What can I say to a socialist that says libertarians don't care about poor people?

[constitutional]

Thanks a lot Brian4Liberty for your insight!

How much did Obama spend on his bid from president?
How many people could he have fed and sheltered for that money?
How can anyone who ask "but what about the children?" even eat a slice of bread before they spend their own incomes on the poor starving children.
If they don't.... then they don't care about the poor people.

Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

 

[Deborah K]

That's his argument. He's saying I don't care about people so I explained that we care for people the most because government makes it worse for poor people, etc.

Anything else I can say to him?

Show him this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvc0tYG_YpA

 

[torchbearer]

Thanks a lot Brian4Liberty for your insight!



Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

If they admit its force, then they admit its a crime.
The next thing you need to do is to take their wallet by force and give their cash and credit card to a homeless guy.
I can't think of a better example.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

In the real world, people do donate (above and beyond what they pay in taxes to the government).

Charity is just another example of something people won't do (as much) if they think that government will take care of it for them. It's the path of least resistence. Once again, Government hinders the motivation to be actively involved in charity. If you want something done right, do it yourself. If you want it done wrong, depend on the government to do it...

 

[georgiaboy]

Thanks a lot Brian4Liberty for your insight!



Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

Look at all the money that is currently given to charitable organizations today. Yes, they can be used as tax deductions, but nonetheless, the tax savings doesn't come close to the actual amount spent in giving to charities. This charitable giving exists in an existing US governmental system that provides for the poor.

Now imagine that 'poof' the government stopped all social programs that provide for the poor. Do you think this would cause an already charitable nation of citizens (see above paragraph) to become more or less charitable?

 

[nbhadja]

Hit him with the "fiat currency+government printing press destroys people's savings so liberals do not care about poor people or any people counter" talk

 

[georgiaboy]

On a personal note, if you are already a charitable giver, and you are also a libertarian, then there's no better argument than pointing to yourself as an example of how libertarian and charity go together.

 

[Mini-Me]

Thanks a lot Brian4Liberty for your insight!



Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

On this particular subject, it may help to challenge his basic assumptions by showing him pages 74 and 75 of The Revolution: A Manifesto.

 

[Mini-Me]

If they admit its force, then they admit its a crime.
The next thing you need to do is to take their wallet by force and give their cash and credit card to a homeless guy.
I can't think of a better example.

Team up with a few people, take half of the money out of his wallet, give it to a homeless guy, and then say that he lost to a majority vote.

 

[OferNave]

Here's a good socialism refutation.

Helping the Poor: Analyzing a Banana Republic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySOgWb9PI-k

 

[dannno]

On this particular subject, it may help to challenge his basic assumptions by showing him pages 74 and 75 of The Revolution: A Manifesto.

76 and 77 VERY IMPORTANT to this topic as well!! (though I mentioned them earlier in the thread)

 

[MusoSpuso]

That's his argument. He's saying I don't care about people so I explained that we care for people the most because government makes it worse for poor people, etc.

Anything else I can say to him?

Well first I'd start by asking for specific examples.

Ask him to define his terms: how specifically do libertarians not care about poor people?

 

[Krugerrand]

Show him this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvc0tYG_YpA

EXCELLENT! thanks for sharing.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

That's his argument. He's saying I don't care about people so I explained that we care for people the most because government makes it worse for poor people, etc.

Anything else I can say to him?

Call him a moron. How did the Soviet Union help the poor? Made everyone poor.

 

[Young Paleocon]

give him a copy of The Law

Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all.

We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain. "-Frederic Bastiat

 

[Carole]

That's his argument. He's saying I don't care about people so I explained that we care for people the most because government makes it worse for poor people, etc.

Anything else I can say to him?

Tell him the government wants to give him a handout and keep him poor, while people who really care for him will give him the tools he needs to plant his garden, or help him learn the skills to make his own way. That is true giving and caring. :0

You might also mention the bailout of Wall Street.

BTW all those billions the government "gives" out are printed and create inflation. There is hug waste as it trickles down to the recipient after paying all thos bureaucrats along the way. The inflation it causes makes the poor person pay more for goods and services, therby, hurting the poor person in yet another way. Cost of living and inflation eat up the handout and also serves to make the middle class more poor. What will happen when the middle class can no longer afford to pay? They will also be poor.

So socialism brings people down, tells them they are failures, and NEVER EVER builds people up nor economically betters their situation. It is a losing strategy for human beings and a winning strategy for politicians/government/lobbyists--all the PTB.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

What can I say to a socialist that says libertarians don't care about poor people?

Socialist - you don't care about poor people
Libertarians - so, whats your point?

 

[Carole]

Thanks a lot Brian4Liberty for your insight!



Voluntary basis you say? Then people would not donate. Same goes for a voluntary income tax. People simply won't follow through, people are self-fish and greedy. These 'socialists' basically have no faith in mankind and this is the argument they use against me.

^ What would your response be? I'm trying to get better at educating people, please help.

Voluntary donations have always been well supported in America. However, when we have the government stealing from us to forcicbly support socialism,that leaves us with much less to voluntarily donate.

 

[mrwiizrd]

That's his argument. He's saying I don't care about people so I explained that we care for people the most because government makes it worse for poor people, etc.

Anything else I can say to him?

this is the best ammo I've found so far, Dr. Ruwart makes a VERY compelling argument:

http://www.ruwart.com/poverty.lpn.wpd.html

 

[Carole]

Show him this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvc0tYG_YpA

Well done.