[Video] Ben Swann Reality Check on North Dakota delegate shenanigans

[Darguth]

As much as the North Dakota situation royally sucks, it doesn't really seem to be "railroading" at least the way I understand it.

They didn't prevent you from voting for the delegates you preferred. They didn't play shenanigans with the vote count. They didn't shut down the convention when things dididn't go their way.

They simply made it easier to vote for the people they wanted. But, if we were organized and committed and had the numbers that should have been an obstacle we could have overcome.

 

[JasonM]

This is why GETTING ON THE COMMITTEES IS SO IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!! That is, the state party committees that ultimately decide on the slate that go to Tampa to select the Republican Nominee for president (among other things).

People just plain don't understand the importance of these obscure things when it comes to their civic duty. Then they wonder how they get screwed after every single election. =/

 

[Tenbobnote]

double post

 

[Tenbobnote]

As much as the North Dakota situation royally sucks, it doesn't really seem to be "railroading" at least the way I understand it.

They didn't prevent you from voting for the delegates you preferred. They didn't play shenanigans with the vote count. They didn't shut down the convention when things dididn't go their way.

They simply made it easier to vote for the people they wanted. But, if we were organized and committed and had the numbers that should have been an obstacle we could have overcome.

the railroading occurred when they did not count the votes after a "Division" had been called(multiple times); the railroading occurred when they turned off the mic from a young lady trying to make a motion then recognized another guy on a mic to adjourned the meeting and did not recognize the overwhelming Nays that occurred when motioning to adjourn the meeting ,ETC.

 

[devil21]

(eta: capital R Rules means Robert's Rules, lower case r rules means convention rules/bylaws)

The good news is that the GOP just tipped their hand for the rest of the state conventions. They'll disseminate this little plan to all the state GOP offices. It's our job to figure out how to counter it. The state conventions are run by Robert's Rules like the rest of the conventions. Clog it up! Delay! Frustrate! Use the Rules to challenge the party. Remember, the rules can be amended to say pretty much whatever you want! "I move to amend rule/bylaw #whatever" and state the changes or "I move to amend the rules/bylaws by adding an additional Rule, which will be #whatever".

See here: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/roberts-rules-for-amending-bylaws.html


The thing I'd like to see more about is the "check box" mentioned and very quickly shown on that ballot. Was the checkbox simply a way for those in attendence to just vote for the entire party slate with a single check? If so, THAT needs to be challenged if it wasn't expressly in the convention rules. Point of order! The ballot does not comply with the rules! Then explain how it undermines the delegate selection process. If enough people are irked by the party's attempt to shut out non-annointed delegates then the ballot can be thrown out. More on this in the next section.

Also, it appeared the ballot actually had the names of the annointed delegates already on it. That should be Rules challenged as well (I rise to a question of privilege) and a motion to amend the rules/bylaws raised for a new ballot that expressly omits the names of delegates and leaves the vote entirely up to the convention. How do we counter these shenanigans? We need to have our own alternative ballots READY TO GO for the convention. That means Paulites need to show up with preprinted ballots that do NOT have the party annointed delegates names on it. Just blank spaces for people to write in their votes. We have to remove these dirty tricks (though they may be procedurally fair) from the process at the start of the conventions and not let them take hold.

I just realized that this probably should have it's very own thread so Ill start a new thread with more detail and hopefully more input. The good news here is that the party just tipped their hand and we can develop a strategy to disseminate to our own state orgs.

 

[JasonM]

The good news is that the GOP just tipped their hand for the rest of the state conventions. They'll disseminate this little plan to all the state GOP offices. It's our job to figure out how to counter it. The state conventions are run by Robert's Rules like the rest of the conventions. Clog it up! Delay! Frustrate! Use the rules to challenge the party. Remember, the rules can be amended to say pretty much whatever you want! "I move to amend Rule/Bylaw #whatever" and state the changes or "I move to amend the Rules/Bylaws by adding an additional Rule, which will be #whatever".

See here: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/roberts-rules-for-amending-bylaws.html


The thing I'd like to see more about is the "check box" mentioned and very quickly shown on that ballot. Was the checkbox simply a way for those in attendence to just vote for the entire party slate with a single check? If so, THAT needs to be challenged if it wasn't expressly in the convention rules. Point of order! The ballot does not comply with the rules! Then explain how it undermines the delegate selection process. If enough people are irked by the party's attempt to shut out non-annointed delegates then the ballot can be thrown out. More on this in the next section.

Also, it appeared the ballot actually had the names of the annointed delegates already on it. That should be challenged as well (I rise to a question of privilege) and a motion to amend the rules/bylaws raised for a new ballot that expressly omits the names of delegates and leaves the vote entirely up to the convention. How do we counter these shenanigans? We need to have our own alternate ballots READY TO GO for the convention. That means Paulites need to show up with preprinted ballots that do NOT have the party annointed delegates names on it. Just blank spaces for people to write in their votes. We have to remove these dirty tricks (though they may be procedurally fair) from the process at the start of the conventions and not let them take hold.

I just realized that this probably should have it's very own thread so Ill start a new thread with more detail and hopefully more input. The good news here is that the party just tipped their hand and we can develop a strategy to disseminate to our own state orgs.

Good stuff!! Fight the good fight!! We cannot allow a repeat of what happened in ND, and if possible try to make it happen for Ron Paul instead!!

 

[devil21]

Good stuff!! Fight the good fight!! We cannot allow a repeat of what happened in ND, and if possible try to make it happen for Ron Paul instead!!

Thanks. I started a new thread on it here:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ns-at-state-conventions-important-open-thread

 

[gjdavis60]

exactly, I'm convinced that the GOP wants to lose this election. Everything they have done to this point has been counter productive to winning the election for the GOP.

Well, the GOP would certainly rather lose the election than have Paul become their nominee, that could not be more clear. Those in power would rather maintain control; even if they are in the minority, and they know the RP movement would purge the current leadership should it gain a foothold in the party.

 

[DonovanJames]

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

 

[Titus]

I do think that there is some sort of violation of the equal protection clause regarding the voting rights act, although I don't practice that field of law or in North Dakota.

First, the ballot preselected delegates and left others off. Normally, this is not a problem. However, in normal situations, the candidates know the requirements to be on the ballot and challenge them ahead of time if they are unconstitutional. Yet, the candidates had no such opportunity.

Two, there seemed to be a poll tax to be a candidate. People who donated money were heavily favored on this ballot. Candidate access should not depend on the size of one's checkbook but the support for his or her ideals.

Three, the amendment to try to display all the candidates. People could not know who supported whom based on the screen. On Ben Swann's reality check, it was clear no one could logically see that far without glasses.

Four, because voting rights are at issue what is the "compelling government interest" that suggests the ballots need to be done this way and was it "narrowly tailored" to achieve such a result? For non-lawyers, narrowly tailored usually means that the governmental action did not cause excessive harm or under protect the group it was supposed to be protecting. Is there another way to achieve the result that would be better? That's not a perfect definition but it's close.

Five, if the court decides voting rights are not implicated under the private group rationale, then the case would likely be decided under something called rational basis review. This basically says is there a rational basis for treating this group better than the other group. The state party officials would probably say something like "selecting favored candidates helps ensure election integrity". Even then, the state would have great difficulties because election integrity cannot mean preselecting the results for voters.

Also, the denial of this knowledge of how to get on the ballot would not have a rational basis. Denying people knowledge of how to get on the ballot only serves to disenfranchise candidates.

This sounds like the type of thing that someone should contact their ACLU to file an injunction regarding the case. If such a case managed to attract media attention, it would accomplish a huge goal of showing lack of inevitability. After all, if Mitt is inevitable, why does he need to do this? Such a case likely would have some merit. Due to the implications, the case would likely move along quickly. See Bush v Gore.

 

[tsai3904]

This is why GETTING ON THE COMMITTEES IS SO IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!! That is, the state party committees that ultimately decide on the slate that go to Tampa to select the Republican Nominee for president (among other things).

People just plain don't understand the importance of these obscure things when it comes to their civic duty. Then they wonder how they get screwed after every single election. =/

Exactly. In some states, to be on committees, you have to be members of your local and state GOP. If we don't get involved in our local GOP, this will continue to happen.

For those that want to get involved, read this:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?368828-Become-a-Voting-Member-of-Your-County-GOP

Its very easy to become a member of your local GOP and its a volunteer position (meaning you can resign at ANY time).