We need our own island

[LibertiORDeth]

Well the British thought they could tax us to hell, and we all know what happened.

Let the IRS show up in our new country and see what luck they have with collecting taxes.

Great idea, I don't think they would bother attacking an island a few thousand strong (and heavily armed) for a few measly dollars that they can just print anyways.

 

[jason43]

The island would have to be in international water, and capable of sustaining life, i.e. support livestock, have fresh water, etc. It would also be a tremendous expense to get some sort of power grid going probably using wind and solar because they would be sustainable. We would also need boats for fishing, etc, medical personel/facilities... unless you want to go back to the land and live in tepees.

 

[phoenixzorn]

So are you seriously considering joining this, or are you just having fun? Your restaurant would be very beneficial to us all.

Oh, no... I don't goof around with stuff like this... I'm very serious...

We'd need about 500-600 acres of total farmland I think for about 25,000 people... While I am confident that my 40 acres would feed 1000 people per acre, it would take a long time to get started, and it would need to be staffed very well with people who are knowledgeable about greenhouse gardening, hydroponics, and aquaponics.... Everyone needs to get used to using bicycles again, or we need to figure out some way to do public transportation, which means building roads or at the very least, elevated rail - the latter being my preference because we'd have to destroy less land to install the rail system... think Disney World's People Transporter Monorail train.

As much as I'd like to think all Ron Paul supporters and lovers of Liberty are peaceful people, we know that's a pipe dream and we'll also need some law enforcement and a requirement - a la Switzerland - that every able bodied male be armed with full automatic rifles, and that all able bodied women are properly trained in AA fire, and other long range weaponry. As much as I'd like to believe that women are capable of fighting on the front lines, even most women readily admit that they'd wet themselves if they were staring down a bad guy... Ladies, there's nothing to be ashamed of there, we're built differently, and when it comes right down to it, I'd rather have you back home making sure the sick and injured are taken care of, rather than you sacrificing your own life on the front line defending against an invasion... That's what men were made for, to defend you... Brains, equal... Brawn, not so much...

Also, we do need medical staff, at least two hospitals, a fire department - on rails?? - back country roads, farmers, scientists, industry, commercial enterprise, veterinarians, teachers - Libertarian teachers, NOT LIBERAL teachers - schools, and a monetary system that cannot be corrupted, and cannot be counterfeited.

Ultimately, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are the two most perfect documents ever written in the history of man since the Bible... We should use both documents verbatim, and add clauses that further explicitly prevent our own elected officials from becoming corrupt, power grabbing, lobbyist loving, tree hugging, batshit crazy, sandal wearing, religion bashing, liberals.

 

[NEPA_Revolution]

The island would have to be in international water, and capable of sustaining life, i.e. support livestock, have fresh water, etc. It would also be a tremendous expense to get some sort of power grid going probably using wind and solar because they would be sustainable. We would also need boats for fishing, etc, medical personel/facilities... unless you want to go back to the land and live in tepees.

+1


This is the craziest thing I have ever seen in this forum. I like the idea, but have my doubts.


(BTW the 10mil island is the best. More island for your buck.)

 

[jason43]

Also, another plan for libertarian paradice island.

 

[lost_in_samoa]

..

 

[shane2]

Establishing recognized sovereignty is the challenge. All known lands are already all claimed, except for the poles and even there there are international agreements permitting all and limiting claims.

If as an individual, and fully and finally convinced it's futile to stem the tide of ever increasing socialism here, then best to just quietly emigrate to a country more to one's liking. Venezuela, which I've lived in, would be my first choice... IF Chavez was not there. A group could split up a big ranch and support their state governor of choice most committed to ignoring them.

If a truly serious group wanted to start up their own country, though, I'd look at piotr1 suggestion above to take over a small country from inside. There's a half-dozen strategies to doing so and not all would be internally opposed. One of these countries on his list could be a good candidate...
http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/smallcountries.htm

Another tax-free zone Cayman Island type place could become a popular destination or, on the other end of the scale, take the tact to stay firmly off the radar scope and be low-key.

- Shane

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Oh, no... I don't goof around with stuff like this... I'm very serious...

We'd need about 500-600 acres of total farmland I think for about 25,000 people... While I am confident that my 40 acres would feed 1000 people per acre, it would take a long time to get started, and it would need to be staffed very well with people who are knowledgeable about greenhouse gardening, hydroponics, and aquaponics.... Everyone needs to get used to using bicycles again, or we need to figure out some way to do public transportation, which means building roads or at the very least, elevated rail - the latter being my preference because we'd have to destroy less land to install the rail system... think Disney World's People Transporter Monorail train.

As much as I'd like to think all Ron Paul supporters and lovers of Liberty are peaceful people, we know that's a pipe dream and we'll also need some law enforcement and a requirement - a la Switzerland - that every able bodied male be armed with full automatic rifles, and that all able bodied women are properly trained in AA fire, and other long range weaponry. As much as I'd like to believe that women are capable of fighting on the front lines, even most women readily admit that they'd wet themselves if they were staring down a bad guy... Ladies, there's nothing to be ashamed of there, we're built differently, and when it comes right down to it, I'd rather have you back home making sure the sick and injured are taken care of, rather than you sacrificing your own life on the front line defending against an invasion... That's what men were made for, to defend you... Brains, equal... Brawn, not so much...

Also, we do need medical staff, at least two hospitals, a fire department - on rails?? - back country roads, farmers, scientists, industry, commercial enterprise, veterinarians, teachers - Libertarian teachers, NOT LIBERAL teachers - schools, and a monetary system that cannot be corrupted, and cannot be counterfeited.

Ultimately, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are the two most perfect documents ever written in the history of man since the Bible... We should use both documents verbatim, and add clauses that further explicitly prevent our own elected officials from becoming corrupt, power grabbing, lobbyist loving, tree hugging, batshit crazy, sandal wearing, religion bashing, liberals.

This is so far the best post on this topic. I was also thinking along the lines of rail transportation, and that we need to adopt the Constitution, and pretty much everything else you have said. Waiting for Josh to get back to me as to whether he will create a sub forum for this. I also agree on the defense views you expressed; Although women should be capable of defending themselves, and be able to efficiently use a weapon, they do not need to be the boots on the ground, and there are plenty of other positions they could fill (such as providing medical aid or cooking).

 

[Shink]

how's the hunting on these?? I'll take 40acres in South America.... Also, we'll have to buy the ENTIRE Island, and get Alodial Title to it - this cannot be a "Real Estate" purchase... it must be bought with gold and silver, and must come with no strings attached... it is OURS and Sovereign... no laws of any other land may apply.

Of course, we'll need a government, and a monetary system, and arrange trade with many countries, and likely be nuked by USA for leaving shortly after filling up the island... but I'm all for moving to a private island.

Yep. No allodial title, no deal. I would be glad to move if I had to pay a chunk for my family as long as the place is truly sovereign. I will surely have suggestions for a government. Perhaps we could put into law permanent neutrality like the Switzerland of old. The island's inhabitants could make up an all-volunteer defense corps. Gold and silver currencies only. No fractional reserve banks. No dissolution of sovereignty ever. Etc. I'd offer up myself to train any militia. I have extensive combat training across several weapon types and scenarios (infantry, not talking artillery or anything).

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Establishing recognized sovereignty is the challenge. All known lands are already all claimed, except for the poles and even there there are international agreements permitting all and limiting claims.

If as an individual, and fully and finally convinced it's futile to stem the tide of ever increasing socialism here, then best to just quietly emigrate to a country more to one's liking. Venezuela, which I've lived in, would be my first choice... IF Chavez was not there. A group could split up a big ranch and support their state governor of choice most committed to ignoring them.

If a truly serious group wanted to start up their own country, though, I'd look at piotr1 suggestion above to take over a small country from inside. There's a half-dozen strategies to doing so and not all would be internally opposed. One of these countries on his list could be a good candidate...
http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/smallcountries.htm

Another tax-free zone Cayman Island type place could become a popular destination or, on the other end of the scale, take the tact to stay firmly off the radar scope and be low-key.

- Shane

I am not convinced that taking over from the inside-out would be the best solution, since there would probably be resistance to that in any country, and the neighboring nations might not like it. We would also have to conform to the language/culture of the people there, which would add to the difficulty.
If we can find an island that is in international waters and is fairly inexpensive, and large enough to sustain us, it would be feasible.

 

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

sounds like a great place to build a resort regardless of location. come to <whatever-it's-called> where and experience a the relaxation of being FREE!

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Yep. No allodial title, no deal. I would be glad to move if I had to pay a chunk for my family as long as the place is truly sovereign. I will surely have suggestions for a government. Perhaps we could put into law permanent neutrality like the Switzerland of old. The island's inhabitants could make up an all-volunteer defense corps. Gold and silver currencies only. No fractional reserve banks. No dissolution of sovereignty ever. Etc. I'd offer up myself to train any militia. I have extensive combat training across several weapon types and scenarios (infantry, not talking artillery or anything).

Once again, great ideas. The currency would be difficult to work out, since gold/silver is very costly for a new government, but we could find a reasonable solution.

 

[Shink]

I have a question--how are libertarians and somewhat-libertarians going to avoid a Bioshock scenario? I guess there's no saying what we'd agree on as to 'how free is free and how free is too free.' If you haven't played Bioshock, I feel sad for you. The story is based on a guy who is a capitalistic atheist who builds an underwater city, Rapture, that is a haven for free-thinkers and people at the top of their intellectual fields. The limitations don't really exist in Rapture and scientists eventually create widespread gene modifications that are addictive and eventually everything goes haywire. Not that that is the most realistic scenario, but it illustrates what can go wrong in a purely ideological society.

Once again, great ideas. The currency would be difficult to work out, since gold/silver is very costly for a new government, but we could find a reasonable solution.

I think if we had a strong agricultural focus for awhile (and actually, we'd have to always maintain our own agriculture to have a chance of lasting as a country), we'd be fine. Agriculture pays itself off after awhile, and once you speed past the 'breaking even' line, you have renewable resources and more than enough to sell off to gain a foothold into owning real money (likely silver at first due to lower rarity than gold).

 

[LibertiORDeth]

I have a question--how are libertarians and somewhat-libertarians going to avoid a Bioshock scenario? I guess there's no saying what we'd agree on as to 'how free is free and how free is too free.'

Follow the Constitution. 'Nuff said.

 

[skinnyskittles1989]

let the free market decide the currency

 

[Shink]

Follow the Constitution. 'Nuff said.

Well, our Constitution has its failures and we need one like it but vastly improved. The Bill of Rights would be the most extremely important part, and we'd have to lay out a LOT of stuff that government can NEVER do.

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Well, our Constitution has its failures and we need one like it but vastly improved. The Bill of Rights would be the most extremely important part, and we'd have to lay out a LOT of stuff that government can NEVER do.

There are also a few things that need to be added to the Bill of Rights, such as making all elections paper ballot and hand counted.

 

[skinnyskittles1989]

we should add a delegislative branch

 

[LibertiORDeth]

we should add a delegislative branch

I... ummm.... think you will have to refresh my mind on this one...

 

[LibertiORDeth]

let the free market decide the currency

And allow competing currencies...