We are in Serious Trouble - Two Hours With Trump Supporters Online

What's interesting is that I've noticed the same type of stuff from the Bernie supporters. It's amazing how similar the supporters of both Trump and Sanders are to each other.

Of course they are. They're drawing from the same (enormous, majority-sized) pool of people who are sick and tired of the lies and the bullshit from the establishment and the fact that the average person has zero say in policy.

If this election is about anything, it's about a rejection of the establishment.

Liberty supporters should not place themselves on the tracks of that train.

The correct, strategic position is to bargain with the only one available that can be dealt with at all. We could have wrested some serious concessions, but that window is quickly closing if not already closed.

Because too many people who claim to support liberty are all-or-nothing absolutists, nobody else will make any deals with us and we all end up with nothing.
 
And then they all walk into the voting booth, knowing nothing about the Congressional, state, and local races. And many of them vote for establishment pieces of garbage because they are the only names they recognize.

Would not surprise me one bit. The people in SC I know who voted against Graham in the 2014 Senate primary despise Trump. And I'm sure that the Trump supporters in Kentucky who complain about Rand Paul selling out to Mitch McConnell probably skipped that primary.
 
Of course they are. They're drawing from the same (enormous, majority-sized) pool of people who are sick and tired of the lies and the bullshit from the establishment and the fact that the average person has zero say in policy.

If this election is about anything, it's about a rejection of the establishment.

Liberty supporters should not place themselves on the tracks of that train.

The correct, strategic position is to bargain with the only one available that can be dealt with at all. We could have wrested some serious concessions, but that window is quickly closing if not already closed.

Because too many people who claim to support liberty are all-or-nothing absolutists, nobody else will make any deals with us and we all end up with nothing.

Bullshit. I've laid out three alternatives. Feel free to read in the threads you skipped over them. <check> Options abound. Just because individuals that understand Liberty won't follow you down the Trump road doesn't make us wrong. We don't bend knees or kiss rings for favors from establishment-authoritarians. I'm sorry you think that is the only option you have.
 
Many people do not truly know how to debate, they do know how to be mean and argue. The unfortunate result of is is that when someone tries to legitimately debate politics, the methods of their responses will typically first lead into attacking the character of their opponent instead of addressing the ideas presented. The result is name calling and retorts which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic presented. For example, if you dont agree with me on Global Cooling (again, example), then youre an idiot and a conspiracy nut and brainwashed, stupid, uneducated, unwilling to acknowledge the facts, bullheaded, loon, kook, your information comes from people with biased opinions, etc. All of these types of attacks undermine the credibility of the individual, but again, do not address the idea. This leads to some very bad outcomes. Monkey see, monkey do. These types of arguments when heard by the supporters adopt the same tactics since it casts the illusion they are legitimately winning the debate. They are not. All they are doing is Mass Confirmation Bias. He said youre a slut so you must be a slut, then they resort to parroting and repeating what theyve heard. There is a bit of that around here, but I think a lot less than in other places. Many of these tactics are picked up from the MSM by Ambush Journalism. People like Bill O'Reilly win their arguments by talking louder, insulting, and cutting off any guests that dont agree with the opinion presented. This was quite obvious in an ABC interview by David Muir with Tim Cook, president of Apple in regards to "unlocking the iPhone". The questions that Muir presented were loaded and very misleading. Statements such as "the families of the victims", which insinuated that all the families fully supported the FBI, and that is entirely untrue. Several of the families of the victims have come out in support of Apple. This is a manipulation known as "Lying by Omission". The result of this creates the Loaded Question, where if Tim Cook answers in any way that doesnt suport a redirected value of safety over privacy, then Tim Cook looks like an asshole to the viewers.

One of the key components of Propaganda is that it has to be short enough to be repeatable by idiots. What youre really arguing with isnt an individual, but a series of responses that exist in the minds of those in the arguments. Its like arguing with someone that is so religious that it takes on an unhealthy mental state that god doesnt exist, to which they will respond "god does exist because the Bible says so". It doesnt matter of god exists or not, the problem Im trying to point out is the method of response is not a conclusion that was drawn by the person that made the statement. They are repeating what they heard. And just so I dont offend the religious people here, I'll present the opposite side of the coin. Argue with an atheist that god does exist and a conditioned response would be "prove it". And again, it isnt because they drew their own conclusion, the phrase "prove it" is a response that they have already heard and agree with. Sadly, it shows that when people argue instead of having meaningful debates, very few original ideas are drawn, as most of the arguments have been preconcluded, which leads to the viral nature of propaganda. If propaganda was not effective, it wouldnt be used.

There are methods that a person can use to win pretty much any argument, but none of the are exactly what I would deem as moral.
 
We are in serious trouble as a country.

I just spent the last two hours engaging Trump supporters in various forums, comment sections, and online venues.

If you thought the Trump supporters were bad here on RPF, you are sorely mistaken.

They are ignorant. They don't care about constitutional principles. And they are MEAN. I mean viciously horribly dark and mean.

I no longer have a horse in this race and I'm not advocating for anyone and I made that clear to everyone I engaged with.

I was attacked with low information insults from the start. They went after my wife, my kids, my military service, you name it... This is literally an uprising of the ignorant angry masses. They wouldn't hesitate to round up anyone who disagrees with them and imprison them or even kill them. Heck Trump himself has advocated internment camps...

Trump or Hillary.... this does not end well.

Edit: I was also very polite and courteous. I was simply debating Trumps policy positions and advocating liberty principles.

Out of curiosity, which forum(s) were you on?
 
We are in serious trouble as a country.

I just spent the last two hours engaging Trump supporters in various forums, comment sections, and online venues.

You poor soul, why would you ever willingly do that to yourself? You are a bigger man than I.

If you thought the Trump supporters were bad here on RPF, you are sorely mistaken.

I've found that the RPF Trump supporters are quite respectful and well meaning. They are lost in this terrible election, just as we all are, and they are turning to who is promising "Hope and Change". Either that or they are hoping that "Making America Great Again" will be the deathsong of the GOP. But I do not think they are delusional like the majority of the Trump supporters out there.

They are ignorant. They don't care about constitutional principles. And they are MEAN. I mean viciously horribly dark and mean.

That is more than just Trump fans. That is the state of American Civility. We are a horribly dark and mean people. Sad but true. Moral decay does that to a nation....well, especially to a divided nation.

I no longer have a horse in this race and I'm not advocating for anyone and I made that clear to everyone I engaged with.

I do as well, I try to give them the revolutionary idea that it is "okay" not to be 100% for one of two options.

I was attacked with low information insults from the start. They went after my wife, my kids, my military service, you name it... This is literally an uprising of the ignorant angry masses. They wouldn't hesitate to round up anyone who disagrees with them and imprison them or even kill them. Heck Trump himself has advocated internment camps...

Low information insults are what they have learned from The Donald himself. Populism takes precedence over Principle. Not having a wife or kids, I obviously have not been attacked in this way; but I was surprised to find that my military service has also been targeted. Something about being called "Obama's Dog" just doesn't sit right with me...I never thought I would hear that from the GOP, which frightens me greatly.

This is absolutely an uprising of the ignorant angry masses, and such takeovers can often lead to violence. This is *exactly* why the founding fathers advocated so strongly against democracy. The downfall of Ancient Greece is happening here. We have been in transition from Republic to Democracy for awhile...an election fueled in populism could quickly turn to Tyranny of the Majority.


Trump or Hillary.... this does not end well.

A part of me is hoping that the Establishment comes in and saves the day with mediocre status quo. One of my friends, who is very, very "conservative" told me the other day "I think I would rather stomach an Obama 3rd Term than let one of these guys win. I'm scared to death of the unknown".

Edit: I was also very polite and courteous. I was simply debating Trumps policy positions and advocating liberty principles.

There is no room for debate in a cult of personality.

I feel your pain!
 
They are rabid, because they are fed up with the Obama's, Bush's, McConnell's, Boehner's, Clintons of the world. They are mad as hell, and the more the Washington Mafia attacks Trump, the more rabid support Trump will get.
 
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Spartacus had to take on Crassus, he didn't want to be as crass as Crassus. Mr. Donald Trump isn't
a latterday Spartacus trying to lead his people to freedom up over the Alps. Just pointing this out!!!
 
When all you can do is offer "whataboutisms" to defend Donald Trump, you have to realize there's a problem at some point.

Who is defending Trump? My point is that there are a bunch of a-holes supporting all of the remaining candidates, and I certainly don't see any reason to exclude Hillary and Sanders from that evaluation.
 
They are rabid, because they are fed up with the Obama's, Bush's, McConnell's, Boehner's, Clintons of the world. They are mad as hell, and the more the Washington Mafia attacks Trump, the more rabid support Trump will get.

Rascally rabid rabbits....
 
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