US federal government takes a 10% stake in Intel

[nikcers]

There's a better way to do it, it's called tariffs (when properly executed) or just straight up trade bans (a lot harder to fuck up than tariffs).

If you want communism, subsidizing stuff is how you get communism

Domestic chip production is needed for national defense.

Tariffs and trade bans alone wont work since we don't have the domestic manufacturing capability to produce enough of them.

Its just not an industry you can build out over night.

It will take massive investments to get the industrial capacity to make the chips we need for national defense.

Its no different than any other time our government invests in our national defense industries.

 

[TheTexan]

[SPLIT FROM: Taking things from white people]

@Anti Federalist, here's the real irony. Your daily hate blog is auspiously because you want prevent a Marxist takeover of America. And yet the orange man you voted for has now shown himself to be more Marxist than Obama or any other "Democrat." I put "Democrat" in quotes because Trump was a Democrat before he wasn't.

more Marxist is a stretch. Democrats are pretty fuckin' Marxist

 

[jmdrake]

more Marxist is a stretch. Democrats are pretty fuckin' Marxist

1) Trump is a Democrat in Republican clothing.

2) Obama didn't go this far.

U.S. takes 10% stake in Intel as Trump flexes more power over big business

The semiconductor maker has struggled to keep up in the artificial intelligence boom with rivals such as Nvidia and AMD.

www.nbcnews.com

Obama took a equity share in GM to keep them from going under and ultimately those shares were sold at a loss. Trump converted grants to Intel, which were allocated under the previous administration and partly paid, and used the threat of cutting off the rest of the funding to strong arm Intel into converting the grants into 10% of Intel stock. That means this is a permanent move. Here's the concerning part.

The United States will not seek direct representation on Intel's board and pledged to vote with the current Board of Directors on matters requiring shareholder approval, "with limited exceptions," according to a joint release from the Trump administration and Intel. The move also comes as the United States vies with China in the race to dominate the artificial intelligence industry.

That "pledge" not to interfere is non-binding. And this also will incentivize the U.S. government to "pick winners and loser" with respect to Intel versus other chip manufacturers.

We're slowly creeping towards the end of Animal Farm.

 

[TheTexan]

1) Trump is a Democrat in Republican clothing.

2) Obama didn't go this far.

U.S. takes 10% stake in Intel as Trump flexes more power over big business

The semiconductor maker has struggled to keep up in the artificial intelligence boom with rivals such as Nvidia and AMD.

www.nbcnews.com

Obama took a equity share in GM to keep them from going under and ultimately those shares were sold at a loss. Trump converted grants to Intel, which were allocated under the previous administration and partly paid, and used the threat of cutting off the rest of the funding to strong arm Intel into converting the grants into 10% of Intel stock. That means this is a permanent move. Here's the concerning part.

The United States will not seek direct representation on Intel's board and pledged to vote with the current Board of Directors on matters requiring shareholder approval, "with limited exceptions," according to a joint release from the Trump administration and Intel. The move also comes as the United States vies with China in the race to dominate the artificial intelligence industry.

That "pledge" not to interfere is non-binding. And this also will incentivize the U.S. government to "pick winners and loser" with respect to Intel versus other chip manufacturers.

We're slowly creeping towards the end of Animal Farm.

It may be Marxism but it's Marxism I like. Is it how I would have done it? Nope. Am I glad that he's taking a heavy hand in restoring our manufacturing capabilities? Yep.

Will it have negative long term consequences? Yup.

Do I really care? Nope!

 

[acptulsa]

Every Cliché-O-Matic will undoubtedly always be programmed to default to this: When losing the argument, claim...

national defense

 

[TheTexan]

Every Cliché-O-Matic will undoubtedly always be programmed to default to this: When losing the argument, claim...

It's a pretty valid argument

 

[acptulsa]

It's a pretty valid argument

No, it isn't.

The Pentagon has a gazillion dollars to spend. If they can't get the laser-etched sand they need, it's not because America is incapable of producing it reliably, it's because their procurement process is FUBAR. Making the whole thing even more incestuous will not help.

 

[TheTexan]

No, it isn't.

The Pentagon has a gazillion dollars to spend. If they can't get the laser-etched sand they need, it's not because America is incapable of producing it reliably, it's because their procurement process is FUBAR. Making the whole thing even more incestuous will not help.

When world war III breaks out you could have 800 gazillion jabillion dollars and it wouldn't help you at all in getting micro chips

 

[acptulsa]

When world war III breaks out you could have 800 gazillion jabillion dollars and it wouldn't help you at all in getting micro chips

The hell it wouldn't. Money didn't stop talking during either of the previous world wars.

During WWI people said money couldn't help you get back the railroad cars that were waiting at Atlantic ports to be unloaded, but money bought more cars, warehouses in port cities, and more ships. During WWII people said money couldn't help you get rubber if supply lines to South American rubber tree plantations were affected, but money bought catalytic crackers and synthetic rubber.

Laser etched sand is easy compared to that. Sand is something we do have. Just sell some more Victory Bonds and somebody will step up to the plate.

It's conservatives like you who wonder why Trump can't MAGA. Y'all don't have any more brains than Democrats. Nothing can make you understand that it's wiser to have faith in We, the People than in the damned government. We could MAGA, if he'd get his fat orange ass out of our way.

 

[TheTexan]

The hell it wouldn't. Money didn't stop talking during either of the previous world wars.

During WWI people said money couldn't help you get back the railroad cars that were waiting at Atlantic ports to be unloaded, but money bought more cars, warehouses in port cities, and more ships. During WWII people said money couldn't help you get rubber if supply lines to South American rubber tree plantations were affected, but money bought catalytic crackers and synthetic rubber.

Laser etched sand is easy compared to that. Sand is something we do have. Just sell some more Victory Bonds and somebody will step up to the plate.

Sure but if you wait until WW III breaks out, it will take at least a year to get it up and running. (and it'll probably all be crap due to the haste)

Might as well just do it now.

 

[acptulsa]

But of course no white Republicans resemble that remark.

Except this one.

It may be Marxism but it's Marxism I like. Is it how I would have done it? Nope. Am I glad that he's taking a heavy hand in restoring our manufacturing capabilities? Yep.

Will it have negative long term consequences? Yup.

Do I really care? Nope!

No wonder the GOP is every bit as bad as the DNC.

 

[Theocrat]

We are onshoring chip production so that a tyrant thousands of miles away can't shut down our country's national defense production and our domestic manufacturing.

Every other government that can do it is eating the cost of creating a domestic supply chain of microchips so they can't have it taken away by another government.

People have short memories so they dont remember trade blockades but we defeated Japan mostly through trade blockades. Millions of Japanese died mostly because they couldnt get access to food.

There is no Constitutional authority for the U.S. government to be acquiring stocks in a private company, and not even Biden's "CHIPS Act" authorizes such a thing. That just sets up a precedent for a future Leftist administration to follow suit and do the same thing towards a company of its choice.

It's Socialism, and it's the very thing that MAGA supporters were complaining would happen if Kamala was elected. So stop trying to justify it.

 

[acptulsa]

Sure but if you wait until WW III breaks out, it will take at least a year to get it up and running. (and it'll probably all be crap due to the haste)

Might as well just do it now.

You act like the things I was talking about were done by the government. If you're such a commie you can't offer the money and have faith in the private sector, you'll lose your hypothetical war, and you'll deserve to.

In the 1930s the government saw France, Germany and England developing liquid-cooled V-12 aircraft engines. It looked around at U.S. aero power and saw only radials (and air cooled, horizontally opposed twins, which are the same thing). And it decided America needed a liquid cooled "inline" too.

Somebody at GM got wind of it, and passed out enough bribes to get the contract. The government and Government Motors worked together, and produced the Allison. It was unreliable, didn't perform any better at high altitude than radials, and wasn't particularly powerful. Continual improvement managed to make it competitive with Rolls' and Mercedes' 1941 efforts by 1945. But the only world class performance fighter that used it was the Lockheed Lightning, the P-38, and that brilliant design went way, way, way out of its way to design around the Allison's deficiencies (not powerful enough and unreliable, so we had better use two of them...).

Somebody in government decided they "might as well just do it now". It took way more than a year. And still it was hastily conceived and crappy. Because government. When you're spending as much time and money jumping through government hoops as getting the job done, even a hasty, halfassed effort takes quite some time.

Meanwhile, war came to us, and the little Packard Motor Company looked at GM's private-public partnership's pitiful failure. Not having the time or the money to start from scratch, they entered a license-build agreement with Rolls. They redesigned the Merlin to be quicker and easier to manufacture, and more powerful too. Their version wasn't interchangeable with the original. It was better. And it transformed the P-51 Mustang from a dog only suitable for ground-attack missions to a machine widely acclaimed as the best all-around fighter of the war.

It didn't take Packard anywhere near as long to get that in production as it took GM to jump through government hoops. And they did it without government subsidies. They put the product on the table and didn't start taking money until they were making deliveries.

That's what history says. History calls you a liar. Their incestuous relationship with Intel isn't a strategic necessity. It's a power grab, pure and simple. It's one of those travesties that happens when Republicans make the recurring mistake of deciding conservative principles don't always serve our interests.

 

[nikcers]

The hell it wouldn't. Money didn't stop talking during either of the previous world wars.

During WWI people said money couldn't help you get back the railroad cars that were waiting at Atlantic ports to be unloaded, but money bought more cars, warehouses in port cities, and more ships. During WWII people said money couldn't help you get rubber if supply lines to South American rubber tree plantations were affected, but money bought catalytic crackers and synthetic rubber.

Laser etched sand is easy compared to that. Sand is something we do have. Just sell some more Victory Bonds and somebody will step up to the plate.

It's conservatives like you who wonder why Trump can't MAGA. Y'all don't have any more brains than Democrats. Nothing can make you understand that it's wiser to have faith in We, the People than in the damned government. We could MAGA, if he'd get his fat orange ass out of our way.

You have to get the infrastructure running before a war breaks out.

The white army learned that in Russia the hard way. If they had the railroad infrastructure built out the Bolsheviks wouldn't have won the war and then looted the country's wealth.

We were in fact lucky in World War 2 we had a lot of manufacturing infrastructure. We were producing it for the allies before we entered the war.

We don't have any real chip manufacturing capability anymore. The private industry offshored all of their chip production.

Dirt may be plentiful but silicon is a high value resource.

Private industry doesnt think in terms of national security. They arent supposed to. Their job is to make profit and live their best lives. They pay for the government to do national security.

 

[TheTexan]

You act like the things I was talking about were done by the government. If you're such a commie you can't offer the money and have faith in the private sector, you'll lose your hypothetical war, and you'll deserve to.

In the 1930s the government saw France, Germany and England developing liquid-cooled V-12 aircraft engines. It looked around at U.S. aero power and saw only radials (and air cooled, horizontally opposed twins, which are the same thing). And it decided America needed a liquid cooled "inline" too.

Somebody at GM got wind of it, and passed out enough bribes to get the contract. The government and Government Motors worked together, and produced the Allison. It was unreliable, didn't perform any better at high altitude than radials, and wasn't particularly powerful. Continual improvement managed to make it competitive with Rolls' and Mercedes' 1941 efforts by 1945. But the only world class performance fighter that used it was the Lockheed Lightning, the P-38, and that brilliant design went way, way, way out of its way to design around the Allison's deficiencies (not powerful enough and unreliable, so we had better use two of them...).

Somebody in government decided they "might as well just do it now". It took way more than a year. And still it was hastily conceived and crappy. Because government. When you're spending as much time and money jumping through government hoops as getting the job done, even a hasty, halfassed effort takes quite some time.

Meanwhile, war came to us, and the little Packard Motor Company looked at GM's private-public partnership's pitiful failure. Not having the time or the money to start from scratch, they entered a license-build agreement with Rolls. They redesigned the Merlin to be quicker and easier to manufacture, and more powerful too. Their version wasn't interchangeable with the original. It was better. And it transformed the P-51 Mustang from a dog only suitable for ground-attack missions to a machine widely acclaimed as the best all-around fighter of the war.

It didn't take Packard anywhere near as long to get that in production as it took GM to jump through government hoops. And they did it without government subsidies. They put the product on the table and didn't start taking money until they were making deliveries.

That's what history says. History calls you a liar. Their incestuous relationship with Intel isn't a strategic necessity. It's a power grab, pure and simple. It's one of those travesties that happens when Republicans make the recurring mistake of deciding conservative principles don't always serve our interests.

Let's see here, your best example you can give me, is an engine that went into service a year*** after the US entered the war?

You're basically making my argument for me.

EDIT: ***correction... TWO years after the US entered the war.

 

[acptulsa]

The white army learned that in Russia the hard way. If they had the railroad infrastructure built out the Bolsheviks wouldn't have won the war and then looted the country's wealth.

Botshit. Imperial Russian railroads were highly developed. If they had a weakness it was a dependence on American locomotives, and that wasn't a problem until the Bolsheviks had taken over and got cut off from that supply line.

We don't have any real chip manufacturing capability anymore. The private industry offshored all of their chip production.

Dirt may be plentiful but silicon is a high value resource.

Private industry doesnt think in terms of national security. They arent supposed to. Their job is to make profit and live their best lives. They pay for the government to do national security.

More botshit. Silicon is not a high value resource. That's why we sand streets in winter, and sandpaper is almost as cheap as dirt.

The private industry offshores because government makes production at home so inefficient that it covers shipping costs. Shipping gets a lot less reliable in wartime, and sometimes government repeals its own self-destructive bullshit too.

Private industry thinks in terms of natsec when it needs to in order to make a buck. It thinks in terms of tooling up for production in record time when it needs to in order to make a buck. When push comes to shove, We, the People shove government out of the way, and American Enterprise comes through. It has time after time, and when Government Intel fails us at the crucial moment (just like Government Motors and the Allison V-1710 engine did) that's what will happen again.

Provided "conservative" Republicans haven't piled on so many regulations that repealing them all will simply make it impossible to get government's fat ass out of the way in time.

History says you're full of bull, bot, and history has been batting a thousand so far.

 

[TheTexan]

According to AI, the P-51 Mustang would have likely never been built at all if it weren't for the Allison engine.

"Would the P-51 mustang would have existed if the allison engine had not been built?"

"The P-51 Mustang probably would not have existed in its famous form and at the critical moment if the Allison engine had not been built. At best, a similar design could have emerged later with Merlins (if the war had dragged on), but not on the same timeline."

"The P-51 Mustang, as designed and fielded in WWII, was fundamentally dependent on the existence of the Allison engine, at least as a starting point. Without it, the history of the Mustang—if it existed at all—would have been very different."

 

[acptulsa]

Let's see here, your best example you can give me, is an engine that went into service a year after the US entered the war?

You're basically making my argument for me.

Let's see here, the best example I can find of the government being proactive is an engine that didn't catch up to the competition until after we had won the war?

And we did win the war, not because of the Allison but in spite of it.

Your argument, the argument you are now making about Intel, nearly lost us that war. Packard didn't do their own design from the ground up because government was already in an incestuous relationship with GM. It could safely act only when the enemy proved that the government-GM partnership had totally screwed the pooch. And Packard then did not do too little, and did not do it too late.

If that's your argument, that the little Packard Motor Companies are more brilliant when they're shut out by corrupt government boondoggles that don't work until the last possible second, then make it yourself, because I certainly didn't say that. Who knows what the Packard effort might have looked like if the company had been able to confidently start their private venture effort sooner?

One thing's certain. If Intel can't cut it without government in the middle of their shit, they'll never be able to function with government all up in their shit.

 

[acptulsa]

According to AI...

Oh, shit. How can you read the bull from our resident bot and still be foolish enough to turn to a bot for "expertise"?

"Would the P-51 mustang would have existed if the allison engine had not been built?"

Faulty premise for the initial question. Why didn't you ask, "...if the Allison or some similar sized inline weren't available..."? Assuming that no one would have stepped up if the government and GM weren't squelching competition for their boondoggle is foolish. Packard stepped up with the Liberty Engine in WWI.

"The P-51 Mustang probably would not have existed in its famous form and at the critical moment if the Allison engine had not been built. At best, a similar design could have emerged later with Merlins (if the war had dragged on), but not on the same timeline."

AI is not only lacking enough imagination to realize that if the government and GM had not jumped on the project, someone else could and likely would have, but it doesn't realize how stupid it looks talking about "later designs with Merlins". If Rolls Royce could have built enough Merlins to spare, earlier, later, at all, of course American aircraft designers would have built around it. They would have done from the first.

"The P-51 Mustang, as designed and fielded in WWII, was fundamentally dependent on the existence of the Allison engine, at least as a starting point. Without it, the history of the Mustang—if it existed at all—would have been very different."

AI is stupid. I can't imagine an America which would have failed to produce a water cooled inline along the lines of what was already being done by Benz, Rolls and Hispano. Meanwhile, AI can't imagine anything at all.

 

[TheTexan]

Let's see here, the best example I can find of the government being proactive is an engine that didn't catch up to the competition until after we had won the war?

And we did win the war, not because of the Allison but in spite of it.

Your argument, the argument you are now making about Intel, nearly lost us that war. Packard didn't do their own design from the ground up because government was already in an incestuous relationship with GM. It could safely act only when the enemy proved that the government-GM partnership had totally screwed the pooch. And Packard then did not do too little, and did not do it too late.

If that's your argument, that the little Packard Motor Companies are more brilliant when they're shut out by corrupt government boondoggles that don't work until the last possible second, then make it yourself, because I certainly didn't say that. Who knows what the Packard effort might have looked like if the company had been able to confidently start their private venture effort sooner?

One thing's certain. If Intel can't cut it without government in the middle of their shit, they'll never be able to function with government all up in their shit.

You talk about the Allison like its a failure but it performed admirably and as posted above, it's the only reason the P-51 existed at all.

It was used throughout the early years of the war in more than just the P-51. Add up all the P-39's, P-40's, P-38's, and P-47's the Allison was used in 70-80% of Army fighters and 50-60% of all fighters total between 1941 and 1943.

You're idiotic if you think that didn't make a difference.