We're All Ready Fascist.

[Patriot123]

No, really. We're all ready a fascist regime. What exactly is the definition of fascism in economic terms? A government that either controls businesses and corporations or controls them discretely. In other words, everything is either owned or controlled by the government.

So tell me. What say do airliners have over what they do? After September 11th, airliners barely had a say as to what the heck they did. They have to follow everything "Homeland Security" tells them. They have to suspend all air traffic if the government tells them to. They have to cooperate with the federal government in the event of backlogged flights. They have to regulate who flies and who doesn't (ie the watch list) and despite all of these rules that they're told to follow, they have to permit secret agents with guns on their airliners. How absurd is this?
Then we have things like automobile companies. Regulated by the government.
Weapon manufacturers? Regulated, and owned at times.
Gun shops? Regulated like hell.
The entire economy? Controlled like a puppet. Must I continue?


Does this strike anyone as odd? Really. By definition, we've all ready gone Fascist. Right after 9/11.

 

[Ex Post Facto]

I believe you are right. Our government went facist...this is the key point though. The people haven't gone facist. They are walking a thin line.

 

[Patriot123]

They are walking a thin line.

Yeah, and it's about to break :/

 

[torchbearer]

you are correct, its just not benficial to mention it in a media environment that is owned by the very fascist you'd be talking about...

 

[crackyflipside]

From Fascist philosopher Giovanni Gentile written in 1932 explaining fascism,

The State not only is authority which governs and molds individual wills with laws and values of spiritual life, but it is also power which makes its will prevail abroad. [...] For the Fascist, everything is within the State and [...] neither individuals nor groups are outside the State. [...] For Fascism, the State is an absolute, before which individuals or groups are only relative. [...] Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual

And he describes Fascism's rejection of democracy as:

the absurd conventional lie of political equalitarianism, the habit of collective irresponsibility, the myth of felicity and indefinite progress

We are living in a fascist state already.

 

[torchbearer]

They are fascist/collectivist. see video for details:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

and yes, watch the whole hour and a half, you will be glad you did

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I have been calling our nation "collectivo-fascist" now for at least 6 months.

 

[cageybee]

No, really. We're all ready a fascist regime. What exactly is the definition of fascism in economic terms? A government that either controls businesses and corporations or controls them discretely. In other words, everything is either owned or controlled by the government.

So tell me. What say do airliners have over what they do? After September 11th, airliners barely had a say as to what the heck they did. They have to follow everything "Homeland Security" tells them. They have to suspend all air traffic if the government tells them to. They have to cooperate with the federal government in the event of backlogged flights. They have to regulate who flies and who doesn't (ie the watch list) and despite all of these rules that they're told to follow, they have to permit secret agents with guns on their airliners. How absurd is this?
Then we have things like automobile companies. Regulated by the government.
Weapon manufacturers? Regulated, and owned at times.
Gun shops? Regulated like hell.
The entire economy? Controlled like a puppet. Must I continue?


Does this strike anyone as odd? Really. By definition, we've all ready gone Fascist. Right after 9/11.

fascism comes to capitalism when corporations become so big that they become our government because of their economical influence and because of their financial strength they can influence constitution, presidential decisions, military actions, and so forth. no longer interests of the people become important. economy is a #1 concern and corporations are concern that's before the #1 concern.

therefore, fascism is a merger of the corporate and government power where corporations take a dominant role in government's actions.

for example, when pharmaceutical companies become too rich, they can get really creative on people. when oil companies need help in the middle-east, they call for military action. But the worst thing is - the tax payers are paying for needs of corporations.

in other words, at the beginning it is capitalism, then it becomes fascism/despotism.
what one thing imperialism, fascism, and despotism have in common? - Rich rule the poor.

In this case rich can be a king or a corporation. In both cases - these regimes are bad for people.

Communism is the best. I predict that soon, the whole world will unite unanimously to create a one world communism government. In capitalism, money has power over people. In communism, money has no power over people, and life is much happier.

 

[clouds]

"Do you wish to know when that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the measure of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compusion- when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from a men who produce nothing- when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors- when you see men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and yourlaws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed."

-ayn rand

communism is the best? Money has no power over that society because it rejects ability and praises mediocrity.

Capitalism is excellent as long as you keep the force of government out of it. Communism is putting all of the force of government behind the economy.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I have been calling our nation "collectivo-fascist" now for at least 6 months.

As have I.

Aren't we lucky?

The worst of both worlds.

A welfare check delivered via a jackboot in your ass.

 

[raiha]

Thanks Torchbearer. I did just that!
Hmm "Armchair patriots are useless in this struggle," he said. He also pointed out why letters and petitions are useless.
I'm in the middle of "The Creature of Jekyll Island." It's all too creepy to believe...Dr Strangelove all over again and i never did like how THAT ended!

 

[cageybee]

"Do you wish to know when that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the measure of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compusion- when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from a men who produce nothing- when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors- when you see men get richer by graft and pull than by work, and yourlaws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed."

-ayn rand

communism is the best? Money has no power over that society because it rejects ability and praises mediocrity.

Capitalism is excellent as long as you keep the force of government out of it. Communism is putting all of the force of government behind the economy.

wrong, capitalism is not excellent. i already explained: when individuals or corporations become too rich they get too creative. they also become a heavy weight that has a direct influence on country's economy and perhaps other countries' economies. when there are dependencies, there are consequences.

eventually it still turns in to rich rule poor - despotism. back at square one. and what is capitalism? capitalism is extraction of capital. from where? locally and from other countries. when we extract capital from other nations, they starve to death or live a poor life while we pat ourselves on the back for creating the best way of life at a cost of others. capitalism is a root of all physical, economic, and information wars. The constant greed, need, and love for capital is always forcing entrepreneurs to get creative so that they can find more way how to gain massive capital while taking it from someone else. capitalism is not a WIN/WIN solution. it is in fact unethical and immoral. that's what Andropov said about Americans to Ronald Reagan.

communism would work in the whole world without money. people just need to accept it.

if the whole would learn that communism is actually the best way to live and accepted it as a whole, then the whole world would be extremely happy.

in communism, no one is allowed to privatize anything. it belongs to the world. it belongs to the land. it belongs to the people.

why do we get greedy and why did we turn trade into purchase? money was created to simplify trade. money allowed us to get creative and create new technologies and new life. but in this new life we get creative in ways trying to protect our "money" with weapons of mass destruction, and all kinds of evil things. once all the people will stop worshiping money and will start appreciating the true values, then people will evolve.

 

[WilliamC]

Ok cageybee, you've got me convinced.

Why don't you start by sending me any excess monies you have that isn't absolutely necessary for your bare minimal survival?

I promise I'll share it

The main problem with capitalism is that corporations are legal creations of the government and that is what allows them to accumulate more power than individuals.

Take away the laws that protect investors from the malfeasence of the individuals doing business and see how quickly corporations get their power cut down to size.

It would still be possible to do business but those doing it would have to be much more careful than they are now, especially board members who are essentially shielded from prosecution if the corporation they control engages in illegal activities.

 

[WilliamC]

communism would work in the whole world without money. people just need to accept it.

if the whole would learn that communism is actually the best way to live and accepted it as a whole, then the whole world would be extremely happy.

Unfortunately history has shown that in order to get people to accept it mass killings are required.

I'll wait until Universal Enlightenment to occur before communism becomes an option.

 

[cageybee]

Ok cageybee, you've got me convinced.

Why don't you start by sending me any excess monies you have that isn't absolutely necessary for your bare minimal survival?

I promise I'll share it

The main problem with capitalism is that corporations are legal creations of the government and that is what allows them to accumulate more power than individuals.

Take away the laws that protect investors from the malfeasence of the individuals doing business and see how quickly corporations get their power cut down to size.

It would still be possible to do business but those doing it would have to be much more careful than they are now, especially board members who are essentially shielded from prosecution if the corporation they control engages in illegal activities.

you are forgetting one very important thing - money buys people's souls.

that's how we ended up with Bush today after the founding father founded this country.

eventually, people got rich and bored, but felt that they should rule the world because they are the best at exploiting the world.

 

[Mini-Me]

fascism comes to capitalism when corporations become so big that they become our government because of their economical influence and because of their financial strength they can influence constitution, presidential decisions, military actions, and so forth. no longer interests of the people become important. economy is a #1 concern and corporations are concern that's before the #1 concern.

therefore, fascism is a merger of the corporate and government power where corporations take a dominant role in government's actions.

for example, when pharmaceutical companies become too rich, they can get really creative on people. when oil companies need help in the middle-east, they call for military action. But the worst thing is - the tax payers are paying for needs of corporations.

in other words, at the beginning it is capitalism, then it becomes fascism/despotism.
what one thing imperialism, fascism, and despotism have in common? - Rich rule the poor.

In this case rich can be a king or a corporation. In both cases - these regimes are bad for people.

Communism is the best. I predict that soon, the whole world will unite unanimously to create a one world communism government. In capitalism, money has power over people. In communism, money has no power over people, and life is much happier.

COMMUNISM IS THE BEST?!? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND?!? Please, for the love of God, tell me you are telling a funny joke just to see the resulting mayhem. You're right that we're headed for a one-world socialist state (if not Communist...which is essentially just an extreme version of socialism where the state outright owns and controls ALL industries), but if you genuinely think life will be happier, you should be spending your time in an economics 101 class, not on this message board. I mean, my own understanding of economics is amateurish at best, but advocating COMMUNISM?!? I also seem to recall a thread where you swore you were not promoting Communism...was this a lie? Are you making a joke today, or were you engaging in covert propaganda then?

What do imperialism, fascism, despotism, and Communism all have in common? The state is absolute, and it controls the sources of wealth. Regardless of your delusional fantasy that "there are no rich people under Communism," there are. Whenever the state controls everything, the elites in power are inherently rich and privileged, even if they have no "money" and they "dress plainly." They are given first priority to be provided with everything they need, ahead the common people they rule. That "first priority" is quite significant considering that under a Communist system, there WILL be shortages...MASSIVE shortages. Even benevolent central planning cannot capture the intricacies of a large-scale economy. The best central planner in the entire existence of mankind couldn't, and you can bet that in any government, your bureaucrats won't be the smartest people in the world anyway. Wasn't Mao's Cultural Revolution just the greatest friggin thing ever? Doesn't Dog Shit Food taste grand?!?

I already know your response about corruption, so don't even bother. "In the USSR, the KGB kept corruption in check by making sure the leaders were true ideological revolutionary Communists, blah, blah." It's bullshit, and you're utterly brainwashed if you actually believe a second branch of an utterly totalitarian government can adequately regulate the first. The KGB was not opposed to the state political power and corruption - it PROTECTED it under the guise of policing it. It was another branch of the state that worked alongside the Party, and their primary charge was to find and crush dissenters in the population through any means possible, including torture. Just like any other centralized authority, the KGB was easily corrupted by a lust for power and control over others. Yeah, the USSR was a real friggin utopia, wasn't it?

Communism, like all other state-run collectivist economic systems without exception, inherently degenerates into outright despotism. How could it not? The idea that "the people" collectively own everything under Communism is a mere myth designed to trick people into accepting and loving their poverty. It's a brilliant scam, really. The people are at the complete mercy of their rulers economically, and as such, they fall to the complete mercy of their rulers in every single other way. Political freedom is entirely unstable and unquestionably doomed in the absence of economic freedom. When you are completely dependent on the mercy of the Party or the state for survival, you become inescapably subservient to your "leaders." If you want to eat, you can't step out of line. Subservience kills dissent. You cannot possibly defy the whims of your leaders - if a Party leader wants to rape your whole family, there's nothing you can do about it (besides kill him, landing your whole family in the gallows). There's no legal recourse, because attacking a Party leader is the same as attacking the Party is the same as attacking the state. You're branded as a dangerous, counter-revolutionary dissident by anyone whose boots you don't lick.

Communism is the pinnacle of despotism and tyranny. Not even traditional fascism and National Socialism (Nazism) can compete with the sheer astronomical heights of totalitarianism offered by Communism.

The funny thing is...as David Boaz said, "The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community." You don't just want to freely practice living in communes with everyone who agrees with you - you want to force it on all of us! By all of us, I don't even just mean America - according to you, you want everyone in the entire WORLD to be subjugated by an almighty state. Who the hell are you to say one word about morality?

 

[cageybee]

Unfortunately history has shown that in order to get people to accept it mass killings are required.

I'll wait until Universal Enlightenment to occur before communism becomes an option.

mass killings were done because those people literally were traitors of humanity. they thought that despotism (capitalism) with its democracy is a great thing without understanding that these capitalists wanted to enslave the Russians. the poor decided that it is about time that life is in favor of not just 5%, but the whole country. they brought the revolution. But, then, every now and then some idiots would hear or see a life in america in some forbidden magazine and were corrupted by the idea of capitalism without realizing how truly bad it is. they started saying and spreading that life is great on the other side and got imprisoned or killed for it.

Napoleone, Hitler, Uncle Sam - all have one thing in common. All of them wanted to conquer Russia. Napoleone and Hitler did it by force. US has been trying it by covert force and and with financial force. So far - no one successful. Although, US did extract lots of capital and done way more damage than anyone in the world.

Hitler wanted to conquer the whole Europe and was financed by american, english, and german banks. if he would've conquer Russia - life could've been totally different today. US-Russian relations never been good after the WWII just because Russian knew who was sponsoring Hitler and for what purposes - conquer Russia either by force or by purchase.

But the worst thing is that those Nazi's that were brought to USA were brought because someone here said: "if we don't get those nazi's - russians will get them. and then, russia will be too dangerous"

yeah, right - Stalin would execute those criminals on the spot with his own hands. for hitler's joint venture sponsored by western globalists russia paid with 20,000,000 lives.

not one american today is thankful for what Russia did once for the whole world.

 

[cageybee]

COMMUNISM IS THE BEST?!? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND?!? Please, for the love of God, tell me you are telling a funny joke just to see the resulting mayhem. You're right that we're headed for a one-world socialist state (if not Communist...which is essentially just an extreme version of socialism where the state outright owns and controls ALL industries), but if you genuinely think life will be happier, you should be spending your time in an economics 101 class, not on this message board. I mean, my own understanding of economics is amateurish at best, but advocating COMMUNISM?!? I also seem to recall a thread where you swore you were not promoting Communism...was this a lie? Are you making a joke today, or were you engaging in covert propaganda then?

What do imperialism, fascism, despotism, and Communism all have in common? The state is absolute, and it controls the sources of wealth. Regardless of your delusional fantasy that "there are no rich people under Communism," there are. Whenever the state controls everything, the elites in power are inherently rich and privileged, even if they have no "money" and they "dress plainly." They are given first priority to be provided with everything they need, ahead the common people they rule. That "first priority" is quite significant considering that under a Communist system, there WILL be shortages...MASSIVE shortages. Even benevolent central planning cannot capture the intricacies of a large-scale economy. The best central planner in the entire existence of mankind couldn't, and you can bet that in any government, your bureaucrats won't be the smartest people in the world anyway. Wasn't Mao's Cultural Revolution just the greatest friggin thing ever? Doesn't Dog Shit Food taste grand?!?

I already know your response about corruption, so don't even bother. "In the USSR, the KGB kept corruption in check by making sure the leaders were true ideological revolutionary Communists, blah, blah." It's bullshit, and you're utterly brainwashed if you actually believe a second branch of an utterly totalitarian government can adequately regulate the first. The KGB was not opposed to the state political power and corruption - it PROTECTED it under the guise of policing it. It was another branch of the state that worked alongside the Party, and their primary charge was to find and crush dissenters in the population through any means possible, including torture. Just like any other centralized authority, the KGB was easily corrupted by a lust for power and control over others. Yeah, the USSR was a real friggin utopia, wasn't it?

Communism, like all other state-run collectivist economic systems without exception, inherently degenerates into outright despotism. How could it not? The idea that "the people" collectively own everything under Communism is a mere myth designed to trick people into accepting and loving their poverty. It's a brilliant scam, really. The people are at the complete mercy of their rulers economically, and as such, they fall to the complete mercy of their rulers in every single other way. Political freedom is entirely unstable and unquestionably doomed in the absence of economic freedom. When you are completely dependent on the mercy of the Party or the state for survival, you become inescapably subservient to your "leaders." If you want to eat, you can't step out of line. Subservience kills dissent. You cannot possibly defy the whims of your leaders - if a Party leader wants to rape your whole family, there's nothing you can do about it (besides kill him, landing your whole family in the gallows). There's no legal recourse, because attacking a Party leader is the same as attacking the Party is the same as attacking the state. You're branded as a dangerous, counter-revolutionary dissident by anyone whose boots you don't lick.

Communism is the pinnacle of despotism and tyranny. Not even traditional fascism and National Socialism (Nazism) can compete with the sheer astronomical heights of totalitarianism offered by Communism.

The funny thing is...as David Boaz said, "The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community." You don't just want to freely practice living in communes with everyone who agrees with you - you want to force it on all of us! By all of us, I don't even just mean America - according to you, you want everyone in the entire WORLD to be subjugated by an almighty state. Who the hell are you to say one word about morality?

communism is for the love of God. capitalism is for the love of Money. in your first statement, you disagree with me and ask me to tell you for the love of God. I told you that Communism is the better choice for all mankind. capitalism is bad for the mankind.

 

[Kotin]

communism is for the love of God. capitalism is for the love of Money. in your first statement, you disagree with me and ask me to tell you for the love of God. I told you that Communism is the better choice for all mankind. capitalism is bad for the mankind.

hahah, hilarious!!

 

[kimo]

communism is for the love of God. capitalism is for the love of Money. in your first statement, you disagree with me and ask me to tell you for the love of God. I told you that Communism is the better choice for all mankind. capitalism is bad for the mankind.

KGB, don`t even think about it!