jeff_from_VA
Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2007
- Messages
- 141
My children are home schooled.
What are some people's problem with Ron Paul supporting Homeschooling?
- Thread starter Warrior_of_Freedom
- Start date
I didn't read anything here past the second post, because i've seen way to many of these topics. Do not think for a second that Homeschoolers are less capable socially than people who go to public school. Homeschooled people happen to be some of the most tolerant people I know. Parents help the children to learn social skills, whether it be through neighborhood effort or inter-family social efforts. If the homeschooled child is confined to his house and has two parents, no siblings, no cousins, and no friends, then he would be a bubble boy. Most parents are smarter than a lot of you give credit.
In my opinion (judging from what I have observed), Homeschooled children get more of an advantage than ones going through public school. They get to focus more on their weaknesses rather than finish early in some areas and get left behind in others. Private schooled kids may be even worse off than public school kids. Private schools don't even need to have teachers with certificates or degrees in order to teach.
Many public schools, thanks to Bush and other neo-cons in the house and Senate, now focus on giving kids good grades without judging their work the way they should. It's unfair to a lot of people, and attributes to the (for lack of better terms) illiteracy rate. I went through college classes with men and women having a hard time to read out loud and know the meaning to simple words. While it is true that you can "supercharge" your social life at public school, you learn the wrong social skills a lot of the time. Teacher will let their students at these schools slide when they perform stupid or obstructive actions. If my kid ever did that and I was homeschooling him, I wouldn't stand for that kind of behavior.
In my opinion (judging from what I have observed), Homeschooled children get more of an advantage than ones going through public school. They get to focus more on their weaknesses rather than finish early in some areas and get left behind in others. Private schooled kids may be even worse off than public school kids. Private schools don't even need to have teachers with certificates or degrees in order to teach.
Many public schools, thanks to Bush and other neo-cons in the house and Senate, now focus on giving kids good grades without judging their work the way they should. It's unfair to a lot of people, and attributes to the (for lack of better terms) illiteracy rate. I went through college classes with men and women having a hard time to read out loud and know the meaning to simple words. While it is true that you can "supercharge" your social life at public school, you learn the wrong social skills a lot of the time. Teacher will let their students at these schools slide when they perform stupid or obstructive actions. If my kid ever did that and I was homeschooling him, I wouldn't stand for that kind of behavior.
Last edited:
dreicher
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 161
My wife and I home-schooled our kids up until this year. It was a wonderful experience for us and them but didn't fit our family for this year. I would encourage anyone with young kids to explore their options.
In three years of home-schooling, our kids were much more socialized and able to adapt and interact with children of a much more diverse age range. They were exposed through "park days", "play groups" and "field trips" to kids of a wide variety of ages, socio-economic backgrounds, faiths and talents. Spending time with older children in a peer setting raised their maturity level and, I feel, spending time with younger kids helped as well.
We are a Christian family, but chose a charter home-school with an entirely "secular" curriculum. Contrasted with the public school they are in now...they actually had Science, History and Art more than 1 hour per week - it's ridiculous. We chose a school that used the K-12 curriculum (www.k12.org) after a lot of research. It's a rigorous program, but very immersive and integrates internet-based learning and multimedia that allowed them see the same information in different ways.
There are K-12 schools throughout the US and, being charter, all the books and materials are paid for just like public school - they receive the stipend that a public school would receive for your child. They even provided a computer for each of our kids and paid for our internet access. We also had a teacher that kept us on track and was there to help when necessary - there is nothing quite as funny as going to a parent-teacher conference to tell your kids teacher how they're doing.
Bottom line, even though it was only a few years - we were able to give our kids a huge academic advantage before sending them to public school, as well as let them learn in a "safe" environment without external pressures. Unfortunately, being parent and teacher is not easy and it's hard to have to be "on" your kids 24/7.
Anytime the "socializing" thing came up, I would also snap back "I'm not raising socialists - I'm trying to teach my kids to love learning."
In three years of home-schooling, our kids were much more socialized and able to adapt and interact with children of a much more diverse age range. They were exposed through "park days", "play groups" and "field trips" to kids of a wide variety of ages, socio-economic backgrounds, faiths and talents. Spending time with older children in a peer setting raised their maturity level and, I feel, spending time with younger kids helped as well.
We are a Christian family, but chose a charter home-school with an entirely "secular" curriculum. Contrasted with the public school they are in now...they actually had Science, History and Art more than 1 hour per week - it's ridiculous. We chose a school that used the K-12 curriculum (www.k12.org) after a lot of research. It's a rigorous program, but very immersive and integrates internet-based learning and multimedia that allowed them see the same information in different ways.
There are K-12 schools throughout the US and, being charter, all the books and materials are paid for just like public school - they receive the stipend that a public school would receive for your child. They even provided a computer for each of our kids and paid for our internet access. We also had a teacher that kept us on track and was there to help when necessary - there is nothing quite as funny as going to a parent-teacher conference to tell your kids teacher how they're doing.
Bottom line, even though it was only a few years - we were able to give our kids a huge academic advantage before sending them to public school, as well as let them learn in a "safe" environment without external pressures. Unfortunately, being parent and teacher is not easy and it's hard to have to be "on" your kids 24/7.
Anytime the "socializing" thing came up, I would also snap back "I'm not raising socialists - I'm trying to teach my kids to love learning."
MayTheRonBeWithYou
Banned
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2007
- Messages
- 2,477
No, they should be taught valid, accepted, peer-reviewed science. I assume you know what the scientific method is? I hope you are teaching it to your kids, and I assume you are. The scientific method is a series of steps a rational person can use to determine the validity of any claim or assertion. EVIDENCE is the key to science, rational thought, and critical thinking.
If someone puts forward a claim - "I played chess with bigfoot yesterday" - then the scientist's first question will always be the same: "Where is the valid evidence?"
I believe in things for which there is evidence. And there is NO valid evidence for any religion, even yours. Children should not be taught these divisive, blood-soaked ancient stories as "fact." It's not fair to the child to be subjected to this type of brainwashing. They are defenseless against it. By brainwashing your children into religion or bigfoot belief or whatever, you cripple and hinder their critical thinking faculties, by basically telling them to believe whatever the "higher authority" tells them to believe. All too often, this leads to societies that are easily steered into wars of aggression against other nations. If your children lack the ability to ask you, "Mommy, where is the valid evidence that Jonah lived in a fish's stomach for three days?" they might not ask their leaders, "Where is the evidence for weapons of mass destruction before you lead us into this war?"
You have every legal right to brainwash your children with dangerous fairytales, and I have every right to comdemn you for it.
I think the bottom line is that parents should be the ones responsible for the education of their kids and not government. Government is monolithic and when it gets something wrong, everyone gets affected. Parents are diverse and the moral nature of humans generally means that most parents in most societies will get the education of their children right.
The idea that homeschooling can lead to the 'brainwashing' of children imposed with religious ideas is a non-starter because the opposite is also true -- that government controlled public education can lead to the brainwashing of children with socialist and atheistic ideas.
In UK public schools, it is mandatory to teach children as young as six about sexuality and sex education in what I think is an inappropriately graphic manner. IMHO, the net result is that children lose their innocence and experiment with sex at an earlier age than they would otherwise do and this is proven by the fact that there are more teenage single mothers in the UK than ever before -- we have the highest numbers in Europe.
Another example: The European Union spends millions on cartoons and animated pamphlets promoting the Union and the EU currency - the euro - in public schools all over Europe. I've seen some of this propaganda in UK schools and there's nothing parents can do about whether they agree about the message or not.
Just recently, a father had to take the UK government to court for funding the distribution of Al Gore's "The Incovenient Truth" in public schools. He successfully argued and won his case that the movie contained a legion of inaccuracies and that government has no business imposing one view point to children without exposing them to the contrary view. In fact, if I recall correctly the judge called it propaganda.
The idea that homeschooling can lead to the 'brainwashing' of children imposed with religious ideas is a non-starter because the opposite is also true -- that government controlled public education can lead to the brainwashing of children with socialist and atheistic ideas.
In UK public schools, it is mandatory to teach children as young as six about sexuality and sex education in what I think is an inappropriately graphic manner. IMHO, the net result is that children lose their innocence and experiment with sex at an earlier age than they would otherwise do and this is proven by the fact that there are more teenage single mothers in the UK than ever before -- we have the highest numbers in Europe.
Another example: The European Union spends millions on cartoons and animated pamphlets promoting the Union and the EU currency - the euro - in public schools all over Europe. I've seen some of this propaganda in UK schools and there's nothing parents can do about whether they agree about the message or not.
Just recently, a father had to take the UK government to court for funding the distribution of Al Gore's "The Incovenient Truth" in public schools. He successfully argued and won his case that the movie contained a legion of inaccuracies and that government has no business imposing one view point to children without exposing them to the contrary view. In fact, if I recall correctly the judge called it propaganda.
dvictr
Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 1,166
wwhy does the federal gov. or you care?
romeshomey
Banned
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 301
The Federal Government has only been involved in our childrens education since 1979. Before that, each state ran their own education departments.
The reason the Fed got involved was because some states funded their schools well and others didn't, they wanted to get involved to centralize the education system, so that all schools nationwide would be teaching the same things, etc....
Problem is, the states that had better education systems before the Fed got involved have no choice but to adhere to the Feds education program, while its hard to say if the Fed getting involved has really helped those areas that were behind in 1979. I would like to see some sort of study done quite possibly.
Personally, my wife and I homeschool both of our children. We tried sending our oldest to public school, but after seeing them hold her back for the 1st two years, we decided to look into alternative education.
Private school was too expensive based on my income and wife wasn't working with our newborn at the time. We looked into some charter schools and alternative schools, but nothing attracted us, so we discovered our states virtual acadamy and our children do quite well.
The only downfall we face is lack of group activities with other children, we have to involve them in other things, which has its advantages and disadvantages.
Personally, my wife and I went to a public school. They didn't do us any good and we can see how our parents and grandparents were taught alot more than we were in school, BEFORE THE FED GOT INVOLVED!!!!
The reason the Fed got involved was because some states funded their schools well and others didn't, they wanted to get involved to centralize the education system, so that all schools nationwide would be teaching the same things, etc....
Problem is, the states that had better education systems before the Fed got involved have no choice but to adhere to the Feds education program, while its hard to say if the Fed getting involved has really helped those areas that were behind in 1979. I would like to see some sort of study done quite possibly.
Personally, my wife and I homeschool both of our children. We tried sending our oldest to public school, but after seeing them hold her back for the 1st two years, we decided to look into alternative education.
Private school was too expensive based on my income and wife wasn't working with our newborn at the time. We looked into some charter schools and alternative schools, but nothing attracted us, so we discovered our states virtual acadamy and our children do quite well.
The only downfall we face is lack of group activities with other children, we have to involve them in other things, which has its advantages and disadvantages.
Personally, my wife and I went to a public school. They didn't do us any good and we can see how our parents and grandparents were taught alot more than we were in school, BEFORE THE FED GOT INVOLVED!!!!
tremendoustie
Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
- Messages
- 6,809
I know this may come as a shocker to your infinitely dispassionate and unbiased mind, but may rational, intelligent people come to the conclusion that God exists for rational, intelligent reasons. I would be thrilled to discuss some of these with you, you can pm me.
I do not find the need to assume that all those who disagree with me do so for irrational reasons, and would never conclude that a person is irrational without first actually talking with that individual about their beliefs and reasoning. I am disappointed that you seem to have this need.
The scientific method is an extremely useful tool at finding scientific truth. I assume here that by "scientific method" we do not mean just rational thinking, but strictly the method based upon repeatable quantifiable observation. The problem comes when people assume that all truth must be scientific. Clearly, it is not only possible, but highly probable that there exists truth which cannot be repeatably, quantifiably measured by our five senses, then communicated. The fallacy comes when one assumes that all truth must fit this narrow category, or one decides to restrict oneself to only that line of inquiry -- without apparently any basis at all for that decision. As an example, perhaps truth can be arrived at purely by human thought. Please explain, without first starting by assuming naturalism, why we should exclude this line of inquiry.
In the end, justifications for expecting that no truth lies outside of this narrow box, or that no pursuit should be given of such truth, start with the assumption of naturalism, and so are circular.
I'll give an example of something I believe to be outside that box. You know that you are conscious -- self aware, but it would be impossible for you to prove this to another person. To them, you could simply be an automata that behaves as if it were conscious -- you are in theory indistinguishable from such an automata by outside observation.
In any case, I am saddened that you would make such broad sweeping assumptions about the irrationality of so many people, even if you disagree, and even if you continue to disagree. I doubt there is anyone in the world that could convince me of a purely mechanical view of the universe, but I certainly do not hold all such people to be irrational. And franky, you speak of starting wars? It is the collective demonization of large groups of people, and the rejection of open minded dialog that most directly leads to war.
It sounds to me like you want to do more than just condemn it.
Look, I'm all for rationality. I am a computer science and mathematics major. Logic is my game. But I think you are violating one of the "fundamentals" of a liberty-loving and tolerant society: I won't infringe on your rights as long as you don't infringe on mine.
If you want to teach your kids to think like you, then you are certainly free to do so. I respect that. But you don't seem to respect others' rights to do the same. It seems like a one-way street for you. You also speak in such broad general OPINIONS as if they were fact. And you use extreme cases to justify your arguments (Satan worshipers? Psh.. come on dude....)
Suppose I had kids and I told them one of Aesop's Fables.. say the Fox and the Grapes. These are imaginary stories that have no evidence of actually happening.
By part of your logic, it's not OK for me to teach my kids this particular story because you can't verify there was a fox, and you have no evidence that the fox tried to get the grapes. And for sure, foxes can't talk so this story must be totally inaccurate and therefore telling it would be doing a disservice to the child and our society as a whole. AND you apparently would condemn me for telling this story to my own child to boot.
Yeah, of course some would say "well, there's some moral to this story, duh," or "it demonstrates a principle of ethics and psychology" to put it secular terms.
But there IS a truth to the story. While the story itself isn't true, it still conveys a truth. So... what's the litmus test here? Did the story have to contain some other character by the name of "Jesus" or "Jonah" or "Jehova" in order for it to be a total lie or myth?
You speak of rationality, but actually I don't follow your logic at all.
Luft97
Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2007
- Messages
- 876
Different things work for different people.. Some people need religion in thier lives and others do not.
For alot of people it gives hope and a stable moral footing to live thier life by. Do you honestly think you are going to convince someone here otherwise?
What if you did and they needed that feeling of hope to keep them from falling off the edge and gave up on life? How would you feel?
The moral of the story is don't knock annother man's religion. People should be able to homeschool for whatever reason they choose.
Most schools today are nothing more than a propoganda camp.
I do not consider myself to be a religious man, but I fully understand the important part it plays in the daily life of so many.
I homeschool four teens, but I am not here to get in the same old argument. I would just like to point one thing out to everyone here, home, public, or private schooling. Please, folks, take it upon YOURSELF to teach your kids constitutional government. Don't leave it up to anyone else, including government schools.
There are DVD constitutional studies programs out there for adults, too. Have some friends over for a weekly pizza and constitution party. This is good for college kids, church groups, or anyone who wants to relieve the winter boredom for awhile.
If you think people are getting this in school, start asking the people around you what the purpose of government is. You might be surprised at how little people know. If you have a chance, ask any of the presidential candidates the same question. I have serious doubts any of them, other than Dr. Paul, would give the correct answer.
It sure would make it easier to spread the message if people understood it! AND...Dr. Paul would win in a landslide.
There are DVD constitutional studies programs out there for adults, too. Have some friends over for a weekly pizza and constitution party. This is good for college kids, church groups, or anyone who wants to relieve the winter boredom for awhile.
If you think people are getting this in school, start asking the people around you what the purpose of government is. You might be surprised at how little people know. If you have a chance, ask any of the presidential candidates the same question. I have serious doubts any of them, other than Dr. Paul, would give the correct answer.
It sure would make it easier to spread the message if people understood it! AND...Dr. Paul would win in a landslide.
Truth Warrior
Banned
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 18,789
<sarcasm>
Gee we sure wouldn't want any of the kiddoes to escape their mandatory institutionalized government sheeple brainwashing schooling indoctrination process, now would we? Where would all of the "good citizens ( sit down, shut up, do as you're told, pay your taxes, vote, don't make waves, don't rock the boat, etc. )" come from?
</sarcasm>
Gee we sure wouldn't want any of the kiddoes to escape their mandatory institutionalized government sheeple brainwashing schooling indoctrination process, now would we? Where would all of the "good citizens ( sit down, shut up, do as you're told, pay your taxes, vote, don't make waves, don't rock the boat, etc. )" come from?
</sarcasm>
FreeTraveler
Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 4,027
Since I have MayTheRonBeWithYou on Ignore, I missed portions of his diatribe. However, let me first, recommend the Ignore feature of the forum, as it has reduced my blood pressure by a good 20 points since I discovered it.
Secondly, I suggest you all take it easy on MayTheRon. It obvious that he was raised fairly recently in the "government" schools, so he's parroting exactly what they wanted him to learn. I think he's probably a fairly good example of what the government wants to achieve with their educational system. He's ill-mannered, uninformed, rude, opinionated, and aggressive, and does a great job of spouting the party line when it comes to education. He is conclusive proof that "Public Education" produces just what they want to produce.
The amazing thing isn't that so many of today's younger adults and youth are the way they are, and are voting for Obama as programmed. The amazing thing is that so many have broken through their programming and are voting for Dr. Paul. Now if we can only help them with their "socialization skills" that have so obviously been neglected.
Secondly, I suggest you all take it easy on MayTheRon. It obvious that he was raised fairly recently in the "government" schools, so he's parroting exactly what they wanted him to learn. I think he's probably a fairly good example of what the government wants to achieve with their educational system. He's ill-mannered, uninformed, rude, opinionated, and aggressive, and does a great job of spouting the party line when it comes to education. He is conclusive proof that "Public Education" produces just what they want to produce.
The amazing thing isn't that so many of today's younger adults and youth are the way they are, and are voting for Obama as programmed. The amazing thing is that so many have broken through their programming and are voting for Dr. Paul. Now if we can only help them with their "socialization skills" that have so obviously been neglected.
pcosmar
Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2007
- Messages
- 54,940
There are a lot of good points and I can add little. I think the most important point is CHOICE.
A member here has some good videos. They are "Must See" on the subject.
STOP ans LOOK
Dismantle Public Education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swl8frWSNEQ
A member here has some good videos. They are "Must See" on the subject.
STOP ans LOOK
Dismantle Public Education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swl8frWSNEQ
hambone1982
Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2007
- Messages
- 292
Exactly. Our public school system seems like something out of 1984.
hawks4ronpaul
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 1,478
People worry that parents will mis-educate children when mis-educating children is the government's job.
http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
May the Ron be with You:
Are you suggesting that the secular humanistic garbage crammed down millions of public school children's throats is not religious in nature?
Neutrality is a myth. It doesn't exist. The state does not own my children, nor should they be allowed to tell me how to educate them.
For the record, I taught in the public schools for years..... It was enough for me to realize that my children would never attend one.
Are you suggesting that the secular humanistic garbage crammed down millions of public school children's throats is not religious in nature?
Neutrality is a myth. It doesn't exist. The state does not own my children, nor should they be allowed to tell me how to educate them.
For the record, I taught in the public schools for years..... It was enough for me to realize that my children would never attend one.
Last edited:
AzNsOuLjAh27
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2008
- Messages
- 225
home schooling is not one of his best points, i still think kids should go to public school. So they can get a girlfreind a live a fufiled life.
Truth Warrior
Banned
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 18,789
Similar threads
