Was Christmas originally a pagan holiday? Nope.

[Sola_Fide]

There's nothing just about a God who banishes every non-Christian to hell, even those that have never even heard the name Jesus spoken.

Why? God is just to condemn sinful men. If He didn't do that, He wouldn't be just.

 

[hells_unicorn]

FWIW, theres no reason for God to have a son who has to die in order for us to be forgiven for sins.

It doesnt add up.

It's the only way that anything adds up. When you have a covenant of works that requires perfect obedience, and the one who breaks that covenant (Adam) represents all of humanity in himself, causing a collective curse upon the entire human race, the only way that sin can be eradicated is by having one who perfectly keeps that same covenant (Christ) voluntarily lay down his life in order to reverse the curse. It is impossible for any naturally conceived human being to do what is not in his/her nature, and perfectly keeping the law intrinsically and extrinsically is not in the nature of Fallen Mankind. Jesus' perfect obedience fulfilled The Law, and his death and resurrection became the new archetype (the New Adam) by which the curse of death is lifted from mankind, and his divine person, as part of the Holy Trinity makes it all possible.

It is all perfectly understandable, it is all perfectly logical. Those who don't think it adds up think that way because, deep down, they don't want it to add up. Such is the intellectual manifestation of sin, turning reason against the truth.

But that doesnt make him God.

Consult The Gospel of John, chapter 1, among other key parts of the New Testament. If Christ is not God, the entire revelation of both the OT and the NT are a complete sham. I get this "Jesus was a good person/teacher but he wasn't God" nonsense from modern "thinkers" all the time, completely unbeknownst to them that this statement makes Christ a liar by necessity, hence he wouldn't be such a good person/teacher after all.

Even as a little kid when I pray I pray to God the Father.. just go straight to the top.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Tell me, what makes you think that you have the standing to address God the Father directly? At no point in all of scripture does The Father address any man, patriarch, prophet or apostle directly, but always through either The Son (The Word, through the prophets in the OT), or in the pouring out of his Spirit (The Holy Spirit, another different subsistence of the Trinity, but one and the same in substance). Which one of those 2 are you again?

 

[Chester Copperpot]

It's the only way that anything adds up. When you have a covenant of works that requires perfect obedience, and the one who breaks that covenant (Adam) represents all of humanity in himself, causing a collective curse upon the entire human race, the only way that sin can be eradicated is by having one who perfectly keeps that same covenant (Christ) voluntarily lay down his life in order to reverse the curse. It is impossible for any naturally conceived human being to do what is not in his/her nature, and perfectly keeping the law intrinsically and extrinsically is not in the nature of Fallen Mankind. Jesus' perfect obedience fulfilled The Law, and his death and resurrection became the new archetype (the New Adam) by which the curse of death is lifted from mankind, and his divine person, as part of the Holy Trinity makes it all possible.

It is all perfectly understandable, it is all perfectly logical. Those who don't think it adds up think that way because, deep down, they don't want it to add up. Such is the intellectual manifestation of sin, turning reason against the truth.



Consult The Gospel of John, chapter 1, among other key parts of the New Testament. If Christ is not God, the entire revelation of both the OT and the NT are a complete sham. I get this "Jesus was a good person/teacher but he wasn't God" nonsense from modern "thinkers" all the time, completely unbeknownst to them that this statement makes Christ a liar by necessity, hence he wouldn't be such a good person/teacher after all.



"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Tell me, what makes you think that you have the standing to address God the Father directly? At no point in all of scripture does The Father address any man, patriarch, prophet or apostle directly, but always through either The Son (The Word, through the prophets in the OT), or in the pouring out of his Spirit (The Holy Spirit, another different subsistence of the Trinity, but one and the same in substance). Which one of those 2 are you again?

theres so much fail in your post I dont even think I can address it all... its okay to believe what you believe but its all based on belief and faith and you have no way to prove anything that youve said.. none of it makes sense.. none of it is necessary..... God doesnt need a Son to forgive anything from anyone... God is God.. God can do anything He wants.

God never talked to any man??? I guess you missed when God talked to Adam, Moses, Abraham, and Noah... Theres a bunch more by the way.

I dont need a middleman to pray to God nor to confess my sins... Any man trying to hide anything from God is quite the nut...

The Bible itself is a collection of works made by man.. its not perfect. its fallible like anything else we make. Your belief system prevents you from critically thinking about the subject.. the explanations you give are no different than when American Indians asked the question of what cause thunder and they said "the Thunderbird"

 

[RJB]

the explanations you give are no different than when American Indians asked the question of what cause thunder and they said "the Thunderbird"

I wouldn't recommend that.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Christianity
The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Christianity

 

[Sola_Fide]

Well, you don't understand the holiness of God, God's law, or actually anything else about Christianity. God can't "just forgive" sin because in doing so, His law would be unfulfilled, meaning He would not be a just judge.

But God is a just judge, and His law must be fulfilled. Jesus lived a perfect life and His righteousness is imputed to the elect so the law is fulfilled on their behalf, so they stand in the presence of God as completely sinless and just. This is what Christianity is.

theres so much fail in your post I dont even think I can address it all... its okay to believe what you believe but its all based on belief and faith and you have no way to prove anything that youve said.. none of it makes sense.. none of it is necessary..... God doesnt need a Son to forgive anything from anyone... God is God.. God can do anything He wants.

God never talked to any man??? I guess you missed when God talked to Adam, Moses, Abraham, and Noah... Theres a bunch more by the way.

I dont need a middleman to pray to God nor to confess my sins... Any man trying to hide anything from God is quite the nut...

The Bible itself is a collection of works made by man.. its not perfect. its fallible like anything else we make. Your belief system prevents you from critically thinking about the subject.. the explanations you give are no different than when American Indians asked the question of what cause thunder and they said "the Thunderbird"

Did you read my post? Yes, the perfect righteousness of Christ is absolutely necessary for a man to be saved. Why? Because God has an eternal moral law that must be fulfilled. God would not be holy or just if He did not enforce His law.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Christianity
The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

And right on cue, there's the misinformed garbage.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Did you read my post? Yes, the perfect righteousness of Christ is absolutely necessary for a man to be saved. Why? Because God has an eternal moral law that must be fulfilled. God would not be holy or just if He did not enforce His law.

only if you believe it.

 

[liveandletlive]

And right on cue, there's the misinformed garbage.

lol come on, gotta have a sense of humor.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

lol come on, gotta have a sense of humor.

yeah it is kinda funny... American Indians get their religion insulted like this all the time... and yet how offensive it is to be on the receiving end

 

[Sola_Fide]

only if you believe it.

No. Truth is truth whether you believe it or not. You already know in your heart that you must give an account of your life when you die. All men know this.

You right now know in your heart that you must give an account. What you don't know is that the account you'll give won't be enough to escape judgement. Only Christians have this knowledge.

 

[Sola_Fide]

lol come on, gotta have a sense of humor.

It's funny in a way. It's so ridiculously off the mark that any Christian would get a laugh out of it, but at the same time truly pity those internet atheists who have such a poor knowledge of Christianity that they think this represents something true about it.

 

[Brett85]

Trivial issue.

 

[erowe1]

1) There's no biblical evidence that Jesus was born on December 25th.

According to multiple scholarly sources I've seen, Julius Africanus dated Jesus' conception to March 25, and thus his birth to around Dec. 25. I haven't been able to find the passage. But I think it must be in an edition of his works that includes more fragments than are available in the older public domain ones.

 

[pcosmar]

According to multiple scholarly sources I've seen, Julius Africanus dated Jesus' conception to March 25, and thus his birth to around Dec. 25. I haven't been able to find the passage. But I think it must be in an edition of his works that includes more fragments than are available in the older public domain ones.

Hundreds of years after The death of Christ,, some Roman said he could date it..

But scripture does not.

nice attempt at an argument though.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

yeah it is kinda funny... American Indians get their religion insulted like this all the time... and yet how offensive it is to be on the receiving end

Just perusing this thread I notice you have a habit of erecting strawmen. This is not conducive to productive dialogue, FYI.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Exactly. It wasn't. You can make a Biblical argument that there is no particular day of worship, but or that one should worship on all days, but not that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. But people will try anyway.

It's interesting-in Russian, the word for Saturday is Суббота, which is synonymous with "Sabbath". Sunday is called "Воскресенье"-"Resurrection Day", derived from the root word воскресь-"to resurrect".

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Christianity
The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Christianity

 

[heavenlyboy34]

FWIW, theres no reason for God to have a son who has to die in order for us to be forgiven for sins.

It doesnt add up.

That being said there is a book called "The Case for Christ".. i had gotten it from a friend some years ago and it was one of those books I just could not put down until the first 50-60 pages and my gf at the time misplaced it... anyway since I found it again Ill finish reading it.. Its a very fascinating read correlating all sort of historical documents that pertain to Jesus etc...


But that doesnt make him God.

Even as a little kid when I pray I pray to God the Father.. just go straight to the top.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Nestorianism

 

[pcosmar]

Ah, so maybe the state religion of the pagan Satanic Roman Empire made Christmas pagan. That would figure.

I think it is the worlds attempt to obfuscate the event. to distort and abuse the significance and Majesty of the event.

Traditions develop over time,,from families to communities.. Christmas is an accepted Tradition,, regardless of it's roots.

Recognize it as you will.. with reverence,, or conspicuous consumption.

or ignore it altogether

I can't do that,,
So for me it is a day to recognize that God became man,, and all that entails.