Walmart Strike

[pathtofreedom]

lolwut?

I have heard many arguments that you have to join a union. So what if a employer wants to set up a closed shop let them. Right to work laws dictating open shops are anti-freedom.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I have heard many arguments that you have to join a union. So what if a employer wants to set up a closed shop let them. Right to work laws dictating open shops are anti-freedom.

You've seen arguments that I have to join a union? That's funny considering I've never made any such arguments. I was really just commenting on the incoherence of your spelling, grammar, and sentence structure. It was atrocious. You can call me a grammar nazi all you want, but I don't think anyone is actually capable of understanding what the first half of that post was actually saying because it was so terrible.

 

[cindy25]

if unions are not a solution to low wage de facto monopolies such as Wal Mart then what is?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

 

[bolil]

There is nothing wrong with a union. There IS something wrong with unions having the power of legitimate force at their disposal. Walmart employees are free to unionize and strike just as Walmart is free to fire them and hire a bunch of teenagers willing to 'work' for less.

I find it ironic that Walmart became the powerhouse it is with union dollars. If I had a nickel for every Merican flag wearing idgit I saw shopping at walmart, I wouldn't need to shop there anymore. Those flag shirts were made in Taiwan, btw. Working class people shop at Walmart, I do all the time. Furthermore, there are not to many businesses that will let a down and out person sleep in their parking lot for free... Walmart happens to be one of them.

Anyone that want's to force Walmart to pay their employees better is free to organize a boycott.

Cindy, some jobs just don't produce enough value of any kind to warrant a 'living wage'. The real question is why has the dollar become so fucking worthless?

 

[Carson]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/walmart-protest-movement_n_3354735.html
http://www.thenation.com/blog/174551/walmart-workers-launch-first-ever-prolonged-strikes-today
Hopefully the workers get something more than the artificially subsidized wages that they get. Overall unions have been greatly weakened by right to work laws and anti-union regulations.

I wish them luck.

I've had a love hate relationship with unions most of my life. There seems to be a time for all things. Right now I'm thinking the counterfeited dollar is backing the divide and conquer principle. Well that and the loot the resources and bring in illegal labor to exploit them, but who is keeping track?

 

[anaconda]

I don't see what is wrong with striking. They aren't asking for government privileges. I get that there will always be rich people but it shouldn't mean a small group of people owning the majority of the world's resources.

Striking is a voluntary libertarian authorized activity.

 

[Ignostic?]

I have a good friend that works at Walmart and he's paid more than enough to survive. He's good with money, though. He recently got married and bought a house. No welfare of any sort. He's actually doing better off than just about all my friends that graduated college since he doesn't have any student loans to pay off.

 

[Feelgood]

@pathtofreedom

There is not single libertarian minded, freedom loving individual, on planet earth that could or would endorse unions or strikes. They are un-Constitutional and a cancer on America. As much as I loathe Rush Limbaugh, he was absolutely right when he said that GM was nothing more then a pension/retirement company that makes cars. The unions destroyed GM.

As for Walmart, I worked there for about 6 months, about 20 years ago. One of the worst jobs I have ever had. I worked the night crew that stocked the shelves all night. People were griping all the time, of pay and hours etc. Management got wind of it, sat us all down for a meeting. They told us all straight up, we agreed to work there, and to accept the wages we were offered. No one is forcing us to work there, and we were free to quit anytime we chose. I stood up, told him he was absolutely right, and thanked him. I then walked to the back of the store, clocked out, left and never looked back.

Bottom line, no one makes them work there, if they dont like their working conditions, pay or anything else they are free to quit and leave. I don't really want to hear any more of your bleeding heart, liberal dribble. Your posts make me want to puke. I hope if they do strike, they ALL lose their jobs. I hope to God, the Walmart CEO does to them, exactly what Reagan did to the ATC's that went on strike. FIRE THEM ALL!

 

[angelatc]

if unions are not a solution to low wage de facto monopolies such as Wal Mart then what is?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

I don't read things on the Huffington Post - they're a liberal site that doesn't deserve traffic. But the answer to the question is Immigration control and import tariffs.

 

[UWDude]

@pathtofreedom

There is not single libertarian minded, freedom loving individual, on planet earth that could or would endorse unions or strikes. They are un-Constitutional and a cancer on America. As much as I loathe Rush Limbaugh, he was absolutely right when he said that GM was nothing more then a pension/retirement company that makes cars. The unions destroyed GM.

As for Walmart, I worked there for about 6 months, about 20 years ago. One of the worst jobs I have ever had. I worked the night crew that stocked the shelves all night. People were griping all the time, of pay and hours etc. Management got wind of it, sat us all down for a meeting. They told us all straight up, we agreed to work there, and to accept the wages we were offered. No one is forcing us to work there, and we were free to quit anytime we chose. I stood up, told him he was absolutely right, and thanked him. I then walked to the back of the store, clocked out, left and never looked back.

Bottom line, no one makes them work there, if they dont like their working conditions, pay or anything else they are free to quit and leave. I don't really want to hear any more of your bleeding heart, liberal dribble. Your posts make me want to puke. I hope if they do strike, they ALL lose their jobs. I hope to God, the Walmart CEO does to them, exactly what Reagan did to the ATC's that went on strike. FIRE THEM ALL!

And did your family starve when you just up and quit your job?

... because people with rent and responsibilities don't just up and walk away from jobs.

 

[angelatc]

I have heard many arguments that you have to join a union. So what if a employer wants to set up a closed shop let them. Right to work laws dictating open shops are anti-freedom.

Yeah, the unions tried that spin in Michigan, and even the liberals laughed.

 

[anaconda]

@pathtofreedom

There is not single libertarian minded, freedom loving individual, on planet earth that could or would endorse unions or strikes. They are un-Constitutional and a cancer on America.

Why can't a group of citizens decide to do, or not do, something in unison? You don't have to buy their product or service. And, how are unions & strikes "unconstitutional?"

I would imagine that GM's board of directors and a dose of government policy killed the company.

 

[Michigan11]

jeez people, looks like we fell for another side show again.

Debating unions of workers is like unions of gays, none of it affects us.

Let' move on.

 

[Ender]

Why can't a group of citizens decide to do, or not do, something in unison? You don't have to buy their product or service. And, how are unions & strikes "unconstitutional?"

I would imagine that GM's board of directors and a dose of government policy killed the company.

Obviously you do not understand what a union is. Here's part of an article that tells the truth:

A History of Labor Unions From Colonial Times to 2009
by Morgan Reynolds
An Economic Conclusion

While the basic facts of labor history are well known to industrial relations specialists and labor historians, their proper interpretation is not. Most labor historians believe that what is good for unions is good for all labor. This belief underlies pro-union statist interventions in markets for labor but is entirely false, as economic reasoning and evidence prove beyond reasonable doubt.

First, when labor combinations or cartels capture monopoly control over whom employers can hire and impose higher wage rates, the number of jobs available in these companies and industries declines. This is the simple result of the law of demand: when unions raise the price of labor, employers purchase less of it. While an increase in labor productivity can partially offset higher labor cost, labor productivity cannot be raised cheaply or it would have been done already. Unions clearly are an anticompetitive force in labor markets.

Second, workers priced out of work by unions remain unemployed or obtain jobs at nonunion companies. A larger labor supply depresses wage rates there, so union wage rates come partially at the expense of lower nonunion wages.

Third, cartels flourish only where rewards are high and organizational costs low. Highly paid craft workers (known as the “aristocrats of labor”) organized historically instead of “downtrodden,” low-wage workers because they met two conditions:

• Union wage rates often decreased employment relatively little because demand for skilled workers was “inelastic,” that is, employment levels were relatively “insensitive” to changes in wage rates, at least in the short run.
• Craft workers also could organize at low cost because they were few in number, had a common mindset, low turnover, and few or geographically concentrated employers.

Many early economists who sympathized with unions knew unionization could succeed only if restricted to a minority of workers but they endorsed unions as a device to benefit a visible group and ignored the consequences for everybody else, especially wage earners outside the unions. These economists probably wanted to gain a hearing rather than being dismissed as “mean spirited.” That left the field to a handful of truth-tellers like W.H. Hutt and Sylvester Petro. Ludwig von Mises set the standard for advocating the blunt truth with no bow toward labor mythology: “No one has ever succeeded in the effort to demonstrate that unionism could improve the conditions and raise the standard of living of all those eager to earn wages.”

Perhaps the most astounding feature revealed by this history of American unionism is that U.S. labor markets continue to work as well as they do. Despite all the union privileges and immunities granted and a never-ending stream of federal labor interventions, the famous flexibility of U.S. labor markets remains, a truly remarkable fact. And the vast majority of American workers remain stubbornly nonunion despite the best efforts of labor unions, the federal government, its court intellectuals and mass media.

You'll find the rest here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds21.1.html

 

[pathtofreedom]

@pathtofreedom

You are obviously a clueless douche, and a plant. There is not single libertarian minded, freedom loving individual, on planet earth that could or would endorse unions or strikes.
How am I a douche? Choosing to strike or join a union is not anti-freedom at all. Unions enhance people's freedom and they are example of self-regulation in the market place. People would "say without labor laws how would we have x, y, or z?" I always say private unions provide those things.
They are un-Constitutional and a cancer on America. As much as I loathe Rush Limbaugh, he was absolutely right when he said that GM was nothing more then a pension/retirement company that makes cars. The unions destroyed GM.
The constitution does not prohibit unions. The constitution allows freedom of speech and freedom of petition which are basic human rights. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its unconstitutional. I was glad to see General Motors fail they are a crap company who has wronged the world they created the Nazi empire and destroyed valuable electric rail systems nationwide. Fuck General motors.
As for Walmart, I worked there for about 6 months, about 20 years ago. One of the worst jobs I have ever had. I worked the night crew that stocked the shelves all night. People were griping all the time, of pay and hours etc. Management got wind of it, sat us all down for a meeting. They told us all straight up, we agreed to work there, and to accept the wages we were offered. No one is forcing us to work there, and we were free to quit anytime we chose. I stood up, told him he was absolutely right, and thanked him. I then walked to the back of the store, clocked out, left and never looked back.
Even you admit the conditions there are crap. Nobody makes you work there but there is nothing wrong with wanting better conditions. You can also choose to risk it and strike.
Bottom line, no one makes them work there, if they dont like their working conditions, pay or anything else they are free to quit and leave. I don't really want to hear any more of your bleeding heart, liberal dribble. Your posts make me want to puke. I hope if they do strike, they ALL lose their jobs. I hope to God, the Walmart CEO does to them, exactly what Reagan did to the ATC's that went on strike. FIRE THEM ALL!

Why would want people to be fired? People are free to leave they are also free to strike or form a union. Not everybody wants what is shoved down there throat. Not everybody wants to work for more than 10 hours a day. Not everyone wants to be a worker drone. I am not a "liberal" in the modern sense modern liberals are just fascists who have hijacked that term.

 

[Ender]

Why would want people to be fired? People are free to leave they are also free to strike or form a union. Not everybody wants what is shoved down there throat. Not everybody wants to work for more than 10 hours a day. Not everyone wants to be a worker drone. I am not a "liberal" in the modern sense modern liberals are just fascists who have hijacked that term.

Unions were originally started by the "leftists" of their day. The unions were mafia-type organizations- they still are, except now they have gov approval.

 

[pathtofreedom]

Unions were originally started by the "leftists" of their day. The unions were mafia-type organizations- they still are, except now they have gov approval.

Erm ok. How are they mafia type organizations? They are codified by government and some get government privileges sounds like how corporations are codified and some get government privileges.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Unions are not part of the problem they are an example of market forces at work.

In theory, yes? In current practice? Hell no. When a company is forced to deal with a union and HAS to listen to proposal's that the union puts forth and consider them, then that's not market forces; that's giving the union power to force companies' hands.

If unions weren't protected by the NLRB and government regulations, then I'd be ok with them, but they're highly sheltered at the moment.

 

[UWDude]

In theory, yes? In current practice? Hell no. When a company is forced to deal with a union and HAS to listen to proposal's that the union puts forth and consider them, then that's not market forces; that's giving the union power to force companies' hands.

If unions weren't protected by the NLRB and government regulations, then I'd be ok with them, but they're highly sheltered at the moment.

Companies and corporations are sheltered too. Owners and shareholders don't get sentenced for manslaughter if their cheap or poorly maintained machines chew up one of their workers. They don't personally get sued if their oil rig explodes and destroys the gulf of Mexico. They don't have to pay anything if their products give people cancer.

 

[anaconda]

Obviously you do not understand what a union is.

Perhaps you would like to retract your impulsive and condescending statement.

I am aware that unions create unemployment at the margins, raise labor costs to producers, lower producer output, and reduce social welfare inasmuch as we define this as the sum of consumer and producer surplus. Which seems to be the essence of your Lew Rockwell article.

As long as a union does not use force to prevent producers from hiring non-union labor, use force to limit mobility to or from union membership, or conspire with governments there is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it. Unions can be peaceful and voluntary associations. I don't like them much, but neither do I like smoking or certain kinds of music. People are free to sell themselves and their labor as they see fit, and may discriminate regarding their associations with coworkers.

You are free to vote with your consumer dollars.

And the UAW can strike until all of the auto manufacturing moves to South Korea and Japan, and the only job for the U.S. auto workers is at the new Walmart that opens in their town.