Vivek Ramaswamy’s 2024 POTUS campaign

[Swordsmyth]

You sir, are no lover of liberty.

You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.

Said as a joke, but it's true.
Only he already did the research and only acknowledges the facts that suit his agenda.

 

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/marlene4719/status/1693006284503572949

Oh, wait ...

​

... now it makes sense ...

"'Our democracy' is always code for 'our hegemony'." -- Michael Malice
​

 

[CaptUSA]

Not sure I'll be able to bear this, but for your viewing... uh... pleasure??

 

[acptulsa]

Only he already did the research and only acknowledges the facts that suit his agenda.

Do you ever accuse others of things of which you are not yourself guilty?

I might listen to your standard blanket denial, if you tell us all about Operation Warp Speed first.

 

[Snowball]

(illegals are outlaws who have refused to be subject to our jurisdiction) grants citizenship and its benefits, it does not and cannot grant Natural Born Citizenship and its benefits.
Knock it off with the living constitution garbage.

That is not true. Vivek's parents were already legal residents and his father was a General Electric executive in Cincinnati.
Many immigrants are not outlaws. Migrants here who willingly are subject to our jurisdiction, if they have children born here, those children are eligible for president someday if they meet the other requirements.

Kamala Harris is president today if Biden becomes incapacitated.

You might not like it but that is the truth.

 

[PAF]

That is not true. Vivek's parents were already legal residents and his father was a General Electric executive in Cincinnati.
Many immigrants are not outlaws. Migrants here who willingly are subject to our jurisdiction, if they have children born here, those children are eligible for president someday if they meet the other requirements.

Kamala Harris is president today if Biden becomes incapacitated.

You might not like it but that is the truth.

I am open borders, but not for the reasons that are assumed by some. I do not endorse "papers please" or freebies provided by tax payers. I do believe in the freedom to travel freely, to work, vacation, visit relatives and none of your stinking business. If a crime has been committed, there are laws already in place to deal with that on a case-by-case basis.

As far as citizenship, and the ability to run for office, especially for POTUS:

The normal path to becoming a naturalized U.S. Citizen takes five years. Vivek Ramaswamy was born in 1985. His father and mother emigrated from India to the USA about 40 years ago per the April 3rd, 2023 article in the Washington Post. Calculating back from 2023, that yields the immigration year to the USA for Vivek’s parents as being about 1983. Allowing +-2 years, i.e., 1981-1985 for that calculated “about” year of 1983 for the deduced year of immigration to the USA, there was not sufficient time for either of Vivek’s parents to become naturalized U.S. Citizens when Vivek was born in 1985, since it required at least five years to become a naturalized U.S. Citizen.


Before you can apply for naturalization, you must meet certain eligibility requirements.

To be eligible for naturalization based on being a lawful permanent resident for at least five years, you must:

* Be at least 18 years old when you submit Form N-400, Application for Naturalization;

* Show you have been a lawfully admitted permanent resident of the United States for at least five years;

* Demonstrate continuous residence in the United States for at least five years immediately before the date you file Form N-400

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?563121-Vivek-Ramaswamy-On-The-Record

 

[Snowball]

I am open borders, but not for the reasons that are assumed by some. I do not endorse "papers please" or freebies provided by tax payers. I do believe in the freedom to travel freely, to work, vacation, visit relatives and none of your stinking business. If a crime has been committed, there are laws already in place to deal with that on a case-by-case basis.

As far as citizenship, and the ability to run for office, especially for POTUS:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?563121-Vivek-Ramaswamy-On-The-Record

Natural-IZATION of the parents is not relevant here. They aren't running for president, but if they were:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

^ "or" differentiates Citizen from "natural born Citizen". "Fourteen years a Resident" cannot apply to a "natural born Citizen", but to a NON-natural born person, not born in the U.S., but then meeting "fourteen years a Resident", born, say, in England or another country, but been here 14 years, over 35 years old, and a Citizen by assent.

So, Vivek's father would have become eligible fourteen years after his Residency, NOT his naturalization. as long as he becomes a Citizen at some point before swearing in. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S1-C5-1/ALDE_00013692/

On to Vivek's case:

"Under the 14th Amendment's Naturalization Clause and the Supreme Court case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 US. 649, anyone born on U.S. soil and subject to its jurisdiction is a natural born citizen, regardless of parental citizenship. This type of citizenship is referred to as birthright citizenship.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen

it is settled law.

 

[PAF]

Aside from the Bill of Rights (which don’t go far enough), I don’t even care for the constitution. But, for the law and order folks and admirers of the centralist document, at least stand on principles:

http://14th-amendment.com/Miscellan..._Not_Ratified/14th_Amendment_Not_Ratified.pdf

 

[Intrepid]

 

[PAF]

1. Vivek stated that he and his family never owned guns their entire lives. So the question is, did he buy a gun before, or after, he registered as a Republican and filed to run for POTUS?

2. Vivek stated that we have a mental health epidemic across America, and mentions banning social media from people under 15 or 16... instead of taking guns away.

3. Vivek mentions fentanyl, but failed to mention the failed and remarketed drugs that he pushed through the FDA (around the time the PREP Act was invoked?) and sold to human beings to make his fortune.

4. Vivek wants to shut down the FBI (<--I am all for it, but not for this-->) and replace it with a "Police Apparatus", so that said Police Apparatus can actually do the job of Background Checks.

5. Vivek wants to eliminate the FedDeptEd (<--I am all for it, but not for this-->) and use part of that money to put 3 LEO in every school.

 

[Swordsmyth]

That is not true. Vivek's parents were already legal residents and his father was a General Electric executive in Cincinnati.
Many immigrants are not outlaws. Migrants here who willingly are subject to our jurisdiction, if they have children born here, those children are eligible for president someday if they meet the other requirements.

Kamala Harris is president today if Biden becomes incapacitated.

You might not like it but that is the truth.

Stop editing my posts to remove the context.
Ramaswampy is a citizen, a 14thA citizen.
His parents were not citizens so he cannot be a Natural Born Citizen.
Only those born here to citizens are eligible.
You are pushing leftist garbage.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Do you ever accuse others of things of which you are not yourself guilty?

I might listen to your standard blanket denial, if you tell us all about Operation Warp Speed first.

LOL

I have told you about it many times.
You are the one projecting.

 

[Intrepid]

Stop editing my posts to remove the context.
Ramaswampy is a citizen, a 14thA citizen.
His parents were not citizens so he cannot be a Natural Born Citizen.
Only those born here to citizens are eligible.
You are pushing leftist garbage.

I'm afraid you are mistaken about that Swordsmyth.

If you are a US citizen, you are either a natural born citizen, or an immigrant that requires naturalization.

A "natural born citizen" is one who is a US citizen AT BIRTH and therefore does not have to go thru naturalization to become a citizen (as legal immigrants do).

You can be a US citizen at birth if:

1. You were born on US soil and subject to US jurisdiction.
2. You were born abroad and at the time of your birth at least one of your parents was a US citizen.

To be a natural born citizen, if you were born on US soil, there is NO REQUIREMENT that your parents be US citizens at the time of your birth.

Harvard Law Review:
https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/vol-128/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/#footnote-1

Cornell Law School:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen

 

[Swordsmyth]

I'm afraid you are mistaken about that Swordsmyth.

If you are a US citizen, you are either a natural born citizen, or an immigrant that requires naturalization.

A "natural born citizen" is one who is a US citizen AT BIRTH and therefore does not have to go thru naturalization to become a citizen (as legal immigrants do).

You can be a US citizen at birth if:

1. You were born on US soil and subject to US jurisdiction.
2. You were born abroad and at the time of your birth at least one of your parents was a US citizen.

To be a natural born citizen, if you were born on US soil, there is NO REQUIREMENT that your parents be US citizens at the time of your birth.

Harvard Law Review:
https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/vol-128/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/#footnote-1

Cornell Law School:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen

It is you who are mistaken.
The NBC designation the Founders used came from Vattel, Vattel defined it as those born here to citizen parents.
14thA citizens are naturalized at birth by the 14thA which is human legislation and not nature.

Historical Originalist analysis here: https://www.thepostemail.com/2021/05...ocket-20-1503/

 

[Intrepid]

It is you who are mistaken.
The NBC designation the Founders used came from Vattel, Vattel defined it as those born here to citizen parents.
14thA citizens are naturalized at birth by the 14thA which is human legislation and not nature.

Historical Originalist analysis here: https://www.thepostemail.com/2021/05...ocket-20-1503/

OMG you're gonna source a douchbag article written by a douchbag over Harvard Law School and Cornell Law School? Who do you think the supreme court justices would consider the more authoritative source?

And the founders got it from Vattel... says who? the douchebag article? LOL

Seriously, that article is ridiculous.

It's really not a complicated issue. In fact it is so NOT complicated the founders didn't even think they needed to spell it out explicitly.

You are a natural born citizen if you were a citizen AT BIRTH and thus have no need to be naturalized.

Simple.

"If you can't explain it simply then you probably do not understand it well enough." --Albert Einstein

 

[acptulsa]

It is you who are mistaken.
The NBC designation the Founders used came from Vattel, Vattel defined it as those born here to citizen parents.
14thA citizens are naturalized at birth by the 14thA which is human legislation and not nature.

...And not nature?

So, is the Constitution human legislation? Or did God decree slavery and valuing people as equal to two thirds of another person?

You think God decrees human government? When you need relief, do you spool up porn or just read Romans for inspiration?

God doesn't really like to be cursed because humans do stupid things. I haven't read every word of the Old Testament, but I read that much. Don't blame Him for Trump. Responsibility for that fiasco falls squarely on people just like you.

 

[Snowball]

It is you who are mistaken.
The NBC designation the Founders used came from Vattel, Vattel defined it as those born here to citizen parents.
14thA citizens are naturalized at birth by the 14thA which is human legislation and not nature.

Historical Originalist analysis here: https://www.thepostemail.com/2021/05...ocket-20-1503/

You ignored my post and called me a liberal because you lost the argument. It IS settled law.
The Constitution clarifies, for non-natural born citizens, to be "fourteen years a resident".
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...paign-Launch&p=7187367&viewfull=1#post7187367

The article you posted is ridiculous. Who cares whether the translation of the French "indigenes" from a 1758 work by de Vattel did not appear in English translation as "natural born" until after John Jay wrote to Washington, on July 25, 1787, “Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolved on, any but a natural born Citizen.”, or that the pre-Constitutional Commonwealth of Massachusetts alternated between "natural born subjects" and "natural born citizens"?

Jay didn't want ADULT FOREIGNERS coming here to be elected POTUS. This was WHY the "Fourteen Years a Resident" stipulation was part of the Constitution. He wasn't thinking about babies being born on American soil in 1787, who 36 years later would be eligible for the presidency. Born here is NATURAL BORN. There are exceptions only (case below): "with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes." (and that last one was removed in 1924).

This matter was settled in United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898). A Chinese anchor baby was deemed by the SCOTUS to be a "natural born citizen" with all rights accorded by the Constitution including Presidential Eligibility by a VERY conservative 19th century American bench in a 6-2 margin. The notion of "perpetual allegiance" was a British one, not American. And we all know what the Founders thought of that, don't we ???

 

[PAF]

[MENTION=75545]Intrepid[/MENTION] [MENTION=12430]acptulsa[/MENTION] [MENTION=35668]Snowball[/MENTION]

What you are saying is that Islamic Terrorists or Chinese Communists could simply come to the U.S., drop one out, and he/she would be eligible for POTUS, the highest office of the land. Perhaps listen to this short clip to understand what the founders knew and indeed intended - it was common knowledge - until recently.





Outside of that, I am growing bored of the conversation. This country has declined since pen hit the paper, and it is not going to reverse anytime soon; we have evolved into a non-principled society. And government is certainly not going to save us.

 

[Snowball]

[MENTION=75545]Intrepid[/MENTION] [MENTION=12430]acptulsa[/MENTION] [MENTION=35668]Snowball[/MENTION]

What you are saying is that Islamic Terrorists or Chinese Communists could simply come to the U.S., drop one out, and he/she would be eligible for POTUS, the highest office of the land. Perhaps listen to this short clip to understand what the founders knew and indeed intended - it was common knowledge - until recently.

With all due respect, her opinion is irrelevant. We've provided incontrovertible evidence. The discussion is over.

 

[LatinsforPaul]

Ron Paul would be proud...

All I can say after listening to this podcast is I haven't heard such a clear picture of what this country needs since Ron Paul ran for President. By the way, Vivek states why he was a libertarian and is now a conservative.