[Video] Is Oil Price Speculation a Bad thing?

[ILUVRP]

many things you say like the above posting you made i agree with 100% , thats why above all i can't understand how you can be against not trading a goverment controlled commodity.

does it not make you wonder why they don't trade on exchanges diamonds ? could it be because of debeers.

the bad guys of the world get their vast majority of funds from the saudies . or should i say $100 and up oil, the higher oil goes the more they get.

also goldman/jpmorgan/fed res /saudies are the ah's of the world .

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

many things you say like the above posting you made i agree with 100% , thats why above all i can't understand how you can be against not trading a goverment controlled commodity.

It's NOT a "government-controlled monopoly" in any economic sense because it CAN'T FORCE you to buy their oil, unlike how US government CAN FORCE you to buy healthcare, & this CHOICE of not to buy is the biggest weapon buyers have in the market, as prices rise, fewer & fewer buyers buy because they've limited amount of money & once the price exceeds the perceived utility derived from a thing, then there's fewer & fewer sales & profits & THAT'S WHY they can't raise prices to $1000 or $million per barrel or whatever
When prices rise, there's extremely high incentive to PRODUCE/SELL MORE so they secure the price by shorting & then go on producing which increases supply to the extent they CAN & that pushes down prices in the future

Let's say there are 10 doctors in a town, now 5 them want to raise prices by "cutting supply", ok, so they reduce work-hours but the other 5 don't! What happens? Yes, ceteris paribus, reduced supply of "doctor-hours" may push prices up but those producing/selling/working MORE will make higher profits at the expense of those who have "cut supply"
That's how it works on the oil-markets too, even if some cut supply, prices may rise temporarily but others will jump on the opportunity & produce/sell MORE & that increases supply & tempers prices, it's only the ones who have cut supply that end up with fewer profits while those who increased supply during higher prices are rewarded with higher profits, this is how markets regulate prices & resources throughout the economy

does it not make you wonder why they don't trade on exchanges diamonds ? could it be because of debeers.

I don't know, they've problem standardizing diamonds, they're not fungible ENOUGH to be standardized but you never know, they might some way of doing it in the future

And besides, even if they were on the exchange, you'd have whined about DeBeers "controlling supply" & therefore demanding a ban on them, etc etc

Even if there's a single seller of something, so long as people have the CHOICE of not buying, he simply can't charge any arbitrary price because buyers have a certain of the utility & price of the product, it's possible to fool some of them some of the times but not everyone all the time & he'll HAVE TO lower prices to the "optimum price" where he maximizes his sales in a way to get profits at a rate that he couldn't have gotten by investing his capital elsewhere; if he raises prices too high, buyers buy much less & gross profits go down, same with selling too low so he'll be looking to hit the "optimum price" somewhere in between

the bad guys of the world get their vast majority of funds from the saudies . or should i say $100 and up oil, the higher oil goes the more they get.

Just stop buying oil, they'll make fewer profits & "bad guys" may receive less money

also goldman/jpmorgan/fed res /saudies are the ah's of the world .

Again, you just don't know how speculation works, it's that simple! Like most people who don't understand economics, you've hard time swallowing the fact that price merely represent PERCEPTION of utility placed on something by buyers & sellers!

Besides, your "solution" doesn't do sh!t anyway! They just move to another exchange outside US & it would lose business for US exchanges & it may raise costs for US hedgers!

Just like a typical pro-government, pro-force guy you're merely saying something because you THINK something good MIGHT come out of it but you've offered no explanation of what & how it accomplishes anything!

And violating property-rights of others just because you THINK it might help you in some way is NOT pro-freedom position

Moreover, why don't you just buy a contract? ANYONE - ANYONE - can do that to protect oneself against price-rise so what's the point of whining about it!

So far as terrorists go, you can never completely defend yourself against EVERY attack, just as when everyone has gun-rights, some might go killing-spree or something but that's NOT a reason for violating people's legitimate liberties, that's the kind of BS that leads to Patriot Act, NDAA, TSA but government should NEVER have the right to violate liberties in the name of safety! Compromising liberties for the sake of ILLUSION OF SAFETY is NOT worth it!
Besides, Ron has already suggested that it may be wise to simply cut any immigration from countries that are likely to expose US to terrorists & that's fine

 

[ILUVRP]

"Besides, your "solution" doesn't do sh!t anyway! They just move to another exchange outside US & it would lose business for US exchanges & it may raise costs for US hedgers!"

i guess you did not take the time to read any of the links i posted , but seeing you are so much smarter than any commodity traders ( that do know what they are talking about ) , you would have read gs/jpmorgan are the big traders on ICE , buying and selling to each other every day at the same price, i would guess they are also pumping on the crude oil exchange in dubai.

as far as your comment about the US losing business , i guess if you call what they are doing as business , i say good-by to them , america would be better off w/o them doing what they do.

as far as the hedgers go , now > 80% of contracts traded are speculators .

fyi i now have stock in a few bakken oil co's and have USO , i would rather see crude oil go to $50-60/ba where it should be anyway, also a silver stock SVM .

don't think you know everything

 

[Aurave]

"Besides, your "solution" doesn't do sh!t anyway! They just move to another exchange outside US & it would lose business for US exchanges & it may raise costs for US hedgers!"

i guess you did not take the time to read any of the links i posted , but seeing you are so much smarter than any commodity traders ( that do know what they are talking about ) , you would have read gs/jpmorgan are the big traders on ICE , buying and selling to each other every day at the same price, i would guess they are also pumping on the crude oil exchange in dubai.

as far as your comment about the US losing business , i guess if you call what they are doing as business , i say good-by to them , america would be better off w/o them doing what they do.

as far as the hedgers go , now > 80% of contracts traded are speculators .

fyi i now have stock in a few bakken oil co's and have USO , i would rather see crude oil go to $50-60/ba where it should be anyway, also a silver stock SVM .

don't think you know everything

Don't think you know anything.

 

[ILUVRP]

over time we will see how right i am .

everyone has their own ideas about what is wrong , thats what makes this country so great.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

"Besides, your "solution" doesn't do sh!t anyway! They just move to another exchange outside US & it would lose business for US exchanges & it may raise costs for US hedgers!"

i guess you did not take the time to read any of the links i posted , but seeing you are so much smarter than any commodity traders ( that do know what they are talking about ) , you would have read gs/jpmorgan are the big traders on ICE , buying and selling to each other every day at the same price, i would guess they are also pumping on the crude oil exchange in dubai.

You're so pathetically ignorant, it's not even funny!

Them buying/selling has NOTHING to do with prices, if there's shortage in the supply of oil then prices will automatically go up & if there's a fall in demand then prices will fall

You keep believing the "experts", the so called "experts" that defend a stupid centrally-planned monetary regime, regulationism, welfare-state, violation of liberties & what not

as far as your comment about the US losing business , i guess if you call what they are doing as business , i say good-by to them , america would be better off w/o them doing what they do.

What right do you or the government have to violate someone's property-rights? Should government tell YOU what you should grow on your farm or what you should do in your house?

You're a typical commie, you've no respect for others' rights, they're expendable to you so long as you get some (imagined) benefit, it's people like who have no respect for others' rights that's why the country is such a bad shape!

as far as the hedgers go , now > 80% of contracts traded are speculators .

Oh boy, you're ignorant! It'll destroy the liquidity & volumes if there are no speculators, & there will be massive moves in prices in short spells; that was the original problem for which futures markets were brought in but you're either too dumb or too lazy to learn about such basic things, you'd rather rely on "experts" rather than actually do some research & learning on your own

fyi i now have stock in a few bakken oil co's and have USO , i would rather see crude oil go to $50-60/ba where it should be anyway, also a silver stock SVM .

You're so ignorant, it's not even funny!

don't think you know everything

I definitely don't claim to know everything but it should be clear to everyone that YOU don't know ANYTHING about economics, futures market & speculation

Don't think you know anything.

He's a typical commie, low IQ, unable to grasp more complicated issues, already has his mind made up based on propaganda & seeks to justify violation of others' liberties due to some (imaginary) benefit he thinks he'll have

over time we will see how right i am .

everyone has their own ideas about what is wrong , thats what makes this country so great.

What made the country so great is PROPERTY-RIGHTS, something which you don't believe in, you believe & support government dictatorship just because you TIHNK it'll confer some (imaginary) benefit upon you; it's just typical communist mentality of overt self-centeredness & willingness to sacrifice others for their own (imaginary) benefit

 

[ILUVRP]

paul or zero , you are really as dumb as a bag of rocks , you have been standing in the kool-aid too long , its getting hot outside , put on a hat.

its your ass-hole SCOTUS that said my house could be taken from me and a shopping center could be built . so much for your property rights .

its your ass-hole sc that said our elections don't count , put W in as potus and get 4500 gi's killed for nothing.

i honestly think you are a limpball shill. some day you will learn what is going on , but by then you will have forgotten where you read it .

i am very happy people like you were not in the military , it could be you tried to get in but was 4f , who knows ?

do you know anyone that is not a commmmmmmmmmie , i doubt it , you are a very stupid person or a banker , i don't know which.

 

[awake]

Speculators are serving a critical pricing function - rapid price adjustment so as to properly regulate, ration and allocate scarce resources. The inflationary counterfeiters have a long list of scape goats to distract from what it is they are doing, the "evil speculator" is one of their favorite.

Ben Bernanke is where the fingers should be pointed; the congress spending queens are a close second.

 

[The Free Hornet]

the difference is, speculators are using the gas to line their pockets, americans are using gas to fill up their cars... speculation is just that, you aren't actually planning on using the good for anything, just selling it, and thus keeping it from people who need it, that's called greed where I'm from and is what led us into this mess.

Why should you have to fill up a tank to buy oil (gas)? The paper market allows you to buy what you need at the price you want without taking physical delivery. Imagine a farm that uses 1000 gallons of diesel each year. The farmer is concerned with the price going up so he buys on the futures market (speculates). He only has a 100 gallon diesel tank so he never intends to take delivery of all 1000 gallons nor does he want to incur the cost of a 1000 gallon tank (rather he will buy 10 times over the course of a season). The farmer does want price stability and the futures market is how you buy that (innoculation to price fluctuations). He buys 10 contracts for 100 gallons each within the time frame for which he will take delivery. If oil had risen in price, he pays more at the pump but that is offset by the rise in his futures contracts. If oil has fallen in price, he pays less at the pump but that is offset by the worth less-ness or worthlessness of the contracts.

If you think people are being greedy, then are you willing to put your money on the line? You can donate all proceeds to charity. Speculation is a buyer AND a seller. Which is the greedy one?

Also, if you limited this market to only those who have government-approved "justification" (which is exactly what those suggest a ban want, whether they know it or not), then you harm the liquidity of the market and increase the cost to those who have a rational to use the services.

Man how I wish the housing market had more liquidity! Liquidity is a really fucking important thing.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Speculation is a force of good in the markets. To illustrate that, consider this hypothetical scenario. Say that a major middle eastern oil producing country is in the midst of political turmoil which could jeopardize production and/or sales of its oil on the global markets. This has happened many times before.

Without speculators, and if only the immediate consumption of oil was the driver of oil prices, oil prices would remain roughly where they were right up until the day the event occurs in said country. When oil production grinds to a halt in said country and supply is strangled, oil prices would shoot up practically overnight worldwide. A side effect of this huge increase in the price of oil is that it would immediately trigger oil companies to begin ramping up production and considering expanding their exploration for new oil wells. The reason for this is that when the price of oil rises, oil wells that were previously too expensive or difficult to reach now become attractive (profitable opportunities) to the oil companies.

Here is the huge problem with this scenario where speculators do not exist. Because there were no speculators in the market slowly bidding up the price of oil as the stifling of production in said country became more and more likely as we approached the date of the "event", oil companies were not given that vital signal from the markets in advance, in the form of higher oil prices, that more production was needed. Thus, there is now a huge delay of weeks, if not months, for the oil that comes from the oil companies increasing production to enter the markets and increase supply. Huge price shocks like these would cause devastating effects in vulnerable companies and industries, since these businesses can't take measures to prepare for them for a price shock like this that occurs almost overnight like they could for a gradual increase in commodity prices over time. Speculators on the other hand would bid up the price of oil in advance in small increments, thus sending that signal to the markets early that more production may be needed in the future. This greatly reduces the volatility in oil prices over time as well as the occurrence of price shocks.

And if that example isn't enough for you or whoever you are trying to educate about the beneficial role of speculators in the market, then consider this. There are two sides to every trade, a short and a long position. If Goldman Sachs suddenly decides overnight that they want to buy up oil contracts and jack up the prices, there are hundreds or thousands of other firms running their own models showing that there is no fundamental (ie macro) basis for the rapid rise in oil prices. These people will then take the opposite side of the trade from Goldman - akin to a short position, where shares are borrowed and sold, driving prices back down to their former levels. Goldman is left holding the bag, and those short traders have now made bank, betting on a decrease in the price of oil. In fact, since a rise in oil prices reduces the demand for oil, the consumers alone will screw over Goldman's plans by consuming less oil. Speculation can work both ways, and a market where both sides of the trade can be taken ensures that it can't be used simply to drive up the price of a valuable commodity like oil.

This^^ EVERYTHING is speculating-even holding dollars or crossing a busy street.

 

[ILUVRP]

Why should you have to fill up a tank to buy oil (gas)? The paper market allows you to buy what you need at the price you want without taking physical delivery. Imagine a farm that uses 1000 gallons of diesel each year. The farmer is concerned with the price going up so he buys on the futures market (speculates). He only has a 100 gallon diesel tank so he never intends to take delivery of all 1000 gallons nor does he want to incur the cost of a 1000 gallon tank (rather he will buy 10 times over the course of a season). The farmer does want price stability and the futures market is how you buy that (innoculation to price fluctuations). He buys 10 contracts for 100 gallons each within the time frame for which he will take delivery. If oil had risen in price, he pays more at the pump but that is offset by the rise in his futures contracts. If oil has fallen in price, he pays less at the pump but that is offset by the worth less-ness or worthlessness of the contracts.

If you think people are being greedy, then are you willing to put your money on the line? You can donate all proceeds to charity. Speculation is a buyer AND a seller. Which is the greedy one?

Also, if you limited this market to only those who have government-approved "justification" (which is exactly what those suggest a ban want, whether they know it or not), then you harm the liquidity of the market and increase the cost to those who have a rational to use the services.

Man how I wish the housing market had more liquidity! Liquidity is a really fucking important thing.

i had a farm , knew lots of farmers , most like myself have 2 storage tanks , each 500 gal , diesel and gas . honestly i don't think any small farmer (<500a) headged their fuel , most figered how many bushels of corn/soybeans/wheat we would get and did go to the local elevator and headge about 1/2 of our crop if the price was good enough.

also if the chicago price then was a certain price per bu , the grain had to be 15% moisture or we would get docked 3% for each percent above 15%/

so many times farmers dry down the grains/corn , also the elevator would never pay chicago futures price , farmer get about 90% of the chicago price.

i guess to say its all a shell game , no one knows what futures are going to do , thats why they sell about 1/2 their expected crop.

at least its not a rigged mkt like crude, that was the orig idea of futures trading , crude futures started around 1973.

thats why the big speculators don't pump the grain prices up as the farmers would stuff so much grain up their a$$ , its not a controlled supply and its very hard to rig the mkt , some people don't understand this , i feel sorry for them .

i guess all the farmers/truckers/middle and poor class are all commies to some people.

 

[ILUVRP]

i will post this link , i wish everyone would read it as a top man at exxon/mobil has it correct , although there are some people on this forum that will call him a commie , who knows he could be .

"Because of speculation, today's oil prices of about $100 a barrel have become disconnected from the costs of extraction, which average $11 a barrel worldwide. Pure speculators account for as much as 40 percent of that high price, according to testimony that Rex Tillerson, the chief executive of ExxonMobil, gave to Congress last year."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E4UxHFywY7cdCA9XA&sig2=iWsdAV8Ar-Xs1FFbNM0Ulg

please , please read this link.
this is a very good read.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

paul or zero , you are really as dumb as a bag of rocks , you have been standing in the kool-aid too long , its getting hot outside , put on a hat.

It's morons like YOU who like to drink communist kool-aid of GOVERNMENT-CONTROLLED-MARKETS that are the problem in this world

its your ass-hole SCOTUS that said my house could be taken from me and a shopping center could be built . so much for your property rights .

You living scum, just because someone steals from you, doesn't mean you should support thievery; besides, it's the anti-property-property, anti-market, pro-government-dictatorship scum like YOU who voted for that communist-dictator

its your ass-hole sc that said our elections don't count , put W in as potus and get 4500 gi's killed for nothing.

Again, it's because there are too many pro-government, pro-dictatorship idiots like you

i honestly think you are a limpball shill. some day you will learn what is going on , but by then you will have forgotten where you read it .

You're just a living scum, leeching others' freedoms because you THINK it will benefit you, & NO, I don't even have ANY hopes that you'll ever actually LEARN about economics or markets, because you're too dumb for that, that's the damn problem with the world, too many dumb & lazy idiots lying around & supporting violation of people's rights to life, liberty & property

i am very happy people like you were not in the military , it could be you tried to get in but was 4f , who knows ?

No, I never intended to be a pawn of the government or to kill others just to get the CRUM that government throws at you

do you know anyone that is not a commmmmmmmmmie , i doubt it , you are a very stupid person or a banker , i don't know which.

I reiterate, ANYONE who supports government violating people's rights to their life, liberty & property because of some (imagined) benefit they THINK they'll get, due to low IQ & ignorance of market-economics, are f'cking commies - LIKE YOU

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

Speculators are serving a critical pricing function - rapid price adjustment so as to properly regulate, ration and allocate scarce resources. The inflationary counterfeiters have a long list of scape goats to distract from what it is they are doing, the "evil speculator" is one of their favorite.

Ben Bernanke is where the fingers should be pointed; the congress spending queens are a close second.

+1

I don't think socialists/communists are interested in pointing fingers at the government or even at themselves for breeding such government! Oh no! You'll see them pointing fingers at the markets & how government needs to "correct" the "problems" within the market by violating people's life, liberty & property; if they had any brains, they would know that government, politicians & bureaucrats are NEVER the answer & may be they'd looked at how the markets work

Why should you have to fill up a tank to buy oil (gas)? The paper market allows you to buy what you need at the price you want without taking physical delivery. Imagine a farm that uses 1000 gallons of diesel each year. The farmer is concerned with the price going up so he buys on the futures market (speculates). He only has a 100 gallon diesel tank so he never intends to take delivery of all 1000 gallons nor does he want to incur the cost of a 1000 gallon tank (rather he will buy 10 times over the course of a season). The farmer does want price stability and the futures market is how you buy that (innoculation to price fluctuations). He buys 10 contracts for 100 gallons each within the time frame for which he will take delivery. If oil had risen in price, he pays more at the pump but that is offset by the rise in his futures contracts. If oil has fallen in price, he pays less at the pump but that is offset by the worth less-ness or worthlessness of the contracts.

If you think people are being greedy, then are you willing to put your money on the line? You can donate all proceeds to charity. Speculation is a buyer AND a seller. Which is the greedy one?

Also, if you limited this market to only those who have government-approved "justification" (which is exactly what those suggest a ban want, whether they know it or not), then you harm the liquidity of the market and increase the cost to those who have a rational to use the services.

Man how I wish the housing market had more liquidity! Liquidity is a really fucking important thing.

+1

This^^ EVERYTHING is speculating-even holding dollars or crossing a busy street.

+1

Oh! Don't say such things! Or you might get called a slimy speculator or an evil banker!

Again, commies are too dumb & too lazy so won't bother researching & learning things themselves; their most prominent soiurces of informantion are the "news" outlets & their "expert" views on things & "information" (propaganda) released by the government sources & political "leaders"

They are incapable of thinking for themselves; in fact, thinking in itself could be considered as sin by them!

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

i will post this link , i wish everyone would read it as a top man at exxon/mobil has it correct , although there are some people on this forum that will call him a commie , who knows he could be .

"Because of speculation, today's oil prices of about $100 a barrel have become disconnected from the costs of extraction, which average $11 a barrel worldwide. Pure speculators account for as much as 40 percent of that high price, according to testimony that Rex Tillerson, the chief executive of ExxonMobil, gave to Congress last year."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E4UxHFywY7cdCA9XA&sig2=iWsdAV8Ar-Xs1FFbNM0Ulg

please , please read this link.
this is a very good read.

But it's one thing to have a trading system in which oil industry players place strategic bets on where prices will be months into the future; it's another thing to have a system in which hedge funds and bankers pump billions of purely speculative dollars into commodity exchanges, chasing a limited number of barrels and driving up the price. The same concern explains why the United States government placed limits on pure speculators in grain exchanges after repeated manipulations of crop prices during the Great Depression.

Here's more stupidity from pro-government commies!

I just don't know these pro-government, anti-market commies focus ONLY speculators BUYING contracts & completely ignore the part where they SELL
Sure, when a big hedge-fund BUYS, it'll push prices up because there likely won't be many selling at that prices, ok, prices go up but when do they benefit? They benefit when OTHER PEOPLE, start buying AFTER THEY"VE BOUGHT, which would push prices higher & then the hedge-fund may SELL to lock in the profit BUT agian, when they start SELLING to square off their positions, they'll DRIVE DOWN prices so they're essentially making profits against those who bought after them - but somehow the pro-government commie-brigade NEVER seems to address it because they're too f'cking DUMB to understand such things & they're too f'cking LAZY to learn about the market-process

I mean what else can you expect from people who claim that same two entities buying & selling between themselves causes prices to rise They think if you & your pal keep buying & selling the same thing to each other back & forth over & over then that increases its price I mean how DUMB can these people be???

Furthermore, ok, so price went up for a while but what happened during that time? The sellers (ACTUAL SELLERS) have the opportunity to short contracts & a secure a high price for their product while the prices are high & there's a lot of incentive for them to do so, & they go back to producing, the production-cycle could be months or whatever & when they all produce more, that DRIVES DOWN the prices because of higher production that was initiated by higher prices

And speculators don't just go there & start buying, they're not idiots (& if they're then they'll get wiped out pretty quickly) so they'll ONLY start buying up IF they think there's going to be a future shortage, & the current high prices act as the signal to sellers to produce more & higher prices are their incentive; without such mechanism & futures market, we'd see sudden & wild swings in prices rather than GRADUAL ones

And I ask again, what stops these commie scum to go out there & hedge themselves against price-rise by buying contracts anyway? If they aren't doing it then it's their stupidity that's hurting them more than anything else! And if they're hedged then why whine & moan about it? But you see, commies don't like personal responsibility of people taking care of themselves & doing their own hedging instead they want the almighty government, politicians & bureaucrats to meddle in the markets, which only leads to regulationism, price-controllism, anti-property moves that only make things WORSE, leading to lack of liquidity & volumes, higher hedging-costs & continuous shortages but then commies to dumb anyway so they ask for EVEN MORE intervention by the government

 

[ILUVRP]

good grief, i better watch out when i go outside , i think there is a commie under every rock , in every car , they are everywhere , i think i will just stay in bed and cover up my head . this is really bad , you have me convinced . every one that disagree's with you is a commie or living scum.

i guess with all those commies working for exxon , does that mean the money we spend for gasoline is funding the commies? whow , this is worse than i thought.

you really have a problem , you are a very sick american ( ?? ) , i honestly feel sorry for you , i did not know you were a complete idiot until now , i just thought you were stupid , but i misjudged you .

please don't forget to take your pills.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

good grief, i better watch out when i go outside , i think there is a commie under every rock , in every car , they are everywhere , i think i will just stay in bed and cover up my head . this is really bad , you have me convinced . every one that disagree's with you is a commie or living scum.

Is it hard for you to read?
Anyone who supports government violating others' rights to life, liberty & property, often under a misconception that it will benefit them, IS a commie; that's the very nature of socialism/communism

And obviously, you've no understanding of economics nor any compunction in violating others' property-rights using government force because you THINK it will benefit you - commie

i guess with all those commies working for exxon , does that mean the money we spend for gasoline is funding the commies? whow , this is worse than i thought.

You seem incapable of reading & comprehending!

you really have a problem , you are a very sick american ( ?? ) ,

So you want to use government for some imaginary benefit that you THINK you'll get by violating property-rights - & I'm the "sick" one?

I wish there were more "sick" people in the world & the world would be a lot more freer & prosperous & respect people's rights but unfortunately, the world has too many idiot self-centered commies

i honestly feel sorry for you ,

I don't feel sorry for you at all! You were born stupid, nothing can be done about it!

i did not know you were a complete idiot until now ,

On the other hand, I'd recognized that you're an idiot, who's been buying into government & leftist propaganda of being anti-market, anti-property-rights & anti-freedom; & therefore talk about OPEC & speculators instead of studying what's actually going on & understanding the underlying the factors & how markets work

i just thought you were stupid , but i misjudged you .

But your stupidity & ignorance was very clear to me immediately when the first time I saw you talking about OPEC & speculators & the whole economically ignorant anti-market, pro-government rhetoric!

please don't forget to take your pills.

Oh, don't worry! I hope you're taking your intelligence-pills! May be, just may be, you'll become a little more intelligent, enough to understand the market & not to buy into government & socialist/communist anti-market, pro-government-intervention rhetoric

 

[ILUVRP]

i guess we have beaten this dead horse long enough , i will never convince you or change your mind , nor will you change mine ( i'm right ).

please , everyone that disagrees with you is not a commie , neither are the people at exxon that disagrees with you ( i don't think ).

so have a good day PON ll.

not to kick this horse again but do you think obama is reading this forum ?

President Barack Obama will call on Congress today to bolster federal supervision of oil markets, including increased penalties for market manipulation and greater power for regulators to increase the amount of money traders must put up to back their energy bets.

Obama will make a statement at 11:10 today, according to a White House news release. He will detail the $52 million proposal with Attorney General Eric Holder, according to an administration official.

 

[Paul Or Nothing II]

i guess we have beaten this dead horse long enough , i will never convince you or change your mind , nor will you change mine ( i'm right ).

please , everyone that disagrees with you is not a commie , neither are the people at exxon that disagrees with you ( i don't think ).

so have a good day PON ll.

Again, your inability to read & dishonesty is clear, where have I said anyone who disagrees with me is a commie?

I've said - Anyone who supports government violating others' rights to life, liberty & property, often under a misconception that it will benefit them, IS a commie; that's the very nature of socialism/communism

Now, it's not my fault that you like violating others' property-rights with government force due to your ignorance of how markets work but that does make you a commie

not to kick this horse again but do you think obama is reading this forum ?

President Barack Obama will call on Congress today to bolster federal supervision of oil markets, including increased penalties for market manipulation and greater power for regulators to increase the amount of money traders must put up to back their energy bets.

Obama will make a statement at 11:10 today, according to a White House news release. He will detail the $52 million proposal with Attorney General Eric Holder, according to an administration official.

Well, well, as I've said, the commie whines about something & the tzar responds!

Just shows you which side you're on, & again, re-emphasizes the fact that - commie minds, think alike

This is why world has never & probably will never have a free & just system based on protecting everyone's life, liberty & property - Too many god-damned anti-market, anti-freedom, pro-government-dictatorship commies

 

[The Free Hornet]

thats why the big speculators don't pump the grain prices up as the farmers would stuff so much grain up their a$$ , its not a controlled supply and its very hard to rig the mkt , some people don't understand this , i feel sorry for them .

i guess all the farmers/truckers/middle and poor class are all commies to some people.

Panties in a bunch? I thought you were the commie? But seriously, if you advocate elimination of speculation of any market, it is fair to call you a commie. Statist might be more suitable but commie works fine because you are advocating a police state intervention into free transactions. If you eliminated the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, only the force of government could prevent a new one from arising. Even then, you would then have to fight the black markets and workarounds that spring up to fill the void. You may not like the crude market or the players in it, but the futures market is not a cause for great concern.

Lots of government controlled markets could be criticized. E.g., Intrade and elections - is a more rigged market in existence??? This doesn't mean Intrade should not be left alone.