Virgil Goode Virgil Goode: What's the scoop?

[torchbearer]

how many states' ballots will Goode be on?

 

[torchbearer]

I'm fortunate in that I have the opportunity to vote for Chuck Baldwin, as the Kansas Reform Party decided to nominate him again this time around. I wasn't really enthused about voting for Virgil Goode.

most CP candidates fall short on social issues since they are basically a social conservative party that care only about economic liberty.
they offer half the pie.

 

[cavalier973]

But there won't be an admin. There will only be a campaign. In that campaign he can say whatever he wants about his hypothetical future administration. He could say he'd ask Bono from U2 to be in his admin. It won't matter because he'll never have to make good on the promise.

Then what reasons are there to vote for Johnson rather than Goode?

 

[cavalier973]

most CP candidates fall short on social issues since they are basically a social conservative party that care only about economic liberty.
they offer half the pie.

They oppose the "War on Terror" and the Patriot Act, and support jury nullification. They may not be perfect, but that's more than "only caring about economic liberty."

 

[torchbearer]

Then what reasons are there to vote for Johnson rather than Goode?

Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states. meaning he is the only other candidate besides the status quo that has a black swan's chance of winning.
plus, he offers the full liberty package, not just economic liberty.
and despite his religious bias- he will not govern by it. say no to theocracy disguised as constitutionalism.

 

[torchbearer]

The platform supports jury nullification, which really is a more powerful method than "voting for the right person" to limit the power of gov't.

CP is against gambling, prostitution, and certain drug use.
not exactly a friend of individual liberty.

 

[seyferjm]

I'm fortunate in that I have the opportunity to vote for Chuck Baldwin, as the Kansas Reform Party decided to nominate him again this time around. I wasn't really enthused about voting for Virgil Goode.

Lucky. I still regret not voting for Chuck in 2008.

 

[cavalier973]

Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states. meaning he is the only other candidate besides the status quo that has a black swan's chance of winning.

And that's a good reason; I mentioned earlier that getting Johnson up over 10%, if possible, could entice me to vote for him. Did the LP get on the PA ballot? I heard the GOP was trying to get them kicked off (and successfully got the CP kicked off).

CP is against gambling, prostitution, and certain drug use.
not exactly a friend of individual liberty.

Support of jury nullification undermines those stances. Still, you're right that the LP is already against using gov't to restrict those activities. AND it's also for jury nullification. AND it's for free trade. Hmmm....

 

[torchbearer]

And that's a good reason; I mentioned earlier that getting Johnson up over 10%, if possible, could entice me to vote for him. Did the LP get on the PA ballot? I heard the GOP was trying to get them kicked off (and successfully got the CP kicked off).



Support of jury nullification undermines those stances. Still, you're right that the LP is already against using gov't to restrict those activities. AND it's also for jury nullification. AND it's for free trade. Hmmm....

the LP is for individual rights in all things- that is how those positions come about.
the person over the state.

 

[cavalier973]

the LP is for individual rights in all things- that is how those positions come about.
the person over the state.

Not for the rights of the unborn, unfortunately. In that case, a "person's conscience" should be the guide on whether he can murder another human being or not. Which, as you may have guessed, is really my biggest problem with the LP.

But, you have given me some things to mull over, and I may consider voting for G. Johnson, after all.

 

[torchbearer]

Not for the rights of the unborn, unfortunately. In that case, a "person's conscience" should be the guide on whether he can murder another human being or not. Which, as you may have guessed, is really my biggest problem with the LP.

But, you have given me some things to mull over, and I may consider voting for G. Johnson, after all.

you are misquoting a fallacy.
the LP has no position on abortion as its delegation can't come to an agreement.
half the delegate- you would consider- pro-life.
the other half only disagree as to when that life begins. no one in the LP is for killing a baby.

 

[cavalier973]

you are misquoting a fallacy.
the LP has no position on abortion as its delegation can't come to an agreement.
half the delegate- you would consider- pro-life.
the other half only disagree as to when that life begins. no one in the LP is for killing a baby.

I'm glad to hear it. You're really doing well in your attempt to persuade me. I will now be looking up G. Johnson's stance on the NDAA, the Patriot Act, and the War on Terror. Forgive me if these seem to be issues that I should already know his stance on, but I've been kind of distracted with another candidate for the past several months, and there's a thread somewhere else claiming that GJ is a "statist"...

 

[torchbearer]

I'm glad to hear it. You're really doing well in your attempt to persuade me. I will now be looking up G. Johnson's stance on the NDAA, the Patriot Act, and the War on Terror. Forgive me if these seem to be issues that I should already know his stance on, but I've been kind of distracted with another candidate for the past several months, and there's a thread somewhere else claiming that GJ is a "statist"...

here is where some Ron Paul supporters will not like G.J.
he and ron paul get to the ideas of liberty from different angles.
Ron Paul supports liberty from a philosphical point of view- meaning, we should have liberty because it is our natural right.
G.J.- judging from his past rhetoric, comes to liberty from a utilitarian point of view. we should have liberty because it if the most functional system with most gains.
now, i've noticed G.J. has been listening to and growing from Ron's lectures. but casting aside election time speeches, he got their through utilitarian arguments.
that is the only neg on G.J. with the caveat, he seems to be growing past that(only third hand info from speeches i've seen)

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Johnson already said in a prior debate if he got the nomination Ron would be his vice president. I think it's obvious he'd put Ron in his cabinet...

The only way I'd vote for Johnson would be if he promised to put Ron Paul into his cabinet. He might not be able to say so openly, but he could do the whole "the person I'm looking for for the position of Sec of X will have these qualities" hint, hint, wink wink.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Eh, I don't agree with this and everything I've heard from him doesn't suggest this. GJ takes a business approach to managing government, but he's never viewed liberty like that.

here is where some Ron Paul supporters will not like G.J.
he and ron paul get to the ideas of liberty from different angles.
Ron Paul supports liberty from a philosphical point of view- meaning, we should have liberty because it is our natural right.
G.J.- judging from his past rhetoric, comes to liberty from a utilitarian point of view. we should have liberty because it if the most functional system with most gains.
now, i've noticed G.J. has been listening to and growing from Ron's lectures. but casting aside election time speeches, he got their through utilitarian arguments.
that is the only neg on G.J. with the caveat, he seems to be growing past that(only third hand info from speeches i've seen)

 

[torchbearer]

Eh, I don't agree with this and everything I've heard from him doesn't suggest this. GJ takes a business approach to managing government, but he's never viewed liberty like that.

would you please list examples as to your argument that G.J. only supports liberty in the sense that he thinks the government can run like a business?
and by the way, business in the private sector is an example of a utilitarian view of government. it isn't different from my remarks except for the part that it removes utilitarianism. (though most businesses run on a utility type scheme)

Gary Johnson is anti-war and anti-fed. he is anti-drug war, he is anti-unbalanced budget. he is anti-fiat currency.
what is it you don't like? perhaps its his name or party affiliation? something shallow?

 

[Brett85]

CP is against gambling, prostitution, and certain drug use.
not exactly a friend of individual liberty.

The last time I read the CP platform, it didn't say anything about prostitution. Their stance on drug use is that the federal drug war is unconstitutional, and the issue should reside with the states or with the people. Their position on gambling is that the government shouldn't promote gambling through state lotteries or state owned casionos. That's a libertarian position.

 

[torchbearer]

The last time I read the CP platform, it didn't say anything about prostitution. Their stance on drug use is that the federal drug war is unconstitutional, and the issue should reside with the states or with the people. Their position on gambling is that the government shouldn't promote gambling through state lotteries or state owned casionos. That's a libertarian position.

when is the last time you attended a CP meeting?
anything that goes against the religious beliefs should be outlawed. if you deny this statement- you are a liar.

 

[Brett85]

when is the last time you attended a CP meeting?
anything that goes against the religious beliefs should be outlawed. if you deny this statement- you are a liar.

I'm a Republican; I haven't been to any CP meetings. But they did nominate Chuck Baldwin in 2008, and his views are very much like Ron's views.

 

[torchbearer]

I'm a Republican; I haven't been to any CP meetings. But they did nominate Chuck Baldwin in 2008, and his views are very much like Ron's views.

Chuck Baldwin is close to Paul, but Goode is not close to either.
Chuck almost made an attempt to stay constitutional, even on issues he didn't agree with religiously.
I could feel with Chuck that he would not let personal bias dictate policy. that is not the case with the majority of the CP. how do i know? been to the meetings- had their guys at my meetings. we agree on a lot- but they don't get to liberty from a natural rights position. they see government as an outlet of their theology that is somewhat friendly to liberty except for the parts of putting the ten commandments as the law of the land.(along with their doctrine)