the grass roots to kick in if this is the case.

 

[nodope0695]

I want to know the reason too. What possibly could they do with the remaining money that would be a better use then in pa? I wish i never donated a cent to this campaign.

I'm starting to regret all the money I donated too...NONE of it seems to have gone for winning. Seems all it was spent on is the bloated salaries of the inept campaign staff, and mailers to people who ALREADY support RP. Woulda been nice to see some comercials on national tv networks...the RP's advisors and campaign staff dropped the ball, and they are the sole responsibilty should we ultimately lose.

 

[brandon]

and I'm looking at what we got, to make a choice between the lesser of 3 evils ... which I think is Barack Obama.

lol, It figures you would support Obama.
I would prefer you and your childish rantings leave the board, but if you insist on staying, answer this. What makes Obama the lesser of three evils? In my opinion he is the greater of three evils.

All three candidates have the same positions on

1. Foriegn policy (all consistantly vote for every single war appropriations bill, and have never voted once to sugest they were unhappy with our foreign policy),

2. all three are against civil liberties (They all voted for the patriot act and other similar measures)

3. they all want to continue the war on drugs (even though obama used to be a user, maybe he should turn himself in and serve some jail time)

4. They all want government to take an ever larger role in our lives.

The only notable place where the platforms differ is that Obama has by far the highest spending plan of the three candidates, making him the greater of three evils. If I were to vote for the lesser of three evils, it would have to be clinton. But I wont, because the lesser of three evils is still evil, and why would someone support evil?

 

[robert4rp08]

I suppose Hillary or McCain would make a better choice, then?

Sorry, but you only have 3 electable choices this election, whether you like it or not. There is no Choice D that is electable.

Of those 3, he is the lesser of 3 evils. And I am not throwing away my vote to put McCain or Clinton in office. If it comes down to Hillary and McCain, I don't know what I'll do. I haven't figured out who's worse in that pair.

A vote for any of those 3 is a vote of approval for status quo politics. Don't be a lemming.

 

[brandon]

It's not whining. It's trying to sink into the heads of the rest of you, who caused no dent whatsoever in the Primaries, that where as what you are doing is admirable, will not have any effect whatsoever on things in this country.

I don't recall ever saying I had any more power than you, but it is obvious to me that you guys with your talk of "taking over the GOP" yadda yadda yadda ... are no where near as big as you think you are. Rather you come across as a group of people with good intentions, but unrealistic expectations ... and very big mouths ... which have done nothing but turn off voters. It's time to be brought back down to Planet Earth.

No dent at all in the primaries? Who the hell do you think your kidding, and who are you working for? Look around at how many hundreds of thousands of people have woken up to the message of liberty. Most of these people were apathetic or didnt know the message prior to this campaign.

Most recently, look at missouri where it appears we are going to have about half the delegates at the state convention. The GOP in missouri is "running scared." We are "taking it over." There is nothing "Make believe" about unseating the republican chairman in the largest county in missouri and replacing him with a Ron Paul Republican new to the party. This is "taking over the party.", which for some reason you think is only a grandiose delusion.

This is happening all over the country. You dont seem to realize this for some reason though.

I can tell you were one of the internet-only supporters the MSM always ranted about. If you actually got involved with real life supporters you would realize this forum only represents a tiny fraction of the support for Ron Paul. If you are one of those people who loves to bitch about politics but your actual work to change it stops at casting a vote for a candidate you think will win, that's fine. Just please stop trying to crush the spirits of people who are working to affect real change.

In real life, we are becomming a real force within the GOP, and yes, you might even say "taking it over."

 

[justatrey]

If 57 congressional district delegates are directly elected by primary voters, how can we get a majority, or even close to half of the delegates?

I haven't seen any recent polls here in PA, but when they stopped polling we were at or below 5%. Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but to me optimistic would be hoping for something like 10%. I just hope we're not setting ourselves up for a big dissapointment. Also keep in mind PA usually votes similarly to Ohio.

 

[Midnight77]

In real life, we are becoming a real force within the GOP, and yes, you might even say "taking it over."

Dream on, cowboy. Come back and see me in 4 years and see what progress you made. And no, you haven't caused a dent in the Primaries. I'm glad to see we did well in the Nevada Caucus, but that was really the extent. New Hampshire, where our hopes were high, was an absolute complete and total embarrassment. No, you are clearly not as big as you think you are. But that's fine. Some people wake up before others do. I know I did.

And it's a shame. As I agree with Dr. Paul on just about everything. I don't agree with where he stands on the Death Penalty, but that is trivial in the broader scope of things.

And as far as your remarks about Obama goes, who would you consider to be the lesser of those 3 evils, then ... if you think he is the Greatest of the 3? You think McCain or Clinton would make better choices than him?

Just out of curiosity, if you had to pick one since those are the only electable choices at this point, who would you pick?

 

[runderwo]

As I agree with Dr. Paul on just about everything.

You may agree, but you don't believe.

Lack of belief and associated action renders your agreement moot. Mere agreement does not effect change in that direction.

 

[Midnight77]

You may agree, but you don't believe.

Lack of belief and associated action renders your agreement moot. Mere agreement does not effect change in that direction.

Because believing in something that is only ideological in scope, won't get you very far.

Your hope is that we can "wake up the world one person at a time" and spread the message of freedom and liberty. That's not going to happen. It is going to take a major event to take place to "wake up the public" in the droves you want. Canvassing, going door to door, what did that really accomplish this election? It didn't cause a dent in the Primaries, like I said.

And like Rand Paul stated, you need the constant attention of the Media. People are too busy in their day to day lives to pay attention to politics to the length that the typical Ron Paul supporter does. To them, it's about working 9-5, spending an hour going home in rush hour, having dinner, helping the kids with homework, watch an hour of television, then off to bed. On the weekends, it's about cleaning the house, watching sports, and relaxing.

People just don't care enough about politics. So when supporters like you, go knocking on their door, trying to spread RP's message, it goes in one ear and out the other, because THEY DON'T CARE. And that is the sad truth. You aren't going to make a difference in the lives of these people ... and they ARE the majority. But the problem is that they like to vote, as well, when they aren't making informed decisions. They rely on Media since their lives are so busy. And you aren't going to overcome this problem. Something major needs to happen in this country to wake the public up, and bring everyone together.

What you are doing is noble ... but will not cause a dent in anything in the long run.

 

[Catatonic]

Because believing in something that is only ideological in scope, won't get you very far.

Your hope is that we can "wake up the world one person at a time" and spread the message of freedom and liberty. That's not going to happen. It is going to take a major event to take place to "wake up the public" in the droves you want. Canvassing, going door to door, what did that really accomplish this election? It didn't cause a dent in the Primaries, like I said.

And like Rand Paul stated, you need the constant attention of the Media. People are too busy in their day to day lives to pay attention to politics to the length that the typical Ron Paul supporter does. To them, it's about working 9-5, spending an hour going home in rush hour, having dinner, helping the kids with homework, watch an hour of television, then off to bed. On the weekends, it's about cleaning the house, watching sports, and relaxing.

People just don't care enough about politics. So when supporters like you, go knocking on their door, trying to spread RP's message, it goes in one ear and out the other, because THEY DON'T CARE. And that is the sad truth. You aren't going to make a difference in the lives of these people ... and they ARE the majority. But the problem is that they like to vote, as well, when they aren't making informed decisions. They rely on Media since their lives are so busy. And you aren't going to overcome this problem. Something major needs to happen in this country to wake the public up, and bring everyone together.

What you are doing is noble ... but will not cause a dent in anything in the long run.

So, working for change won't change anything, but voting for more of the same will? George Orwell must be rolling in his grave right now. You're going to fit in real well in Obama's camp.

 

[Midnight77]

So, working for change won't change anything, but voting for more of the same will? George Orwell must be rolling in his grave right now. You're going to fit in real well in Obama's camp.

No, I voted for Ron in the Primaries. And he barely registered a blip here in California.

As far as the General Election goes, is Ron Paul running in the General Election? No, he isn't. So I can't vote for him.

And if you want to say, write him in ... realistically this won't accomplish anything except to give votes to someone else.

So at this point, I have to examine the candidates, and change my thought process ... whether I want to or not. I have to look and determine who would be the lesser of the 3 remaining candidates left.

I know what I am getting with McCain and I don't like it.

I don't trust Hillary, at all ... who is a Neo-Socialist, supported by Neocons like Rupert Murdoch.

So that brings me to Barack.

You guys have to understand that Ron Paul, nor anyone like him, is going to be in the General Election. That is a fact that you have to deal with.

I get the impression from a lot of his supporters, that they don't even realize that the train took off without them, and they were sadly left behind. Things are moving forward in this country, whether you like it or not. It's time to get out of the phases of Grief and Denial that many are still left in on this Forum, and join the rest of the country in deciding who of the remaining candidates left that are electable, is going to become President.

 

[runderwo]

Because believing in something that is only ideological in scope, won't get you very far.

You have to believe before you can act.

Your hope is that we can "wake up the world one person at a time" and spread the message of freedom and liberty.

No, you're wrong. You've sold your soul to democracy. I have not. Leadership is what it takes. Not sitting on your duff, whining on a forum that things aren't going your way.

Something major needs to happen in this country to wake the public up, and bring everyone together.

I don't want to bring everyone together. I don't want to bring those together who would use the power of the state to oppress. This is the danger of an unexamined faith in democracy.

What you are doing is noble ... but will not cause a dent in anything in the long run.

Why are you here? What are you trying to convince me of? That I should not publish? That I should not lead through example in my community or in the party? That I should not run for elected office?

This is the inanity of your position. Not only do you not do these things, but you tell those of us doing them that we're wasting our time, because you lack the wisdom and the self-respect to do them yourself.

 

[Catatonic]

No, I voted for Ron in the Primaries. And he barely registered a blip here in California.

As far as the General Election goes, is Ron Paul running in the General Election? No, he isn't. So I can't vote for him.

And if you want to say, write him in ... realistically this won't accomplish anything except to give votes to someone else.

So at this point, I have to examine the candidates, and change my thought process ... whether I want to or not. I have to look and determine who would be the lesser of the 3 remaining candidates left.

I know what I am getting with McCain and I don't like it.

I don't trust Hillary, at all ... who is a Neo-Socialist, supported by Neocons like Rupert Murdoch.

So that brings me to Barack.

You guys have to understand that Ron Paul, nor anyone like him, is going to be in the General Election. That is a fact that you have to deal with.

I get the impression from a lot of his supporters, that they don't even realize that the train took off without them, and they were sadly left behind. Things are moving forward in this country, whether you like it or not. It's time to get out of the phases of Grief and Denial that many are still left in on this Forum, and join the rest of the country in deciding who of the remaining candidates left that are electable, is going to become President.

I understand your position, but I disagree. Playing their game is what got us into this mess. There is not enough of a difference between obama/hillary/mccain for me to care which of them wins. We're screwed regardless.

You'll say that if one is even slightly better than the other two then we should support that person, and that makes sense on the surface, but I'd rather send a message to the establishment that while I am pissed off and disillusioned with their fraud of an election process, I'm not apathetic enough to not vote all together.

I don't believe that writting in Ron Paul, even though he'll get .01% of the vote, is a waste. Even if that one vote means the difference between swaying the win for hillary/mccain/obama or whoever. If everyone that decided to vote for the lesser evil like you were to take their vote seriously as a representation of who they support rather than political pandering, Ron still probably wouldn't win, but it would send a clear message and have an impact on future elections. This will never happen though, because as much as we'd like to think otherwise, sheep aren't going to stop waddling happily into the slaughter house on their own.

And, if I was going to support the lesser of 3 evils, I'd be backing Hillary. Sorry, Obama's economic plans are more inane than Hillary's, and Hillary is more maleable to public opinion. He's also more full of crap and a better liar.

 

[brandon]

Dream on, cowboy. Come back and see me in 4 years and see what progress you made. And no, you haven't caused a dent in the Primaries. I'm glad to see we did well in the Nevada Caucus, but that was really the extent. New Hampshire, where our hopes were high, was an absolute complete and total embarrassment. No, you are clearly not as big as you think you are. But that's fine. Some people wake up before others do. I know I did.

And it's a shame. As I agree with Dr. Paul on just about everything. I don't agree with where he stands on the Death Penalty, but that is trivial in the broader scope of things.

And as far as your remarks about Obama goes, who would you consider to be the lesser of those 3 evils, then ... if you think he is the Greatest of the 3? You think McCain or Clinton would make better choices than him?

Just out of curiosity, if you had to pick one since those are the only electable choices at this point, who would you pick?

Jesus christ, are you mentally handicapped or do you just read what you want to read? I just explained how we recently had huge successes in the missouri caucuses and you choose to totally ignore that i said that, quote a different part of the same post, and reply with saying nevada are the only caucuses we did good in. What the hell is wrong with you?

Furthermore, in the same paragraph where I said Obama is the greater of three evils I said clinton would be the least. Learn to read.

Im done with you. Please leave this thread, you are not wanted.

 

[brandon]

If 57 congressional district delegates are directly elected by primary voters, how can we get a majority, or even close to half of the delegates?

I haven't seen any recent polls here in PA, but when they stopped polling we were at or below 5%. Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but to me optimistic would be hoping for something like 10%. I just hope we're not setting ourselves up for a big dissapointment. Also keep in mind PA usually votes similarly to Ohio.

You are misunderstanding the process. The delegates are elected seperately from the votes for the presidential candidate, and have nothing to do with the other. For example, on the ballot it will say

Candidates for Delegate

xxxx xxx
xxx xxxxxx
Brandon Yates
xxxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxx xxxxxxx



It is not going to say "ron Paul" next to the delegates name, and the general public has no idea what delegate supports what.

 

[Midnight77]

Jesus christ, are you mentally handicapped or do you just read what you want to read? I just explained how we recently had huge successes in the missouri caucuses and you choose to totally ignore that i said that, quote a different part of the same post, and reply with saying nevada are the only caucuses we did good in. What the hell is wrong with you?

Furthermore, in the same paragraph where I said Obama is the greater of three evils I said clinton would be the least. Learn to read.

Im done with you. Please leave this thread, you are not wanted.

Huge successes in the Missouri caucuses? I thought Missouri had a Primary, not a Caucus ... on February 5th, to be precise.

http://content.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/results.aspx?sp=mo

It may not be wanted, but that is typical. You don't like to hear reality and you don't like hearing the truth. Instead, you would rather dance around in the Land of Make Believe.

Why don't you PM me and we can continue this conversation off the board, to not take away from the thread? You know what? Never mind, tough guy. I think I'll PM you.

 

[runderwo]

Huge successes in the Missouri caucuses? I thought Missouri had a Primary, not a Caucus ... on February 5th, to be precise.

It's not an either-or proposition!

 

[Midnight77]

It's not an either-or proposition!

Would you care to explain what you are referring to?

 

[Banana]

Would you care to explain what you are referring to?

Several "primary" states has caucuses as well, which was the case in my state (Washington). This is also true of Texas and Missouri

For my state, Republican split the delegate allocations between the result of primary (49%), and result of caucus (51%). For Democrats in the state, they decided that primary would have no bearings on who gets the delegates at all. With MO and TX, they do caucus for resolutions and selection of delegates. Whether the primary has any bearing, I'm not sure. You'd need to ask someone from MO or TX for clarification on that.

You cannot assume that one state is same as another state; they have different types of hybrid primary/caucus and states that are 100% pure primary or caucus are in small minority, and byzantine rules on how delegates are selected. Therefore, calling states "primary" or "caucus" is very simplistic and you need to dig deeper to understand how this all works out.

As Brandon already explained, they seems to have a separate primary, one for candidates themselves, which McCain won, but this had nothing to do with delegates who will hand him the nomination, which has their own primary; the idea is that if we campaign the PA people to vote for people like Brandon, then he would vote for Paul at national convention. Now, if I understand the system correctly, those folks are randomly drawn and given a order, and people tend to just cross off the first Xth of the ballot because they usually don't know who is for and don't care, so having a high draw is good.

 

[yaz]

No, I voted for Ron in the Primaries. And he barely registered a blip here in California.

As far as the General Election goes, is Ron Paul running in the General Election? No, he isn't. So I can't vote for him.

And if you want to say, write him in ... realistically this won't accomplish anything except to give votes to someone else.

So at this point, I have to examine the candidates, and change my thought process ... whether I want to or not. I have to look and determine who would be the lesser of the 3 remaining candidates left.

I know what I am getting with McCain and I don't like it.

I don't trust Hillary, at all ... who is a Neo-Socialist, supported by Neocons like Rupert Murdoch.

So that brings me to Barack.

You guys have to understand that Ron Paul, nor anyone like him, is going to be in the General Election. That is a fact that you have to deal with.

I get the impression from a lot of his supporters, that they don't even realize that the train took off without them, and they were sadly left behind. Things are moving forward in this country, whether you like it or not. It's time to get out of the phases of Grief and Denial that many are still left in on this Forum, and join the rest of the country in deciding who of the remaining candidates left that are electable, is going to become President.

I'll be voting 3rd party. Why vote for someone who is 100% awful?