Well, horse-puckey. What should I do?

[Grandson of Liberty]

I'm not a lawyer, but I didn't see anyone else address this question, so I thought I throw out the idea that taping the conversation is a bad idea if you don't inform the other person you are doing so. You might even have to ask their permission. I don't know for sure, I could be wrong. It happened once before.

 

[BLS]

I'm not a lawyer, but I didn't see anyone else address this question, so I thought I throw out the idea that taping the conversation is a bad idea if you don't inform the other person you are doing so. You might even have to ask their permission. I don't know for sure, I could be wrong. It happened once before.

I'm not sure what the law is. I guess if I did it, I would notify her that I'll be recording the conversation.

 

[BLS]

totally off topic but...

Different states may call it different terms, some call it "home-rule" and "non home-rule" municipalities. Home-rule municipalities may require homeowners through properly enacted ordinances to maintain publicly owned land that abuts their property. The only thing that defines the boundaries of your property should be the property deed that is filed with the city or county.

I thought about that. The grass in front of the fence may NOT be my property, but the fence most assuredly is.

 

[cjhowe]

I thought about that. The grass in front of the fence may NOT be my property, but the fence most assuredly is.

Then the more important question is (and it's on topic) does your fence sit on your property? If not...you may win the fight to put up a sign on your property...but then be told to take your fence down off of public property.

 

[steph3n]

what do you do when this happens? put up more banners!

 

[orenbus]

yea really worst case scenario, you may have to move
the fence back a foot or two, then boom the whole
thing can be covered in banners

 

[BLS]

Then the more important question is (and it's on topic) does your fence sit on your property? If not...you may win the fight to put up a sign on your property...but then be told to take your fence down off of public property.

Good point. I don't konw for sure to be honest with you.
I haven't seen the property lines.

 

[Flirple]

I would first make sure that the fence is indeed your property and not the city's. You seem sure of this but I would double check.

I don't see how this is a first amendment issue. The first amendment says "congress shall make no law..." It doesn't say anything about a state or a city making a law abridging freedom of speech. That would be up to your state constitution as I see it. This is local tyranny not federal.

But regardless of if it is constitutional, it is plain wrong on principle. And if it is indeed your fence and not the city's then it doesn't matter even if you had a city ordinance that said what you were doing was illegal. That doesn't mean that it is a morally justified law. And any such law telling you what you can do with your property should be willfully ignored as a way to raise awareness for the need to remove that law from the books. Call the media and milk this for all the free publicity possible. The "Ron Paul Revolution" is a bigger opportunity than just electing one guy President. It is an opportunity to raise awareness and fight back tyranny at every level along the way.

 

[BLS]

bump for anyone who hasn't seen this yet.

 

[ValidusCustodiae]

Heh

I'd put up about 5 more signs and one of them which says...

"Come and take them."

 

[trispear]

I don't see how this is a first amendment issue. The first amendment says "congress shall make no law..." It doesn't say anything about a state or a city making a law abridging freedom of speech. That would be up to your state constitution as I see it. This is local tyranny not federal.

Look up the 14th amendment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It prevents states from violating your Constitutional Rights. Otherwise all of them would have been trampled on long ago without consequences by local and state governments.

 

[Razmear]

How does that constitute being within the laws?
The election is way over 100 days away.

Not arguing with you...just curious if you can explain it??

The Primary is 99 days away, so he's legal.

eb

Edit: My bad, thought he was in Michigan, not Minnesota.
Still say leave em up, though. Good publicity for property rights.

 

[BLS]

The Primary is 99 days away, so he's legal.

eb

Not the Minnesota Primary though.

 

[lasenorita]

I'm not sure what the law is. I guess if I did it, I would notify her that I'll be recording the conversation.

Since you're both located in Minnesota, it looks like all you need to record conversations is one party consent (yours). Visit RCFP for details. United States Telephone Recording Laws is also a good read for those interested.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

tell them they can have the banners when they pry it out of your cold dead fingers

 

[Thunderbolt]

I live in a community that has rules and no one is allowed to put up any political banners. It is my home, but I do not have the right to do whatever I want to on my property.

Do not get BLS all worked up over this. This may be against an ordinance or something. Perhaps you can put the sign on high sticks inside your yard, or across your garage door?

Find out what the exact rules are and then see if there are any loopholes. Ask why the businesses can put up signs.

This is not unusual and we don't win by getting ourselves tickets or thrown in jail.

Just see what is legal and allowed and see if you can work with that. Or can you put the banner on your car and park your car on the street?

Start of nice and see what you can work out. There are always loopholes.

 

[foofighter20x]

Thanks, RonPaulHawaii; hopefully seeing the actual appellate opinions' language will convince the doubters that the Constitution does apply despite "jurisdiction."

There's a question over constitutional jurisdiction?

Who are these numbskulls? I mean, really, come on! I distinctly remember the Constitution saying it's the supreme law of the land...

How do they really expect to trump that??

 

[rodent]

Actually, the government owns all the land:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title

This makes me so sad. The only way I can truly be free is if I have a revolution and make my own country with guns or a lot of money.

 

[sunny]

Yes, this is my home.

you may conider that your home but you do NOT own the property.
if you are in the system and purchase property in that manner you do NOT own it - it is owned by the state.
the only way to outright OWN your property is with an allodial "title"

there is harcly anyone in the country who OWNS their home.

 

[Ninja Homer]

Letter from my City Hall today.

Dear Current Resident,

The City of Hastings (MN) recently noticed a banner was placed on the fence behind the home at (address). Please note, the City Of Hastings Sign Ordinance does not allow banners in the residential district.

Therefore, the banner must be removed by October 8th, 2007.

Please contact me with any questions at 651-480-2377.

Sincerely,

Kari Barker
Associate Planner

Do I remove it....or do I fight it?

Here's why I ask.

Just down the street is our local highschool football stadium.
And there are a TON of banners on there from local businesses, etc.
That Stadium is right in the middle of a residential area.

Here's photos of my signs.

The 3rd image shows a school board candidate, who stopped by yesterday to ask if they could put a sign up there. I said sure, if you donate $5 to Ron Paul's campaign. He did, so I let him. Think they'll ask me to take them down?

I am going to call her tomorrow....should I record my conversation?

This is the ordinance they're referring to:

(11) Temporary ribbons, banners, pennants, and similar devices are allowed in commercial, industrial, and public institution districts. The devices shall be removed if they become torn, discolored, or in any way damaged to modify their original appearance. Businesses and/or property owners utilizing these temporary devices that include advertising and/or a message shall be allowed only a total of 90 days during any 12-month period. Only 1 device shall be used at a time, and the maximum size of the device shall be equal to or less than the monument sign standards for the district in which the site is located, or in the case of the East 2nd Street Historic District or Downtown Core District, equal or less than the wall sign standards;

The high school football stadium is probably zoned as a public institution, so they can have banners. It sounds like they are only arguing that you can't have banners, since they didn't say anything about the other political sign.

Reasons for fighting it would include fighting for your Constitutional rights just on general principle, or getting media attention for Ron Paul.

If you just want to work within their stupid ordinances, turn the banners into signs. Get some cheap plywood or fiberboard, cut it to size, and mount the banner to it with some double-sided tape. Then you can tell them you took the banners down and put signs up.

Their election sign ordinance:

(3) Election/campaign signs on private property provided the signs are posted no sooner than 100 days before a city, school, county, state, or federal election and removed within 10 days following an election. No election signs shall be affixed to utility poles;

Notice it says that it has to be within 100 days before an election, but it doesn't specify that the campaign sign has to be for that particular election. So if there's a city, school, county, or state election in the next 100 days you're good. Of course, it's assumed that they are talking about a campaign sign being within 100 days of that particular election, but if they are going to nitpick about putting a sign up on your own damn property, nitpick back.

In MN, you can record a conversation as long as you are in on the conversation.

Good luck!