Wesley Snipes Gets Max Sentence

[Zippyjuan]

You would eliminate defense? I don't think that would ever happen. And so I assume you're against Ron Paul's support of a "strong national defense."

Against the Constitution as well.

As for taxes and the Constitution, Article 1 Section 8:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

No mention of what can and cannot be taxed- that is up to Congress. They are given that power right here.

Section 9 does have this bit:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

which was given further clarification via the Sixteenth Amendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

In accordance with the amedment proceedure outlined in the Constitution, it has been fully ratified. There are two ways an amendment can be aproved. The first is to have both Houses of Congress vote in favor of it by at least a two thirds majority and then it is passed on to the states where another two thirds must pass it. This is what occured for the Sixteenth (and so far all other) amendments. The Sixteenth has been aproved by forty two of the fifty states so far- more than exceeding the requirement. Courts have upheld both the amendment and the legality of income taxes.

 

[sratiug]

Against the Constitution as well.

As for taxes and the Constitution, Article 1 Section 8:

No mention of what can and cannot be taxed- that is up to Congress. They are given that power right here.

Section 9 does have this bit:


which was given further clarification via the Sixteenth Amendment:


In accordance with the amedment proceedure outlined in the Constitution, it has been fully ratified. There are two ways an amendment can be aproved. The first is to have both Houses of Congress vote in favor of it by at least a two thirds majority and then it is passed on to the states where another two thirds must pass it. This is what occured for the Sixteenth (and so far all other) amendments. The Sixteenth has been aproved by forty two of the fifty states so far- more than exceeding the requirement. Courts have upheld both the amendment and the legality of income taxes.

And did the amendment have exactly the same wording each time it was voted upon?

 

[IllMortalD]

Unfortunately our court system runs on the basis of precedence. Therefore the logical arguments against paying your taxes do not matter. They are the ones with the power here. This is also true of the 2000 election because it was won in the courts. That means that it can now set precedent for the same actions to take place in another election. I didn't realize that when it happened I was just angry. It was much worse then I thought.

 

[Zippyjuan]

And did the amendment have exactly the same wording each time it was voted upon?

Some used "thee" instead of "the" and some simlar issues, but those were not considered to be different enough to change what was being voted on.
The Supreme Court agreed in Brushaber v. Union Pac. R.R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)
"Do you favor the adoption of the Sixteenth Amendment" was the basic question.
That happened with many of the early amendments.

 

[majinkoola]

Against the Constitution as well.

See Article 1 Section 8.

 

[Danke]

As for taxes and the Constitution, Article 1 Section 8:

No mention of what can and cannot be taxed- that is up to Congress. They are given that power right here.

Care to clarify that statement. Ex. can Congress tax the pay I receive for mowing my neighbor's lawn?

Section 9 does have this bit:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

which was given further clarification via the Sixteenth Amendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Are you attempting to link the Sixteenth Amendment with the above "Section 9"? And if so, how?

There are two ways an amendment can be aproved. The first is to have both Houses of Congress vote in favor of it by at least a two thirds majority and then it is passed on to the states where another two thirds must pass it. This is what occured for the Sixteenth (and so far all other) amendments. The Sixteenth has been aproved by forty two of the fifty states so far- more than exceeding the requirement. Courts have upheld both the amendment and the legality of income taxes.

What is the Second way?

 

[Zippyjuan]

The second way to get an amendment to the constitution is to call for a Constitutional Convention by two thirds of the states.
Article 5:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Care to clarify that statement. Ex. can Congress tax the pay I receive for moving my neighbor's lawn?

Nothing in the Constitution that says they cannot.

Are you attempting to link the Sixteenth Amendment with the above "Section 9"? And if so, how?

Some income tax fighters claim that Section 9 excludes income taxation since it is not assesed " in Proportion to the Census". The Sixteenth amendment removes that restriction

from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States

 

[christagious]

The duty of government is to uphold laws. That guy wasn't saying he SUPPORTED the Income Tax, just that laws should be enforced. If our laws, however despicable and statist, were not be be upheld, our republic would quickly decay into anarchy.

However, and someone else pointed out, there might not actually be any laws saying someone HAS to pay taxes. In this case, the actions are generally tyrannical, but Ibgamer did not know that the law did not exist.

You can't enforce a law that doesn't exist

 

[Danke]

Nothing in the Constitution that says they cannot.

So with your logic, if the Constitution doesn't say Congress can't do something, then they if fact can do it? So you would agree that they can tax my lawn mowing pay?

Some income tax fighters claim that Section 9 excludes income taxation since it is not assesed " in Proportion to the Census". The Sixteenth amendment removes that restriction

So you are saying the Sixteenth Amendment removed the "Proportion to the Census" (apportionment) from Capitation taxes in the Constitution?

 

[Zippyjuan]

If something is not prohibited then it is by definition allowed.

The Constitution did not set out to establish the laws, only to set the framework for creating them and define the roles of the various parts of government.

 

[Danke]

If something is not prohibited then it is by definition allowed.

The Constitution did not set out to establish the laws, only to set the framework for creating them and define the roles of the various parts of government.

I take that as a yes to my Question about taxing my pay.

How about the second question?

 

[Kludge]

You would eliminate defense? I don't think that would ever happen. And so I assume you're against Ron Paul's support of a "strong national defense."

Yep =) I'm a heartless libertarian (anarcho-voluntarist/Minarchist-ish). I dislike a lot of his positions.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I take that as a yes to my Question about taxing my pay.

How about the second question?

That would be a "yes" to your first question. Things not forbidden like income taxes are allowed under the Consitution as would be the ability of Congress to establish a tax on you for cutting your neighbor's lawn if they decided to do so.

So you are saying the Sixteenth Amendment removed the "Proportion to the Census" (apportionment) from Capitation taxes in the Constitution?

It is really more of a modification and elaboration of Section 9 rather than a replacement. Poll and head taxes are not used so the 16th is more used than Section 9 is.

 

[Danke]

That would be a "yes" to your first question. Things not forbidden like income taxes are allowed under the Consitution as would be the ability of Congress to establish a tax on you for cutting your neighbor's lawn if they decided to do so.


It is really more of a modification and elaboration of Section 9 rather than a replacement. Poll and head taxes are not used so the 16th is more used than Section 9 is.

Wrong on both accounts.

 

[Danke]

Nothing in the Constitution that says they cannot.

Ever heard of Article X?

 

[Zippyjuan]

You mean George Kennan's article promoting the idea of containment of the USSR published in Foreign Affairs? What does that have to do with the Constitutionality of income taxes?

Wrong on both accounts.

Please explain and provide evidence.

Or do you mean the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution?

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Constitution grants the Congress the power to tax. I quoted that earlier.

It is covered in Article 1 Section 8 as well as the Sixteenth Amendment.

 

[Danke]

Please explain and provide evidence.

Click on my name and it will show you all of my posts that already provided such evidence.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Click on my name and it will show you all of my posts that already provided such evidence.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts

It does not get much clear than that.

 

[Danke]

The Constitution grants the Congress the power to tax. I quoted that earlier.

Yes it does, but not in the manner you proscribe.

You quoted unrelated types of taxation powers and grouped them as the same.

 

[Danke]

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts

It does not get much clear than that.

Can they lay and collect taxes on everyone and everything everywhere?

Of course not. (maybe why the push for world government).

Now what type of taxes can they lay on intrastate commerce? Between private parties?

The Constitution only applies to certain places and certain activities that are the under the jurisdiction of the Federal government.