USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

I always had Lance figured to be a douche. I think that competitive cycling is for douches. These people have chosen dicks to overlord them with their professional organizations....

therefore, I'm going to sit back, relax, and watch what happens when a group of self-absorbed weenies go after each other. We will know that the show has reached its maximum irrelevance level when Obama steps in with a statement for peace and they appoint James Baker, Louie Freeh, or one of Olympic hero, Willard Romney's sons to straighten out the mess.
 
That's sad.

I don't see it as sad. The evidence suggests that he was doping. Most of it was circumstantial, but it was still very strong evidence. There were samples that tested positive, but the samples weren't stored in the proper manner, so the evidence was dismissed.

This is HUGE in the world of sports. Lance is like a god among men in ALL kinds of athletics because he was just so far and beyond other people. Winning the Tour de France 7 times in a row when the previous record was 5 times in a row is just mind-bogglingly stupendous. To see him stripped of his titles to many is like seeing an angel fall from heaven.

Of course, one has to consider the fact that it is very likely that most of the top cyclists were dopers. If you believe what Landis had to say about the US team, then you would think this was completely justified based on what you heard. Landis admitted to doping and talked about times when they did it and Lance was there, doing it, too. He also mentioned parties with strippers and cocaine and a bunch of unethical stuff, including favoritism toward Lance. He got all the great bikes, the best assistance, the most money and support whereas other guys on the team had to follow. They were trained to help Lance win, according to Landis, not to actually vy for the title.

I'm just gobsmacked by this news. I would never have guessed someone of such status would suffer such a fall. When you get to the level of what Lance is like, it becomes so that nobody can question you. They can talk, but nothing ever gets done because nobody wants to make the controversial decision. What's more, Lance had money. He was protected by special interests and lots of money. He just went from god of athletics to the biggest disgrace in the history of the sport just because he got found out. There are certainly others who doped, but none of them attained the level of success that Lance did.
 
If they didn't have enough evidence to prove the charges, they should've dropped it. Instead, they just hound the guy until they wear him down and he just says, F*** it.

I don't know whether he was or wasn't, and obviously they don't either, so continually working him over amounts to nothing more than harrassment.

The decision to strip him of his titles and earnings may have been delayed, but Lance has been widely suspected for a long time by many people. So much so, in fact, that "lanced" has become a popular term for someone who is using performance-enhancing drugs or testosterone-boosters. The evidence has been quite strong for a long time.
 
Ah, I see now....Don't admit to or contest the charges against you = guilty.:confused:





I really need to win Powerball this weekend, and leave this shit hole forever.....:mad:

Yep, a no contest plea is a guilty plea. That's the way the legal system has always worked.
 
You cant strip someone of previous wins. That doesn't make any sense.

It happens commonly in sports. It's becoming clear to me that many people don't really understand what just happened. Being stripped of a title is being stripped of recognition for a win. It happened in the last Olympics in 2008 when Rashid Ramzi won the gold medal in the 1500m run and then tested positive for steroids of some kind. If you do something extraordinary and people find out you cheated, do you think you still deserve to be recognized for it? It's like being found guilty of cheating in a court of law. If you are proven guilty, then you don't deserve the recognition. You are erased from the record books and, in this case, Lance's monetary gains from cycling were taken away.
 
Thing is, you have to have proof and they have NONE.

This action is so wrong.

That's simply not true. There is a lot of evidence including eyewitness testimony and loads of circumstantial things. I bet you almost every professional cycler knows Lance doped.

There WAS physical evidence, too, but that was dismissed because the procedures for storing and testing the samples weren't followed exactly right. Still, there has been much discussion on why these findings are very significant.
 
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I always had Lance figured to be a douche. I think that competitive cycling is for douches. These people have chosen dicks to overlord them with their professional organizations....

therefore, I'm going to sit back, relax, and watch what happens when a group of self-absorbed weenies go after each other. We will know that the show has reached its maximum irrelevance level when Obama steps in with a statement for peace and they appoint James Baker, Louie Freeh, or one of Olympic hero, Willard Romney's sons to straighten out the mess.

That much is true. Cycling has a ridiculous amount of oversight and regulations. I personally think they should just let people use steroids if they want, but that introduces a very tough dilemma for people who are concerned for their health and the side-effects of steroids. Do they care enough about winning to sacrifice their health? They would pretty much have to do it in order to win, so it's really a tough dilemma.
 
I always had Lance figured to be a douche. I think that competitive cycling is for douches. These people have chosen dicks to overlord them with their professional organizations....

therefore, I'm going to sit back, relax, and watch what happens when a group of self-absorbed weenies go after each other. We will know that the show has reached its maximum irrelevance level when Obama steps in with a statement for peace and they appoint James Baker, Louie Freeh, or one of Olympic hero, Willard Romney's sons to straighten out the mess.

While I like watching the Tour and sprint cycling in the Olympics, I have to agree with the disdain for pro cycling for this reason. Pro cycling's decision to not allow recumbents has probably set cycling back technology wise 100 years. There aren't more bents on the road because they are more expensive. They're more expensive because they aren't mass produced because of low demand. The low demand is because people don't see bents on TV because they aren't allowed to compete.
 
I think its disgusting. The guy passed hundreds of tests and the only evidence I've heard of is claims from people.

This. Not that I follow it anymore after he retired, but to me Armstrong will always be the champ for those 7 years regardless of what they say. He never failed a test. They're just pissed off because he won 7 straight while clean against a field of cheaters.
 
See: 500 clean tests aren't good enough?

Either he had access to some crazy advanced shit that nobody else knew about or could get, even as a broke unknown during his first win, or he was clean.

I'm going with he was clean. You don't beat several hundred tests over nearly a decade if you're dirty.
 
Cheaters are always a step ahead of the tests that attempt to catch them. Kind of like viruses and the methods meant to stop them.

I don't know how he cheated, but based upon what I have heard and read, I believe he did. Landis also won before he failed a test. At one point I read that Landis stated they would dope on the course in the van.

If you have 10 of your former teammates who are going to testify against you, either they all hate you and are willing the lie in court, or you are guilty and they are willing to tell the truth on what they knew you did and they did, too.

"USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused to say who they are or specifically what they would say."
 
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How Landis claims he did it

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500290_162-6501643.html

Disgraced U.S. cyclist Floyd Landis revealed new cheating allegations in a series of messages to sponsors and officials, alleging that former teammate Lance Armstrong not only joined him in doping but taught others how to beat the system and paid an official to keep a failed test quiet.

With international cycling season in full swing, Landis admitted for the first time what had long been suspected - that he was guilty of doping for several years before being stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title.

CBSSports.com: Landis Comes Clean, Accuses Armstrong
Proving Floyd Landis' Doping Accusations

His fresh accusations, contained in e-mails sent last month, prompted Armstrong to hold an impromptu press conference Thursday before he began the fifth stage of the Tour of California in Visalia.

"If you said, 'Give me one word to sum this all up,' credibility," the seven-time Tour de France winner said. "Floyd lost his credibility a long time ago."

"We have nothing to hide. We have nothing to run from," said Armstrong, who later quit the race to go to a hospital for X-rays after crashing just outside of Visalia, Calif.

Though Landis lost his title, he denied cheating until now, and his recent e-mails detail his blood doping.

"I want to clear my conscience," Landis told ESPN.com. "I don't want to be part of the problem any more."

He claims that Armstrong and longtime coach Johan Bruyneel paid an International Cycling Union official to cover-up a test in 2002 after Armstrong purportedly tested positive for the blood-boosting drug EPO. The UCI, however, denied changing or concealing a positive test result.

In an e-mail Landis sent to USA Cycling chief Steve Johnson, he said Armstrong's positive EPO test was in 2002, around the time he won the Tour de Suisse. Armstrong won the Tour de Suisse in 2001 and did not compete in 2002.

"We're a little confused, maybe just as confused as you guys," Armstrong said, with Bruyneel by his side. "The timeline is off, year by year."

The Wall Street Journal first reported the details of the e-mails.

Landis also implicated other cyclists, including longtime Armstrong confidant George Hincapie and Olympic medalist Levi Leipheimer, and acknowledged using human growth hormone starting in 2003. The Wall Street Journal reported another e-mail from Landis also linked another top American racer, Dave Zabriskie, to doping.

"Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing," Landis wrote in the e-mail to Johnson.

Landis said he was asked at one point to stay in an apartment where Armstrong was living and check the temperature in a refrigerator where blood was being stored for future transfusions. "Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the refrigerator," Landis wrote.
Hincapie said he was "really disappointed" by the allegations. Jim Ochowicz, a former top USA Cycling official - who was also implicated by Landis - defended himself and Hincapie.

"These allegations are not true, absolutely unfounded and unproven," said Ochowicz, now the president of BMC Racing, Hincapie's current team. "This is disappointing to anyone who works in the sport or is a fan of the sport."

Johnson said USA Cycling would not comment about Landis' series of e-mails, citing its policy on not discussing "doping allegations, investigations or any aspect of an adjudication process."

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency also declined comment for similar reasons, and Landis did not respond to messages left by The AP.

More accusations from Landis could be coming, however. In his e-mail to Johnson, Landis indicated he has several diaries detailing other experiences.

"I've always known Floyd as an angry person ... somebody who's basically angry with the world," Bruyneel said. "To me it sounds like he just wants to drag down people who are still there and enjoying this."

Until about 2005, Armstrong worked extensively with Michele Ferrari, an Italian doctor who was linked to numerous doping issues, but was cleared by an appeals court in 2006. Landis claimed Ferrari extracted "half a liter of blood" from him in 2002, so he could have it transfused during the Tour de France.


"Mr. Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test," Landis wrote.

Landis also alleges that after one stage of 2004 Tour de France, the team got off their bikes and boarded a bus where each of them received blood transfusions on the side of the road, reports CBS News correspondent Ben Tracy.
Andy Rihs, the owner of the Phonak team for which Landis rode when he won the Tour, issued a statement saying Landis' claims were "lies" and a "last, tragic attempt" to get publicity. In the April 30 e-mail, Landis alleges that Rihs was aware of his doping and helped fund it.

Like Armstrong, UCI president Pat McQuaid questioned Landis' credibility.

"He already made those accusations in the past," McQuaid said. "Armstrong has been accused many times in the past but nothing has been proved against him. And in this case, I have to question the guy's credibility. There is no proof of what he says. We are speaking about a guy who has been condemned for doping before a court."

Armstrong said Landis started threatening him and other top riders such as Leipheimer and Zabriskie to make allegations like these long ago.

"I'd remind everybody that this is a man that's been under oath several times and had a very different version," Armstrong said. "This is a man that wrote a book for profit that had a completely different version. This is somebody that took, some would say, close to $1 million from innocent people for his defense under a different premise. Now when it's all run out the story changes."

A French judge issued an international arrest warrant for Landis in February in connection with a case of data hacking at a doping laboratory.

French judge Thomas Cassuto wanted to question Landis about computer hacking dating back to September 2006 at the Chatenay-Malabry lab.

It was that lab which months earlier had uncovered abnormally elevated testosterone levels in Landis' samples collected in the run-up to his 2006 Tour victory.
 
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If you have 10 of your former teammates who are going to testify against you, either they all hate you and are willing the lie in court, or you are guilty and they are willing to tell the truth on what they knew you did and they did, too.

There is another couple "or"'s you missed there.
 
George Hincapie to me is the straw that broke the camel's back. This is a well respected man and teammate who was set to testify against Lance.
 
There is another couple "or"'s you missed there.

perhaps

We all have our opinions. The whole sport is riddled with people cheating, just like baseball. My feeling is he was no different and just tired of fighting the allegations.
 
Fuckin' America Dental Association. They restrict competition in the dental industry by forming a cartel, and now they have to stick their spatulas into the cycling industry as well??? Evil, evil dentists...
EvilDentist.jpg
 
Cheaters are always a step ahead of the tests that attempt to catch them. Kind of like viruses and the methods meant to stop them.

I don't know how he cheated, but based upon what I have heard and read, I believe he did. Landis also won before he failed a test. At one point I read that Landis stated they would dope on the course in the van.

If you have 10 of your former teammates who are going to testify against you, either they all hate you and are willing the lie in court, or you are guilty and they are willing to tell the truth on what they knew you did and they did, too.

"USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused to say who they are or specifically what they would say."

According to someone in this thread his teammates were threatened with having their own accomplishments taken away if they didn't turn on him. If that is true then nothing any of them say can be trusted.

Landis as an example isn't valid. He tested positive. Armstrong never once tested positive.
 
He never failed a single test (and was the most tested rider in the sport- both in and outside competition- they could call anytime day or night and ask for a piss test or blood test. He has been investigated numerous times over years (which is why he is tired of fighting them- the most recent was a congressional investigation which was closed earlier this year) and passed every one of those. The accusers we know of all had personal gripes against Armstrong and did fail tests and were offered immunity if they gave up Armstrong.

And why only him and his team? Beause they were successful. His performances did not come out of nowhere- he was a successful triathlete before turning his focus to cycling. He succeeded in the Tour de France often because that was the only major race he rode all year- letting him train specifically for it- while others rode many more races during the year. He also trained harder than almost everybody and he and his team revolutionized both tactics and equipment as well as training techniques (first for example to use wind tunnels to work on riding posture).

If he was doping, he was very good at it. And he was definately very good at riding his bicycle. The ban will mean he cannot persue his next dream of doing the Ironman or other sanctioned triathlons. He recently won a marathon at altitude in Colorado and he has also won the Leadville 100 which is a 100 mile mountain bicycle race which starts at 12,000 feet in elevation and goes up to 14,000. Off roads.
 
he knows he's still a profitable brand name with cult followers. Even though he repeats the same lie that "he's never failed a test". Armstrong has failed a few tests but for political reasons were not legally announced as failed tests.


there will always be people to support him this guy and he'll still be able to make a lot of money
 
He never failed a single test (and was the most tested rider in the sport- both in and outside competition- they could call anytime day or night and ask for a piss test or blood test. He has been investigated numerous times over years (which is why he is tired of fighting them- the most recent was a congressional investigation which was closed earlier this year) and passed every one of those. The accusers we know of all had personal gripes against Armstrong and did fail tests and were offered immunity if they gave up Armstrong.

And why only him and his team? Beause they were successful. His performances did not come out of nowhere- he was a successful triathlete before turning his focus to cycling. He succeeded in the Tour de France often because that was the only major race he rode all year- letting him train specifically for it- while others rode many more races during the year. He also trained harder than almost everybody and he and his team revolutionized both tactics and equipment as well as training techniques (first for example to use wind tunnels to work on riding posture).

If he was doping, he was very good at it. And he was definately very good at riding his bicycle. The ban will mean he cannot persue his next dream of doing the Ironman or other sanctioned triathlons. He recently won a marathon at altitude in Colorado and he has also won the Leadville 100 which is a 100 mile mountain bicycle race which starts at 12,000 feet in elevation and goes up to 14,000. Off roads.

He actually did fail a test....
 
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